Kiwi_Roy

Heres a simple meter shunt you can make with a scrap of wire. This can be used to measure the starter or perhaps the charging current. Simple Meter Shunt.pdf

Or you could buy one of Cliff's excelent "MyECU" kits, then you can let it self tune. Roy

The clutch and front brake switches are a standard size, I am using one I picked up at Radio Shack, it had a little roller arm on it which I removed. Better switches (waterproof)are made by "Cherry" available fron www.digikey.com part No CH290-ND $4.56 EA The wire connections are different, just solder the wires on. Digikey also have Omron relays Z2247-ND @ $4.59 EA to replace the stock ones Roy OOPs, they have gone up in price, but still cheap.

I think the recommended way of finding a leak is to wave a propane bottle around until you see a change in revs when it sucks in the gas. I haven't tried this though. Not lit of course. My bike stalls also when hot, idles away nicely then suddenly kicks back, I'm told it is a sign of a weak timing chain tensioner. As soon as I can I will look at the timing mark with a strobe light, I'm sure it's firing early ever 100 cycles or so causing it to try and reverse direction. Let me know if you find a cause. Roy

It's pretty well a direct replacement for the stock unit. I just took a look at mine, 2001 V11 Sport. it is in the uppermost position and by the looks of it could be set at least 1-1/2" lower by shortening (screwing in) the pushrod and rotating the stop cam in front of foot-peg.

I was pointing out that with the original wiring the regulator takes care of the headlight voltage at the expense of the battery because it's reference (black wire) is connected to the headlight circuit after the relay. The wiring on my bike is in fairly good condition, I took some measurements last night. With the addition of headlight relays the load on the original headlight circuit drops significantly, from 4.3 Amps to 0.22 Amps. Without headlight relays I measured 0.45 Volts drop at the black wire of regulator, with headlight relays it was only 0.05 Volts. Without headlight relays the regulator will charge the battery up to 14.45 Volts, with relays it will charge the battery up to 14 Volts. Now if your headlight relay wiring is not in good condition, say a loose contact at one of the bases the regulator might way over-charge the battery. The Charging Voltage / Charging Current of a lead acid battery is not a linear relationship so the current (average) goes sky high eventually destroying the regulator and possibly the battery. Some Guzzis (not the V11) have the headlight relay fed from the ignition switch, this is terrible IMHO. Headlight relays not only improve your lights they also improve the battery regulation.

The reason I asked the question about headlight relays. The regulator is connected to the headlight circuit (after the headlight relay) With original wiring and bad connection Voltage is lost in the wiring between battery Positive terminal and the headlight relay. The regulator thinks the battery is low and cranks up the charging to compensate. The headlight sees normal Voltage, the battery is overcharged. With headlight relays powered directly from the battery the lights will go bright as the battery is overcharged. Either way eventualy something will fail, probably the regulator. It's quite ok to see a moderate increase in brightness from idle to high revs as the battery goes from 12 - 14 Volts but any significant increase should be investigated.

In my experience with old Brit bikes the valve will burn away before the seat because it is cooler. If you can lap in the old valve or a new one there's no reason the bike shouldn't run for years. My buddy has a pair of 70s KZ bikes that have never been touched with about 70k on the odo.

Glad you are back on the road. Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders for 90 years

Bruce, 12 Volts goes directly from Fuse 1 to Relay 4 contact 30, it also goes to pin 17 of the ECU plug. Since you are missing voltage at both points I suspect you may have burnt the wire off between the fuse and relay base. I assume when you connected the battery the key was off so there shouldn't have been a spark. If you pinched the wire somewhere that might account for the spark you observed. It might also be a couple of wires rubbed together inside the loom, the wire probably goes fairly direct from the fuse block to the relay, from relay to ECU but don't take that for granted, sometimes Luigi made soldered joints inside the loom, you may have to remove the covering but check each end first. Whatever happened you need to get that Voltage back. Pull the fuse base and relays off, I'm sure you will find something there. The wire is marked BI-VE on my drawing (I don't speak Italian). The fuse base is plugged into a couple of rubber grommets, just pull and wiggle it. Check the wire for continuity, I think you will find it open between F1 and the relay but intact between the relay and ECU pin 17. If you can't find the fault you might have to run a new wire. To be safe leave the ECU unplugged until you have re-established the Voltage. Since you have the relay bases off take the time to tighten the contacts, I like to use petroleum jelly (Vaseline) to stop corrosion. BTW, I think the 300 mV and different Ohms readings you observed Key On/Key Off are voltage drop in the wiring. I didn't mean for you to take all those readings, just included the drawing for reference. Good Luck Roy 3067_001.pdf

