Kiwi_Roy

I guess you're horrified then by an electric fuel pump mounted inside the tank submerged in fuel Ciao Yea, brushes sparking away soaked in gas. How about the fuel sensor that gets red hot if you swap the petcock and sensor plugs that will really freak you out.

If the switch has too much resistance the ECU relay starts to drop out which plays havoc with the ECU and causes backfiring, next time it plays up flick the switch a few times to see if it changes. The switch on mine was quite easy to remove, 2 large screws up underneath, you just remove the black part, the key stays in situ. I told a friend to remove his and he found one of the wires had broken off. If you don't want to pull it off at least measure the contact resistance, Note 4 on the comic I posted back up a bit Disconnect battery negative, pull relay 3, measure Ohms from fuse 6 & 7 to contact 30 in the relay socket, I just went and checked mine, it read 1.5 Ohms and dropped to 1.1 after I worked it a couple of times, when this bike had symptoms similar to yours it read over 18 Ohms. It should measure To check the safety circuit If you have an electric petcock attach a small lamp from there to the chassis, tape it to the bars where you can see it while riding, it should never flicker, if it does there's the problem in the safety circuit. (Ignition switch, Sidestand circuit, kill switch)

The tach acting erratic tells me the reference Voltage to the regulator is also being effected (they use the same red/black wire from the headlight relay) Keep an eye on the headlight, and the tacho, if with another bike ride behind so they can spot any flickering. Make a dummy relay pin and check the relay base contacts are gripping the pins or they haven't slipped out the back. This could explain the charge light Loose contact in the headlight relay or bad relay results in low Voltage at the regulator reference (Black Wire) so the regulator thinks the battery is low and turns on charge light. Meanwhile the battery is possibly getting overcharged. If you get stuck take a hot wire from one of the switched fuses and run it forward to the male pin of the regulator black/white pair (leave the plug half in) This will ensure the reg sees the battery Voltage and back feed the tacho. I was looking at a bike last night, no tach, no headlight, it had a bad headlight relay, although you could hear it click it would only make intermittent contact, we also found one of the coil wires (ECU Relay) had slipped out the rear making intermittent contact.

What's wrong with it under the tank, just leave it there Less likely to get shorted out, besides it's the loom under the tank that smokes when the main ground gets loose.

Yes, it might get too hot, in the airbox it was cooled by the incoming air. I added longer wires and tied mine to the frame up at the front of the tank where it doesn't see radiated heat from the motor. I sent you a PM

I don't know. The 98 V11 EV I bought has a metal tank, same as the Jackal, those tanks have a recessed filler cap that fills with water (it's supposed to run out a little drain pipe but that plugs with rust), when you go to fill up the trapped water runs into the tank (you don't notice this happening) the water rusts the tank which plugs off the filter. Mine started to bog down on a hill, eventually it would barely run. I just back flushed it on the side of the road, the rust that came out was extremely fine like mud. A guy on the Wild Guzzi forum posted how to unblock the drain using a length of cable inner in a drill, it took all of 4 hours to get mine clear. I think the spine frame bikes all have plastic tanks but it might vary in other parts of the globe. I went back and added to the TPS comment Thanks for pointing it out Cheers Roy

I found mine runs better if I use the original intake rubbers as velocity stacks (you can see them in my signature) but it still runs ok with the pod filters straight on the bodies just a bit less power mid range. You could spend a ton of kiwijen's money finding all the original bits and it still runs like crap, what then? Hook onto the TPS wire and see what mV you get, key on but not running with the throttle closed (at idle position) and make sure it progresses smoothly from about 0.5 Volts to about 4.5 Volts as you open the throttle slowly. Check that the ECU circuit is not loosing Voltage thru a loose connection or bad contact while running. An easy way to do this is wire a small lamp from the petcock fuse to chassis. Have the lamp taped to the bars where you can safely monitor it while riding, If the bike starts to miss just make sure the lamp is still on steady. (if a previous owner has fitted a manual petcock it probably still has the fuse) With the bike running in gear, extend the side-stand, if it stops it still has the switch wired, they can be a problem. Measure the ignition switch contact resistance. Does it have a plastic or a metal tank? I ask because the metal ones rust which can cause the petcock filter and main filter to plug off and starve fuel at higher revs.

