Kiwi_Roy

If you were to take the alternator cover off and put a white paint mark on the crcumference of the magnet under a flourescent light it should appear stationary at 3,000 1,500 or 750 RPM For 3 marks spaced 120° apart they would show in sequence at 1,000 RPM A single tube flourescent is best for this. (no - this doesn't apply to Nth America )

Heres drawing I posted before. It shows how you can check a lot of the wiring from under the seat I can't claim it works for every V11, some are wired differently but you get the idea I hope. Test Point Layout.pdf The headlight supply on my 2001 is switched by the start relay, on others the start relay only switches the headlight relay coil Pulling the ECU plug allows you to check from there most of the attached components like the TPS and thermistors. Be sure the key is off before you unplug the ECU ECU Test Points.pdf

... Roy, I really don't think that quoting others correctly would have any negative effect on what you want to say. That's an important thing if you want to stay properly grounded I say. Hubert Sorry Hubert, I didn't re-write what you had written, just abreviated it a bit. I get a bit carried away sometimes when I get on my hobby horse. It's back in full. Roy

Hubert, I agree with this, right out of the factory the regulator get's grounded to the horn bracket, the horn bracket gets grounded to the frame (not that Luigi cleans the paint off to make a good connection). Ten years down the road however the regulator case is a little corroded, the bolts a little loose and the brackets starting to rust so now it has to rely on that tiny black wire to the battery negative terminal. Just think about it, the same current that flows through the fat red wire and 30 Amp fuse to the battery Positive has to pass back through the tiny ground wire, why are the wires different size? It's actually much worse for the ground, even the slightest resistance between the regulator case and the battery negative and you loose Voltage, for example 0.1 Ohms is enough to drop half a Volt at the battery. The Positive wire could drop a Volt or two and you would never know about it. The regulator also suffers from sensing the Voltage after the headlight relay at a point about half a Volt lower than the battery, any additional drop such as a dirty relay contact and it's likely to overcharge and cook itself. Add headlight relays wired from the battery and it will under-charge because it's been set to expect the Voltage drop. All I advocate is a short wire between the regulator case and a timing cover screw, from there it's like a super highway back to the battery. The Ducati Energias set the Voltage at the regulator, not at the battery. If you look at the modern Guzzis the regulator is wired directly to the battery, positive and negative. Rather than replace a failed Ducati I would go with something modern, I predict they won't have nearly the same failures the old ones do.

Trevini may be onto something, I have no experience other than the Ducati one. Can you tell us what the battery Voltage is? The ECU has nothing to do with battery charging however if the voltage is too low it might cause it to missbehave, you can easily check that, I know for certain if the Voltage is very high it shuts the bike down to protect itself. Measure from the ECU case to the the fuse that supplies the ECU to the ECU case also from ECU case to pin 2 of the diagnostic connector, that should be zero Volts Do you have a ground wire to the case of the ECU, pull it off and make sure it's actually connected - Ohms to chassis. You still haven't explained why the headlight went out before. Have you checked the 30 Amp fuseholder for a tight grip on the fuse, that's a known problem, check for voltage drop between the regulator red wire and the battery + terminal. I assume you have cleaned the battery terminals and checked the ground connection behind the seat release key. Measure your charging current Simple Meter Shunt.pdf Sorry, I guess your wire sizes are different, if so I'll tell you how to figure the length. If your meter has a 10 Amp range you might be able to read it directly, typically about 9 Amps from memory, you can measure that in series with the regulator red wire or pull the 30 Amp fuse and connect your meter there. HOLD THE PRESS - you have cleaned your ignition switch contacts, that was a problem for mine, made the bike really hairy missing etc. I think the ECU relay was chattering. Flick the switch off and on a few times to see if it improves.

Don't loose it, they are expensive little suckers

Just another thought. I think your new regulator will solve the problem but I still have a nagging thought about the headlight going out. If the headlight relay drops out the regulator looses the power it needs to turn on the SCRs. BTW at the black wire you should read ~ 13.8V while back at the battery it will read ~14.3 - 14.5 this is because there's about 0.6 Volts drop between battery and the point where the regulator connects, this is caused by the headlight current. If the headlight bulb is removed from the circuit you loose the benefit of the voltage drop. Adding headlight relays powered by a new fuse from the battery makes for brighter headlights but weaker charging. I talked another rider with headlight relays into adding a diode to the reference circuit, this boosted his battery back up to just over 14V I rode around for a few days with my multimeter strapped to the tank connected to the black regulator wire, later I swapped it for a 12V LED taped to the steering damper bracket. I finally convinced myself it was the regulator, that's when I pulled it apart to discover the melted diode lead. I also figured out how the regulator works, see attached. Voltage Regulator.pdf

