Kiwi_Roy

Makes perfect sense to me, of course I'm easy Actually I posted it on an electrical forum I use all the time. This guy is a guru. What he says is it's producing current without producing power. The current still heats up the circuit but it takes little HP to produce it. When it's charging the battery it's using more HP, you'll have to trust me on that. Skogsgurra (Electrical) 22 Jul 10 11:53 The impedance is mainly inductive so the shorting produces reactive current, which doesn't heat much, nor does it load the prime mover. Shorting with triacs is still used. At least in trial bikes. That's where I have seen it. Heres the charging circuit from my 2005 Suzuki S50, I have seen others similar

The trickiest part of the process is removing the circuit board. You need to slice all around and under as much as possible using the grommet location to poke the knife under. The first picture shows the board finally out The second picture shows typical arcing, the diode lead is just soldered on. Im not sure what causes the solder to melt, probably an overload then it starts to arc away. With one diode not properly functioning that's probably when you notice the charging seems to be weak.

This might be a good spot to start a side topic on repairing the regulator. Here are a few pictures taken in the process The epoxy is quite easy to remove, you just need patience. I would describe it as a bit like sugary toffee to cut through Once you have the board exposed you need to unsolder the diodes and SCRs

I guess it's easier with a 3 phase alternator since 3 phase is allways putting out current and you need the current to pass through zero for an SCR to turn off. I tested my Guzzi out of curiosity I think I got something like 27 Amps AC shorted out. Perhaps shorting out doesn't consume as much power, I'll have to think about that, I saw 27 Amps but no Volts (no Watts). The 27 Amps will certainly heat up the coils.

Sorry, I just noticed your question. The Yamaha charging system is quite a bit different The Yamaha alternator and I think most other bike alternators are 3 phase (3 wires), the Guzzi is single phase (2 wires) A 3 phase system gives a much smoother DC from the regulator because there is always one set of coils generating Voltage 120° apart whereas the single phase alternator stops sending power to the battery for a good portion of the cycle. Because of this gap it needs to send higher current pulses to make up for lost time. The Yamaha (& Suzuki) regulator operates by shorting out the alternator coils when the battery is up to voltage The Guzzi regulator operates by opening the circuit when the battery is up to voltage. I guess in theory it would be possible to convert the guzzi to 3 phase but I think at the very least it would mean a new stator. If someone has there stator out they could count the coil slots, the number would have to be divisible by 6 I think or at least by 3 I should point out I'm not a motor winder. You could just try the Yamaha regulator leaving the third input wire disconnected, it might work but there again the single phase Guzzi alternator might cook it, or cook itself. Myself, I decided to design my own regulator using much beefier components 50 Amp instead of about 25 Amp. I have most of the parts, just need to find the time.

I just changed my 2001 Spark late last year I think it may have been OK still if the PO hadn't stored it for a year and the regulator hadn't quit. I ended up paying $190 for a Yuasa in a panic so you may want to have one on hand while you can shop around Get it dry with the acid to add. The Yuasa is quite simple to commission. Roy

I observed -3 at idle after overhauling the regulator but perhaps I'm idling too slow. If anyone wishes to add an ammeter look at the drawing I posted #2 from top. The proper location is "Position 2", this will show the net charge (current to and from the battery not including starter) Under the seat would be a good location for a small ammeter thus keeping the wires short hard to see while riding however A digital mV meter could be added up front using a simple shunt under the seat e.g. 10 mV per Amp, that would require just small wires from the seat to dash, I could draw that up if anyones interested. I think mV kits should still be available, failing that a small cheap multimeter would work. Roy

No, not in the Ducati regulator, the 2 SCRs are part of the bridge they turn off breaking the circuit when the Voltage is up. On my Suzuki they shorted out the alternator as you say. Here's the full circuit and explanation, my interpretation anyway. Roy Regulator Schematic.pdf

Here is the basic circuit. The 3 regulators I have pulled apart have had a bad connection to one of the diodes at top of drawing. Test your diodes with a multimeter on diode range. You should see about 0.5V when you connect the red probe to one of the yellows and the black probe to the regulator red. Open circuit when you reverse the leads. If you don't have the diode tester you can check with a battery and lamp. The other drawing shows the readings I obtained after overhauling my regulator. Note: Pulling the headlight fuse doesn't save power, the regulator picks up 12 volts from that circuit as a reference without it there will be no current and the battery will go flat. If you need to conserve power unplug the headlight at the steering column or pull the lamp. Roy Regulator Basic2.pdf Charging Circuit.pdf

It wouldn't be a magnet by any chance? Sometimes one is fitted to the drain plug to catch any stray iron floating around.

I work with pressure regulators all the time. Applying a vacuum will lower the pressure but only by the equivalent of atmospheric pressure say from 45 - 30 psi. Interestingly there are guzzi documents that show the spiggot connected to the inlet manifolds which would lower the fuel (pressure) flow under low throttle not by much though. I think that must have been dropped early on. and if you tried it would throw the map out.