What you describe sounds very much like the symptoms of a dirty ignition switch or the side stand switch playing up. Next time it happens flick the ignition switch a few times if it improves it's the switch for sure. You can check it for resistance, see Note 4 of attached. It's easy to clean just drop the contacts off and you can unplug it just under the tank. If the side stand switch is still wired you can test bypass it by wrapping a strand of bare wire around the 30 and 87 pin of middle relay (TP-b to TP-c)

We are getting too far off topic, I deleted my last post

As you say the math is not that complex, it's finding the figures to work with. A quick search for "Motorcycle Battery Internal Resistance" came up empty. When I say it's Actually the instantaneous charge current is limited to whatever the alternator can produce, somewhere over 40 I think. The Ducati Energia cannot restrict the current it just decides whether to fire the SCR or not. I think when the regulator Voltage was set at 13.8V Guzzi were allowing for the Voltage drop (~0.5) to give a charge Voltage ~14.3. They sense the battery Voltage after the headlight relay because it's open when the key is off, the regulator draws quite a few milliamps which would flatten the battery over several days. If headlight relays are added direct from the battery you lose the benefit of the Voltage drop so now the battery instead of reaching over 14.2 only charges to 13.8 The Voltage can be boosted back up by changing the trim resistor or adding some voltage drop in series with the black wire, a diode will add 0.6, a resistor in series is another option. Another way of boosting the headlight is to add a single relay downstream of the existing one with N/C to one filament N/O to the other, this leaves the Volt drop in place. There are several ways the Ducati Energia could be re-wired but I prefer to upgrade the regulator with a more modern design wired direct to the battery.

A better option is to upgrade the regulator to one directly connected to the battery as per a modern Guzzi I now now have an Electrosport ESR-10 Hubert, I must confess I'm mathmaticaly challenged but the current flow into a cell once it has achieved full Voltage is a function of applied Voltage over cell resistance. ( If the reg thinks the battery is low it never gets a break. The actual current is limited by what the alternator will produce, spikes exceeding 30 Amps which may account for the way the fuse holder overheats. The regulator just thinks the battery is low because of too much Voltage drop through less than perfect contacts, in fact it may be overcharged. If you have a better theory as to why so many Ducati Energias fail, I'm all ears.

You may wonder why the battery Voltage is higher with the engine running and lights ON Its because the headlight current creates a Voltage drop between the battery and the point that the regulator is tied to (half way along under the tank). The regulator is set to control the Voltage at it's Black wire to the regulator case at 13.8 V I have measured over 0.5 Volts drop as shown. So for the regulator to see 13.8 it has to pump 13.8 + 0.5 = 14.3 Volts into the battery. With the lights OFF you get zero Voltage drop so the regulator now sees the battery is too high and cuts back. If you measure the Voltage drop as I show then remove and replace the 2 relays you will likely find it drops down a bit because in moving the relays you scrub the pins a bit to get a better contact. IMHO it's this flaky voltage drop that causes the relays to cook themselves, they think the battery is too low and keep pumping current pulses until the diodes melt their leads off. Charge current vs Battery Voltage is some sort of exponential relationship. Other Guzzis wire the headlight relay differently, just the coil goes through the start relay. I can't explain the undulation you see but make sure the battery terminals and main ground are clean with some vaseline to stop oxidization. Please check your relay wiring, if the fuse feeding the headlight relay goes through the ignition switch like most other Guzzis there's a whole different can of worms.

The charge light picks up 12 Volts downstream of the headlight relay very close to the spot where the regulator gets a Voltage reference. At that point the regulator holds the Voltage to about 13.8 Volts but the battery is a good half Volt or more higher depending on the headlight draw.. So when you turned off the headlight the Voltage would shoot up by at least half a volt, more if you are running a larger headlight. This may not be the explanation. We don't have light switches here so I can't duplicate it. Check the ground as Docc says, I know of several bikes where it was under the seat release lock leading to a melt down on cranking.