It seems as though you have checked all the usual suspects but just as a reminder; Your earlier post talks about the headlight failing, if you are riding with someone ask them to watch in the rear view for a while. As I said earlier No headlight might mean the headlight relay's dropped out = no charging. You checked the connections where the yellow wires solder onto the alternator coils? You added a proper ground strap, that's good, keep it with the new regulator. After the bike has been running for a while check the 30 Amp fuse (if you have one) sometimes they get a poor connection and overheat. It seems as though your diodes are ok so perhaps it is toast. If it's still working but just low in Voltage by adding a diode in series with the black wire you can fool it into thinking the battery is low and it will boost it up by another 0.6 Volts. Good luck with your new regulator, be sure to post the results it all adds to the accomulated knowledge. Cheers Roy

The ECU setting in the FAQ section is quite easy to follow As for setting the throttle bodies You can make a manometer with about 10 ft of 1/4" plastic hose , 3 ft of wood and some engine oil I used 6mm grease nipples with the ball and spring removed to attach the manometer to the throttle body. Sorry, 2 beers too many

Check for 12 Volts at the regulator's black wire (of the black/white pair) with the key on. This is the reference line from the battery it also supplies the power to make the regulator work and the tacho supply. Your earlier post talks about the headlight failing, the black regulator wire just happens to be fed from the headlight relay so no power to the headlight could also mean no charging. For that reason if you pull the headlight relay thinking you will save the battery you are defeating the purpose. Check the relay base contacts to make sure they have a tight grip on the pins, any resistance in this circuit can lead to overcharging and a smoked regulator. My bike suffered from weak charging when I first bought it, this turned out to be one of the diodes inside letting go, have you tested yours yet? There is a simple (if not pretty) fix.

Now all you have to do is figure out why the fuse blew Perhaps the clip is not holding the fuse tightly enough causing it to overheat and melt rather than blow (this happened to mine) Check also the headlight relay socket is tight, if there's too much resistance there the system will overcharge because it senses the Voltage down stream of the relay. BTW any special headlights, driving lights etc don't add them to the headlight load, use a separate supply. And the starter motor - there-s nothing too much can go wrong there unless it's a Valeo and the magnets have dropped off, perhaps it just needs some new brushes.

Andy, It will take you 5 minutes to add a ground to the regulator. The regulator is bolted to the horn bracket, the horn bracket to the chassis and neither have been prepared to act as a ground. Over the past 12 years I'm sure the connection through this nefarious path on your bike has deteriorated somewhat. The factory provides a small black wire, I think it goes all the way back to the battery but this is way too small for the heavy current flowing. (the Positive wire is quite fat with a 30 Amp fuse so why does Luigi think all that current can get back through a tiny black wire?) Actually the ground wire is even more important for the following The regulator doesn't regulate the battery voltage directly, all it does is look at the Voltage between it's black wire (of the black white pair) and it's case If this Voltage is if the Voltage > 13.8 turn the charging Off So you can see if there is a resistance in the ground, even 0.2 Ohms the Voltage drop at 30 Amps (0.2 x 30 = 6) gives the regulator a false idea of where the battery is at charge wise. You could loose several Volts in the positive wire and it would have almost no effect. Just run a short wire from a holding bolt to one of the timing cover screws, the engine is a better path than any copper wire. Scrape the metal and add a bit of grease to prevent corrosion. Also, if you have a multimeter with a diode test range check between each of the regulator yellow to red wires, both should read ~0.5 Volts, if one is open circuit you only get half the available charging. And finally, take the plastic cover off your alternator and inspect where the yellow wires are soldered to the coils, they break off there sometimes. The alternator is a very simple device, unless you see obvious sign of burning don't replace it and expect a fix.

You should be able to pick up a repair kit from an auto parts store

I don't know why the neutral light is coming on unless you are riding in the rain and it's tracking across. As for the charge light it's crucial to have a good ground on the regulator. Just take about 8 inches of wire and run it from the regulator case to an engine bolt. Trust me, the tiny wire the factory provided has too much resistance. Sometimes one of the diodes inside the regulator lets go but try the grounding first.

