Kiwi_Roy

The small arc seems to have done something. Would you by any chance while doing up the positive terminal flashed your wrench onto the ECU. You must always disconnect the Negative terminal first and reconnect it last, that way you cannot short the battery. I helped another owner who had flashed to the ECU, this had overheated the ground wire which melted and shorted a few other wires inside the loom to ground, luckily the wire doesn't go too far and he was able to repair the damage with tape.

From front Start Relay, Headlight Relay, Sidestand Relay, ECU Relay, Power Relay (fuel pump, coils & injectors) at least that's the way on my bike Pull the headlight relay it will go out but the bike will still start Pull the start relay and headlight will go out but won't start I suggest you get a strip of aluminium and drill 5 holes to tie all the relays together.

It's not correct to call a relay NO or NC, but you can say the contact is NO or NC, you sometimes see it called form "C" Yes, energized when the coil is powered up then the NO contact closes and the NC contact opens http://www.ni.com/white-paper/4782/en/ They don't show the coil, the same terminology is also applied to switches. The Mouser datasheet says 20/10, just the same as the Digikey one. so they are miss-leading you. On page 2 under Contact Data, I quote "Inrush 60 A (NO), 30 A (NC), steady 20 A (NO), 10 A (NC)" It's the steady state that you are interested in. The start relay has a spike of about 50 Amps and the headlight relay would spike also until the filament heats up Nothing on the bike would pull over 10 Amps

The contacts are referred to as Normally Open or Normally Closed with no power on the coil http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif If you look at the schematic the start relay uses both contacts, the N/C contact feeds the headlight relay, the N/O contact feeds the starter solenoid. The headlight relay uses the N/O contact, I think you are confused because the headlight relay is normally energized and the N/O contact is closed. Don't feel bad, us sparkies get it wrong all the time.

I couldn't find the right part No before, here it is for sure http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=-987&y=-73&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=z2247-ND The dual rating 20/35 means 20 Amps for normally closed / 35 Amps for Normally open, I suspect this is because the contact pressure is higher with the coil pulling the N/O contact closed. The ones I bought are 20/10 but they have a 60 Amp inrush which is more than enough for the high starter solenoid current Yes, I'm using the G8HN-1C2T-R-DC12, I wish they were smart enough to put an LED in them so you could tell when they are on, I put LEDs in the relay bases of my V11 Sport wired from the 87 contact to chassis, it was the best improvement I ever made. http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/Kiwi_Roy/slideshow/Relay%20LEDs For it to come on the coil has to be energized and the 87 contact closed. You can see in the last two shots the little tool I made to release the contacts from the base. BTW, if you are going to order from Digikey I suggest you get a couple of CH-290-ND, these are not the exact match but they will replace the microswitch in your clutch/brake lever http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=CH290-ND If you need to fix your relay bases here's how to get them apart. http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/RelayBaseRepair_zps8809f6c1.jpg Before installing the relays I wipe the base with a little Vaseline to help avoid corrosion.

Funny this topic should come up, I just purchased 10 Omron relays from Digikey.com I like to start with a new set for a new bike, 5 for my bro in Auckland http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=-987&y=-73&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=z2247-ND The last time I bought relays the Omrons were made in USA This batch was made in Italy of all places I have never had a relay fail, but I'm sure they do, I use the old relays for projects like headlight relays etc. Really you should never be stuck on the road for lack of a relay. The headlight relay is not necessary, the Interlock relay can be jumped out and the start relay can also be jumped across. The only two I wouldn't mess with are the two associated with the ECU. I helped a young guy with a Jeep recently, it had similar relays.

I did a schematic a while back and somewhere have a bunch of pictures. As an apprentice we overhauled lots of starters and generators for our workmates, mainly old Brit cars. It was quite a surprise to open a Valeo and find a shunt motor with gearbox, the Bosch is a series and more conventional. I help a lot of guys on a different forum with Startus Interuptus issues caused by too much resistance in the solenoid wiring, It would like to draw 50 Amps through the start relay. Nudemetalz wrote "It's like a big radial off a Corsair or B-17 starting" This is because the Valeo is a fairly constant speed (shunt-like) motor, as it speeds up the field causes it to generate a Voltage opposing the battery so it reaches a maximum speed, it also has a reduction gearbox to get enough torque. The Bosch (series motor) speeds up, the current thru the field drops, it doesn't generate so much and gets even faster. In theory a series motor unloaded will wind up until it flys to bits. In earlier days railway locomotives used series motors because of the high torque and speed characteristics. Valeo Starter.pdf Bosch Starter.pdf