I find with mine there is too much slop in the throttle linkage for the one stop method, I tried, it gave ma a different revs each time Now I use both A quick and dirty way from here is just wind in the right hand stop until it makes contact with the throttle, now it will always come back to the same spot

You can say that again, I have been messing with batteries for 50 years and I still see the odd surprising symptom. Emry summed it up well Yes 10 Amps at key on 40 - 50 amps the split second you press start 150 - 170 Amps while cranking for the Valeo (actual measurements)

Are we to assume you do the compression test with wide open throttle? A slight unbalance of the throttle bodies will make a huge difference if the throttle is in idle position, a common mistake. I've seen a lot worse looking pistons.

You are probably right but just for the hell of it check your two yellow wires for tight connections. Take the cover off and check the connections where the yellow wires are soldered to the windings, mine at 80k km were holding by just one strand. The sea air being a little salty may be causing the light to track to ground, it has + 12 Volts on one side. Of course Luigi put the regulator in the best spot, exposed to water and road salt, the Aluminium to Steel in a salty environment is certain is to corrode, all of the current to the battery has to make it's way back through there. If you don't have a ground strap add one, the regulator has a black wire from it's case back to the battery but that is not man enough for the job.

Onibaka, "And all the time are heated fuss for accumulator" Are you are saying the 30 Amp fuse (22) melting (the plastic is melting)? That is caused by loose clips holding the fuse, there is resistance in the contacts, this causes the fuse to get very hot and melt the plastic. This is a very common fault with the V11 Sport. Polish the fuse with some fine sandpaper and try to bend the clips to make them stronger Many people remove the fuse altogether or use a different type with large clips. For example this Guzzi has no charging fuse http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2000_Bassa.gif Someone please add a link to the "Maxi" fuse. Roy

The charge light is turned on by the regulator switching a transistor (brown wiring) I'm not 100% sure but I think it turns off when the battery is up enough that the regulator starts skipping pulses. Often the 30 Amp fuse will melt due to a bad connection (loose fuse clips) rather than blow due to too much current, look to see if the plastic is discoloured.

You might be able to make a resistor work, but what value would you use? It needs to be low enough to supply maximum Voltage to the thermistor but not so low it draws too much current when uncovered. The lamp (bulb) on the other hand is low resistance when cold but high when the thermistor is uncovered and heats up. The lamp should last a very long time because it's not subjected to thermal shock just a gentle change in Voltage up to about 10 Volts. BTW on the earlier bikes if you accidentally swapped the petcock and sensor cables this puts 12 Volts directly on the sensor, it's ok while the tank is full but if uncovered the thermistor will become red hot in seconds and fuse, It doesn't set the fuel on fire because it's inside a metal jacket with just a very small slit to the tank. The connectors on later bikes are keyed to prevent this.

The dash looks good, brings it into the 21st century Does it also include the idiot lights? Never mind, I see http://www.translogicusa.com/micro-dash.php Having a Volt meter is a big plus Did you have any trouble getting the fuel sensor to work?

Just get the type with the tab and tie them all together with a scrap of metal Thanks for the link SP838, I have been looking for those for ages How do you match up the two sizes of terminals required? Crimp tool? Make a little release tool like you see in the tray to release the contact from the base.

The Pump is running so the juice is getting as far as the ECU Next in line are Start Button, Clutch Switch, Start relay, Bullet connectors as others have pointed out. (shown as -->>-- -- Fuse 5 may be gone if you can hear the relay click. Pull the relay and stuff a short wire into the socket 30 - 87, it should crank, if not try a jumper between the solenoid trigger terminal and the large hot one. There's no need to be stranded on a V11 Sport because it won't crank, they are easy to push start.

I don't know the answer to that, it's over a year since I set mine up and I need re-training after a coffee break. It will be pretty obvious if you have it wrong and dead easy to change.

Pete, I wasn't on here when the slop plate was introduced. I did a search on here without results. I thought it was only to prevent the pump starving, I must confess I was having a hard time visualizing that since it's so high up on top of the sump extender. I never thought it might be for high level also. Does it let you run with more oil so you never approach starvation? I know mine looses pressure just above the low mark, with a plate do you re-mark the dip stick? Which Guzzi models does this apply to, just the V11 & LeMans of others like the California also? Regards Roy Update: Never mind, I found the thread in the How to section.