Yes your testing is correct. Relay 4 is the relay that feeds the ECU terminal 26, at least it is on mine. It's possible that Luigi put the 12 Volts to terminal 87 instead of 30, either way will work. It is possible that the relay socket is loose not making proper contact with the relay pin, a bad contact there will cause the relay to get hot. It's very easy to tighten the contacts, just make a little tool to release the clip and they pop right out (see attached) If you shorted out the battery through the relay it's possible something fused inside, swap it around with another relay to be sure it's not that. Test the relay in the Start Relay position, that gives them a good workout. Double check the voltage on fuse 3 & 7. All fuses should have the same Voltage on both sides, if it's different points to a loose contact or bad fuse. F1 feeds Relay 4, what's on the right side? Measure by touching the socket part, not the fuse itself. Warm fuses are a sign of a bad connection. Just to be sure check the ECU ground with your meter, it should be 0 Ohms back to battery negative. What actually happened when you flashed the battery, did you see any smoke or other bad signs? To reiterate, I think your problem it the lack of 12 Volts on relay 4, the ECU needs that. Pins 23 and 24 of the UCU plug should also be connected to ground, in fact I'm not even certain the case needs it. I have attached the ECU drawing, you can check the plug for the various voltages. Look for 12 Volts on 17 & 26. 26 is switched by the ECU relay R-4 Tell me more about the cam shaft tensioner, why did you change that? I'm thinking perhaps mine needs replacing because the bike won't idle properly. It's not broken but the spring seems a bit weak. Relay Base Repair.pdf ECU Test Points.pdf

******* Modified ********* Bruce, I doubt you have fried the ECU, more likely a fuse gone, it might be just a tiny break With your multimeter or a lamp check you have power on both sides of every fuse to chassis with the key ON If you have the electric petcock you should see voltage either side of Fuse 8 to the chassis even if the ECU is not working. At this point you should also have voltage at test point f. If not start on the left hand side and work your way across, with relay 3 removed and the sidestand up there should be voltage at TP b & c 12V also at the top contact (30) of Relay 4 & 5 Check that Relay 4 is energized, you should hear it click as you poke it into the socket. The fact that you have cranking tells me your safety circuit is probably made. Make sure the ECU is grounded, the wire is quite small you may have burnt it off, perhaps where you can't see it. The ECU is rubber mounted so it needs that ground. Try substituting the relays in 4 & 5 for a couple of others. Actually the start relay spot is good for checking a relay, both NO & NC are used. Good Luck Roy

Updated Hubert, You are correct of course, it doesn't pump current, I shouldn't have used that terminology, all it does is turn the current pulses ON if it thinks the battery is low. It has no control at all over the size of the current pulses, they are whatever the alternator will put out, once turned on it can't turn a pulse OFF. What it does however is control how many pulses are skipped thus setting the average current. I am presently dealing with a guy who has a 2 Volt drop between the battery and black wire. His regulator will try and get the battery up to 16 Volts so it sees 14 back at it's reference, this is too much for a 12 Volt battery, somethings going to give. My whole point is there should be very little voltage drop between the battery and the reference ( Your extra bright headlight and sweaty battery were probably caused by a bad contact in the reference circuit. I'm guessing you have added headlight relays, yes or no?

now that's one interesting idea. How does that work? hubert The regulator in between output pulses looks at the voltage between the black wire (I call reference) and it's case If the Voltage is If the Voltage is > 14 the SCRs stay OFF skipping the next half cycle. This all takes place at a high frequency 933 times a second at 4,000 revs Each SCR is paired up with a diode. The current pulse peaks are quite high, in the order of 30 Amps or more. The reference is tapped off the headlight circuit which draws about 4 Amps. If there was 0.2 Ohms resistance in the contacts 0.2 x 4 = 0.8 Volts drop, the regulator will think the battery is low and try to charge to 14.8 Volts. 14.8 is probably ok but as the resistance gets higher eventually the regulator will overheat melting the solder that connects the diode leads, it's all down hill from there. There are several contacts between the battery and reference, perhaps a fuse, start relay, headlight relay and in some extreme (worst) cases the ignition switch. BTW, a bad ground on the regulator I now think will have oposite effect, under charging the battery. If just one diode is melted it will also under charge because it can only send half the number of current pulses to the battery. The 14 Volt setpoint is nominal, it was 13.8 in the last one I tested. I reverse engineered mine, here is the circuit Regulator Schematic - With Notes.pdf