Yes, the white wire does ground the lamp through an electronic switch, you disconnected the white wire and the light went out so it's the regulator that's holding it to ground to warn you it's not charging properly. Check all the connections between the alternator and battery, look for signs of excessive heat Remove the cover off the alternator and check where the wires solder to the coils, they get brittle and break eventually. Since it came on all of a sudden it could well be a bad ground or loose connection to the battery, remove the terminals, scrape the posts and add some Vaseline. Do you have a different battery you could try or another bike to try this one in? Perhaps the ESR510 has gone tits up. Depending on how long you've had it Electrosport might give you a break on a new one. Update You could try measuring the Voltage at the end of the regulators red and green wires, I'm just wondering if you have some resistance between there and the battery. It might prove interesting to put the battery on a charger to see if the Voltage goes higher, just in case there's something wrong there. I was so paranoid about getting a direct connection to the battery I mounted the regulator under the tank and extended the yellow wires. You can afford to loose several Volts on the upstream side but any on the downstream side will result in a lower battery. The regulator senses the Voltage internally between the red and green wires, I suspect that's why they dropped the fuse, to get a better connection.

I have noticed the charge lamp works differently on these, it needs more revs to go out. Is it possible the white wire has become grounded between the lamp and the regulator? Try disconnecting it at the regulator and the lamp should go out. I tried to get Electrosport to share the schematic of the regulator but they are very cagey (I can't fault them for that) they told me it's somewhere between a series and shunt regulator. The Ducati works by breaking the circuit, most bikes short out the alternator. I'm not sure that the diode check works with their regulator, I don't have a good feel for the insides. Is it possible your Voltmeter is reading something other than the battery Voltage e.g. downstream of the ignition switch or a relay, I would check it at the battery terminals with a multimeter. http://www.electrosport.com/ducati-single-phase-regulatorrectifier.html Some of their documentation leaves a little to be desired, it shows a fuse but doesn't come with one and the wires are too short to reach the battery Have you asked Electosport if they will test it for you, I imagine they would be anxious to help out. http://www.electrosport.com/contact/

I suggest you write out a specification and fire it off to speedhut, they let you customize the gauges in other ways. Using the filters is a bit tricky, you can back into a corner in just a few clicks of the mouse. http://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Gauges-Only/39:1 http://www.speedhut.com/gauges/ Perhaps a dual gauge without any lights supplemented by some nice LEDs. I glued the LEDs flush directly into the panel. In hindsight I would have added the falcon graphic, all they need is a digital image.

This idea went down like a lead balloon over on the other site I post Let see if it floats here The light will flicker or dim if you have a bouncing sidestand or bad switch contact. I prefer to use a 12 Volt LED for this, they are easy to see in bright sunlight if pointing in the general direction of your eye This is not intended as a permanent installation just string the wire across the tank to the fusebox. If you don't have an electric petcock wrap the wire around the relay pin. I haven't shown any detail of the ECU circuit because that wiring is very reliable.

The reason I say HL is so it passes most of the Voltage on to the flasher circuit, you could try using a smaller lamp if you take the indicator bulbs out. Just borrow the lamp out of your headlight and use a couple of jumper wires.

Possibly a wire chafed through where it enters a light or passes through a fender, does it always fuse on one side? Does it fuse while they are operating or do you find they don't work when you go to use them? Lastly which bike are you referring to? It's pretty hard to find an intermittent fault sometimes especially when it's short blowing fuses. This is an old electricians trick Replace the fuse with a high Wattage lamp (headlight bulb). The lamp when cold will supply enough current to work the flashers. As you wiggle the wires around and create a short it will light up and you will quickly zero in on the fault with no risk of letting out the magic smoke.

Speedhut is what I used, they allow you to configure the gauge to your fancy, needles, colours, font, graphic etc. They set the odo to match my failed Veglia I built my own sensor that fits in the gearbox. http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/Guzzi%20Dash/CIMG5019_zpsf8294390.jpg They have combination gauges as well The works are stepper motor, microprocessor or GPS based

I have tried several times to grease the front joint in-situ however I end up dropping the shaft and rear forks right out, it's not a big job. You need to be careful when re-installing the pinch bolts, if the holes aren't lined up with the shaft indent the shaft will chew up the bolt threads. I like the idea of cutting another window, I will try that next time. Roy

I find with my V11 Sport at 80+k the idle inconsistency is caused by slop in the linkages, the RH throttle doesn't come back to the same spot twice therefore as part of the procedure I adjust both idle stops so the screws are touching equally then trim the balance with the air bleeds. This works better for me at any rate.