The valve you see is the pressure regulator, it sets the injector pressure, about 45 psi I think. My bike had a section of large hose slipped loosely over the fuel line from petcock to the pump, I suspect this was to shield it from the heat coming off the cylinder head, perhaps to solve a similar issue.

I think reading Ratchets many postings was one of the reasons I decided on MyECU so I could freely make adjustments to the effect the different sensors have, it's still a black box, but at least it has a window. At one stage I tried changing the TPS voltage on the fly to see how it effected performance, now I have access to map values I can see I probably didn't change the voltage enough to have a noticeable effect. Roy

I have Mistrals on mine put on by PO, they look exactly like yours except they came with a dirty aluminium label riveted on "For off road use only". needless to say I got rid of those and they are a little scratched where they came in contact with the road a couple of times but I love the sound. I like the look of your intake filters without the side covers, what are they?

I should mention I got my kit going, not perfect yet but shows a lot of promise. To make use of the OEM ECU and my Power Commander I permanently wired the two together and installed in a metal box that fits in the tool tray as spare. Because I had to rob the pressure sensor I simply wired in a couple of resistors to give me 4.1 V (approx sensor output a @ Sea Level). I have taken the bike over 2,500 ft using this with no obvious effect. For some reason the bike cuts out once hot, I suspect it's something to do with the sensor fitted to RH cylinder. If I flip SW2 ON it runs OK Can someone please explain what the table marked Flags is about? I am thinking about an LC-1 kit but confused by the myriad of options when I google LC-1 Innovate Motor Sports Do I need an Optimizer to use the LC-1? Roy

Yes the type of spring nuts used to hold the reg in place shouldn't be relied on. The ground has to carry the total alternator output current. As Murray points out if you loose say 1/4 Volt between the regulator and chassis your battery will be low by the same ammount. I drilled a hole in one of the fins and put a heavy duty cable between there and a timing cover bolt. The Ducati regulator operates by opening up the charging circuit whereas some others operate by shorting out the alternator. Most alternators are 3 phase but the Guzzi is single phase so I would be a bit careful about substituting an after market regulator. If anyones into repairing a regulator send me a PM.

Hi Tom, Yes, I took some readings off my V11 after re-building the regulator with a new Yuasa battery. If you look back up the thread at my previous post you will see a pdf attached. Regards Roy

Heres a few more tips, I did some tests after repairing my regulator. Charging Circuit.pdf

You may have a bad regulator, heres a simple test you can do. I have dismantled 3 Ducati regulators, the common fault seems to be the diodes come unsoldered, the symptoms are weak charging. It's quite easy to check the diodes because they are wired directly to the yellow and red wires. If you have a multimeter with diode test put Red terminal on each yellow wire, Black terminal on red wire and you should see somewhere between 0.4 - 0.6 Volts. If you don't have the multimeter you can use a battery and ammeter or small lamp the ammeter should indicate or lamp should light up if the diodes are OK. (Battery positive to Yellow wire, Red wire to ammeter (lamp), ammeter (lamp) to battery negative) If you don't get a circuit through one of the diodes or it's erratic charging will be weak. Because the diodes are wired directly to Yellow & Red wires it's possible to hang another diode on the outside in parallel as a temporary fix. I successfully opened up my regulator and soldered the diode back together. Roy Regulator Basic.pdf

No you don't have to be crazy but it helps, would you rather be riding a Harley just like everybody and his dog? I'm not sure but I think that hose is just a drain from the frame vent, perhaps you could just do a temporay fix by cutting and jambing a length of tube into it. Some expert please comment. Roy

The closest I could find was 4,700 pf 1kV I will try that, I could also put 2 in series if you think that's better Thanks Roy

Thanks Raz, I will whip out and get the caps, I assume anything close will do Regards Roy

Man it's tough trying to join Cliff's forum, he sent me a link that I tried it tells me I didn't join quick enough. Raz, The kit is going together ok I guess but I am having a bit of trouble identifying a few parts. I think the bill of material needs to be on a different page from artwork because it gets cut off in Nth American printout, our page layout is different I have two things that look like 1/2 watt resistors but very low ohms 1 is Brown Brown Black Silver and measures about 0.3 Ohms the other Brown Black Brown Silver measures about 1.5 Ohms are these the inductors L2, L2a, which is which? Another item looks like a MOV marked E60 075 , I don't see that called out anywhere. Cliff mentioned a couple of high voltage capacitors for Q1/Q2 do you know what value they should be, i will pick some up. Thanks Roy

Hi Guys, Just when you thought it was safe I pop up here. I recieved my kit earlier this week and I will likely put it together over the weekend Cliff sent me a file "Sport11Stock.ecu" I take it that's the starting point. I will be running Open Loop, no O2 sensor and no Optimizer hopefully that's OK. If I just load the file I assume it will start, am I right? I will check my TPS setting as I go. I think I will combine my exixting ECU and Power Commander into a box to use as spare. When I remove the pressure sensor I will just simulate the sea-level voltage, that should work. If not the cells are readily available for about US$17 I tracked down the 26 pin Tyco connector but I can't wait to order one so I will just canibalize the original. Is there anything else I have to remove from the original board for re-use? Cheers Roy