Yes, your regulator would have thought the battery was flat so it kept pumping in current until it's diodes melted. They can be bypassed. You need to fix that voltage drop. I think the Ducati regulators are good, it wasn't its fault but your wiring. If I was going to buy a new one I would check out the one on the later bikes, it connects directly to the battery thus eliminating the reference problem. PM sent Roy

EXACTLY, you can't risk a flat battery

I think the Voltage is stepped down to 5V, the adapters use a few mA even without the GPS plugged in but that's enough to drain the battery over 2 or 3 weeks, connect your multimeter in series you will see (provided that the meters fuse isn't blown of course, try it with the GPS installed to be sure) I'm getting 0.3 Amps with the Zumo in the mount and working, and 3.3mA with just the mount by itself (disclaimer - I'm using a multimeter that cost all of $9 so accuracy may not factor!) Even a $9 meter would be better than +/- 10% A 10 Amp hour battery would be at 1/2 charge 5/0.0033 = 1,500 hours (2 months)

I think the Voltage is stepped down to 5V, the adapters use a few mA even without the GPS plugged in but that's enough to drain the battery over 2 or 3 weeks, connect your multimeter in series you will see (provided that the meters fuse isn't blown of course, try it with the GPS installed to be sure)

My buddy connected his GPS direct to the battery, Even though he unplugged the cable from the unit the power supply in the cable ran his battery flat over a couple of weeks. Connect your load to the headlight relay circuit or to one of the fuses that is switched by the ignition switch and you won't have to worry about flattening the battery. The headlight relay is only energized when you turn the key on and there are lots of point in and around the dash where you can connect. Most GPS units have a voltage regulator built into the plug, don't try to cut the cable and connect it directly to 12 Volts. Don't ask me how I know. Roy

Handtius - Baha1000, who are we dealing with? 2 different problems on one post makes for difficult troubleshooting. Handtius, is your bike OK now? Baha1000 From your tests the Alternator seems normal. I will send you a PM Roy

Don't try to pull the regulator apart just yet, the wires will be ok as far as the board. Have you done the diode test I sent you a few posts back, each yellow to the red should read 0.5 - 0.6 Volts If one is open I will tell you what to do next. Get back to us

You didn't think you were going to get away with that did you? We want pictures Heres what my K&Ns look like I extended them with the original intake rubbers, this made a huge difference to the power band. And without socks If I were to do it again I would get the pods with a slight angle instead of straight ones. The cable loom that used to run past the seat release lock is tucked up under the tank with the surplus where the air box used to be. I extended the breather down below the gearbox and finished it off with a crankcase breather, also from K&N

I guess nobody's tried one. Is it similar to a Power Commander? I have a MyECU from Cliff Jefferies, I am pleased with that.

Fuse 5 should be a 15 Amp http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif Good idea to check the wires, just pull hard on the fuse block and it pops right out. It plugs into a couple of rubber grommets. Are you running any additional driving lights or large headlight bulb? I had my 30 Amp fuse melt like that, it actually welded itself to the holder. I was able to clean the contacts successfully but now I have added a couple of headlight relays and a fuse to drive them, this improved the lights at least by 20% and took the load off F5. Headlight Relays.pdf The two diodes are optional, just appealed to my electrical brain. Good Luck Roy

If a fuse melts like that it's not caused by over current it's a loose fuse socket, it heats up the fuse body melting the plastic. You may be able to clean the contacts with emery cloth and bend them together so they have a tighter grip. A 15 Amp will be OK but I wouldn't go any higher. If when you fix the fuse it still isn't charging Measure between the two yellow wires from the alternator, it should be close to 0 Ohms. I pulled the cover off mine and found one wire was just hanging on by a single strand. I had to replace the wires because the copper had oxidized and it wouldn't take the solder. Check for AC voltage as Gstallons says. BTW Fuse 5 is the headlight fuse, that also supplies the horn as I pointed out earlier, fix the horn and you will fix the charging. Because of this high resistance at times you have also had serious overcharging because the reference for the regulator comes after the headlight relay, the Voltage after the fuse is low so the regulator thinks the battery is low and cranks up to maximum creating more heat at the fuse and so it gets rapidly worse. Charging current to charging Voltage is not a linear relationship, the current will try to go through the roof limited only by the maximum the alternator can produce. I'm surprised the bike wasn't running rough. Hopefully your regulator is still ok Here's how to test the regulator diodes. Regulator Diode Tests.pdf Another thing I discovered, the bracket the regulator is bolted to is not part of the chassis, it's the horn bracket, just one more reason to run a good ground wire between the regulator case and an engine bolt, I say an engine bolt rather than the battery as the engine to battery connection has to be very good otherwise the starter wouldn't operate.