I don't see how an ECU setting will make it idle fast, it could make it idle rich or lean but in my understanding the idle speed is determined by how much air it can suck in. Throttle stops and bleed screws unless you have a leak in the intake rubbers Do you have small rubber hoses attached between the two intakes, perhaps extra air is getting in there I have a MyECU also

If the black wire is cut I'm thinking you must have an after market regulator The originals have Ducati Energia stamped on them, they need the black wire to work Look at the one you have and see if there is a make/model on it Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders for 90 years Roy

By the sounds of it you do have a loose connection. Check the 30 Amp fuse clip to see if it's not loose and heating. Check where the yellow wires are soldered to the alternator coil, they break off with age, easy fixed. The regulator relies on the headlight circuit for a Voltage reference, the Black wire of the Black/White pair taps in between the headlight relay and the headlight. As Moto Fugazzi says, it's very important to have a good ground on the regulator body because all the current has to pass back through the ground. Any Voltage drop there is lost to the battery. I suggest a short wire between the reg and a timing cover screw, add a bit of Vaseline to stop corrosion. I used to think the regulators on these bikes were ok but I finally gave in and bought an Electrosport ESR510 for mine. It's directly connected to the battery so it doesn't suffer from stray voltage drop or bad contacts. It doesn't come with the fuse shown in the picture and the charge light acts a little different but so far it's been good. http://www.electrosport.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=esr510 If you wonder why I went that way rather than the recommended direct replacement, I wanted to get away from the bikes reliance on the headlight circuit reference. These regulators are made in China but when I asked they told me Electrosport own the factory there.

The relay bases do build up resistance just sitting, I like to use Vaseline on the relay pins, I think this wards off corrosion. Another problem is the little connectors spread with constant relay shuffling, I doubt many relays fail but if you swap them out it gives the contact a scrape to get a better contact for a while. Here's how you can remove the connectors and tighten them. The relays are a common style made by many manufacturers I get mine from www.digikey.com part No Z2247-ND, these are an Omron part No G8HN-1C2TR DC12 http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=19&y=17&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=z2247-nd

Yes - are those what I show as ->>- 1,2 & 3 - on the diagram? It's worth tightening those for sure,

The clutch switch and timing sensor won't stop the pump priming Check the Safety Circuit Pull the sidestand relay and check for Voltage at the top pin (30), if you don't see 12V on 30 it's probably the Ignition Switch, sometimes it's just the grease gone hard with age or I have known the wires to snap off where they are soldered to the switch, it comes off with a couple of screws from underneath. Then assuming you still have the sidestand switch check the next contact down, the Voltage should come and go as you work the stand. Then put the relay back and pull relay 4, you should get Voltage on one of the small coil pins which will come and go as you work the Kill switch. Of course it goes without saying you must have 12V on the top pin of relay 4 and 5.

I noticed that too, any time you are less than about 2000 revs it's probably loosing ground so the lights telling the truth, 13.3 Volts is less than fully charged. The alternator puts out a high frequency, (7 x rpm/60) or 466 Hz at 4000 revs, at around 13 Volts the lights switching on and off so rapidly it appears to just glow. I asked Electrosport if they would share the schematic with me but they declined, I was curious to see how it differs from the Ducati The new regulator doesn't have a ground as such but the battery negative is the same thing. One side of the bikes charge light is positive and the white wire pulls the other side to ground (battery negative).

I really like the gauges from I bought Speedhut ~$300 for the pair, no more flakey cables for me. http://www.speedhut.com/gauges/Tachometers-3-3-8-inch-Gauges-Only/1:2%7C37:3%7C39:1 Try selecting a gauge then customizing it with needle type, colours and graphics, you will see what I mean. My only regret, I didn't take the time to upload the Guzzi Eagle Roy

There is no reason for the relays to get hot, they only dissipate about 1.2 Watts in the coil and they are rated for 50-60 Amps however if the relay base is loose the current will quickly heat the start relay up. For example if you were loosing 6 Volts across bad contacts the starter solenoid current would be much less say 25 Amps, 25 x 6 = 150 Watts so you can see there is some serious heat there. As a backup until you get the bike sorted I would get familiar with hot wiring the starter all it takes is a wire from the small spade trigger terminal to touch on the battery terminal or the large post on the starter and it will crank over (the bike must be in Neutral or with the clutch in so you don't rocket off). At the very least this will check out the starter.