Chuck wrote "Believe it or not, it's on the transmission. In the back on the left side" When you find it with the key On short the terminal to ground. This should make the lamp turn on checking out the wiring. I haven't had one apart but apparently the switches are just a crude metal contact. The lampholders in my dash were a problem, you have to have the right lamp base (wire on one side only or they cause a short circuit, I ended up replacing the lamps with LEDs I just soldered onto the wires. The oil pressure switches are also very un-reliable, they open ok but can't be relied on to close again. The last one I bought only lasted a couple of weeks. LED Panel Lamps.pdf Have Fun Roy

My alternator only has two wires, I'm not sure what you mean by 2 remaining legs. It works with a full wave bridge rectifier consisting of 4 diodes it's just that two of them are controlled. See the drawing I attached a few posts back. It's neither, Y or Delta refer to a 3 phase winding as most bikes and cars have. The Guzzi is a single phase 7 pole alternator (7 pairs that is). Roy

Can I run a ground wire in addition to the one that is already there, or do I need to remove the existing one? That's your choice, I just left mine in place. Most of the current will travel from battery negative thru the main fat ground wire to the chassis, thru the engine (aluminium is a very good conductor) to your new strap and to the regulator case. How the Regulator works Inside the regulator are 2 diodes between the yellow alternator wires and the red wire that goes to the battery and 2 SCRs (Silicon Controlled Rectifiers) connected between the case and the yellow wires. Each time one of the yellow wires goes Positive the current passes thru one of the diodes to the battery + terminal. From the battery - terminal the current passes back thru the chassis to the regulator case then thru one of the SCRs back to the other alternator yellow wire. When the regulator thinks the battery Voltage is high enough it just stops turning on the SCRs This all happens 14 times for each revolution of the motor. If you were able to watch the current flow you would see it as a series of half wave pulses with gaps every now and then where the regulator decides the Voltage is high enough. A schematic I drew when I had mine apart Regulator Schematic - With Notes.pdf

Yes, the original ground wire is shown going back to the battery, this wire is next to useless, it's way too small for the 30+ Amp pulses the alternator puts out. Usually the regulator gets grounded by accident to the horn bracket then from horn bracket to chassis. Look at the big red wire from the regulator, that same current has to come back through the ground. Any Voltage loss between the battery negative and the regulator case is subtracted from the charge Voltage because the regulator doesn't care what the battery is, it just sets the Voltage between it's black wire to it's case at ~13.8. From your low Voltage readings in a previous post I think you will notice a big difference in your battery Voltage with a proper ground. All you need is about 8" of #14 wire from a regulator mounting bolt to a timing cover screw or as gstallions says the coil mount. Scrape the metal of the regulator to get a good contact and apply a little grease to stop it corroding. Less than a 1 beer job BTW, going back through the engine is less resistance than running a wire back direct.

Just a minor point, as you are putting the drive shaft back together be careful to line the pinch bolt hole with the indent in the shaft. If you don't the bolt will get chewed badly. I had to replace my bolts because the PO didn't take care. As far as lining up the swingarm pivots about all you can do is make it with the same number of threads exposed on each side.

I have never tried it myself but one way of checking for an air leak is to pass an unlit propane torch around the intake. Any leak will suck in propane and make the engine speed up. Do this outdoors of course. How many miles(km) on your bike, I would expect the throttle bodies to last at least 80,000 kM before wear is an issue. Hopefully someone with a lot more experience than I will speak up.

Have you tried adjusting the idle stops with the little allen grub screws in the throttle bodies? They show clearly in this topic Frequently Asked Questions - TPS Setup and Throttle Balance Tuning You start with the screws backed right out Is it possible the fast idle cam is holding the throttle open?

The loose connector under the tank seems to be a common problem, mine did it for a while but it came right before I got motivated to fix it. Depending on the way the bike is wired, some bikes power the start relay through the ignition switch, that's a problem waiting to happen, the starter solenoid wants to draw about 50 Amps for a split second while it engages the gear, any resistance in the circuit and it has dificulty. To tell if it's wired through the switch pull the relay and measure for voltage at the socket pin 30 (the one off by itself) with the ignition switch Off. The best wiring IMHO is where the 30 contact is wired direct thru a fuse from the battery. Note: The starter draws 50 Amps through a 15 Amp fuse but not long enough to blow it. With age the grease in the switch goes hard and it tends to take pressure off the contacts so they don't make a good contact, your bike is at an age where the switch should be cleaned and the grease replaced with fresh petroleum jelly aka Vaseline. The same applies to the other handlebar switches, you will be surprised how much easier they operate with fresh vaseline. Don't use any solvents in the switches, some contact cleaners are dynamite on plastic parts.

I'm pleased to report we were able to sort out Steve's immaculate LeMans, what a beauty We found the TPS set very high, about 300 mV but it looked as though it had never been tampered with yellow paint in the fixing screws. Steve has fitted a mixture indicator which came back into line once the throttle bodies were all lined up as per Dlaing method on the FAQ She ticks over like a Swiss watch. The bike is in good hands with her new owner, obviously very fussy about having things just so.

I believe you open the air bypass screws to adjust the idle, both by the same amount. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12204

You should have 5 Volts DC across the TPS. If you unplug it you can test the resistance as shown. Roy ECU Test Points.pdf