Kiwi_Roy

Pull relay 1 and try shorting across the 2 big terminals (make sure it's in Neutral first) That will test from the relay on. If I were to hazard a guess I would look at the switch on clutch lever, try shorting that out and press start, don't forget the kill switch. Roy

I changed the style of the relay base and the pins are arranged as you look at it on the bike. (at least on mine, its possible some bikes may have the wires swapped around I added the charging circuit. Show the dual coil arrangement in starter solenoid Tried to show which negatives are wired back to battery and which ones go through engine or frame. Cheers Roy

There's not much to the starter circuit. If you're not sure what it is here's the diagram. Start Button, Clutch Switch, Relay2 coil Guzzy_Wiring May 16 2010.pdf

If you are mounting it at the instrument panel I think I would jumper it onto the back of the tacho or with one of the panel lights, that way it will be protected by a fuse. Without the headlight loading down the circuit you shouldn't have any voltage drop. Another spot would be the ignition switch wiring. The problem with using an ammeter would be the long leads back to the battery area (unless you use a shunt and mV meter), perhaps under the seat to pick up all but the starter circuit. that would eliminate a couple of the wires on battery post. I have the Yuasa battery from B&I (USA) new last fall. I drilled the hole in lead terminal right through so I could add a decent length bolt. I'm going to have a crack at building my own regulator, there doesn't seem to be a reliable one out there so I can't do much worse. I did some preliminary testing and I think there is more power available in the low rev range than what the stock regs are putting out. The regulator is a pretty critical item, especially on a trip away there's no reason they should be failing like that. Roy

For the last couple of weeks after a ride in warm sunny weather I kept seeing what looked like rain drops on top of the tank. At first I thought I must have run through a sprinkler. Now I'm starting to think its drops of oil. My bike has no cover over the air filter element under the tank. The breather hose from frame to filter box is in place. I know for sure it's running rich. What do you gurus think it could be? Roy

Ok, I spent the best part of the weekend tracking down the problem (Intermittent tacho failure), this was a "Red Herring" I put small lamps across the 12V +/- terminals of the tacho and regulator +reference to ground, these never flickered even when the tacho stopped working. Measuring the battery voltage at the terminal posts I found it was jumping around anything from 10.5 - 13 with the tacho dropping to zero each time it was low. Conclusion - it's the regulator, this has been my gut feeling all along but in the meantime I have been over the whole bike and fixed up a few loose connections and potential trouble spots so the time wasn't wasted. I was amazed that the bike will still crank over with battery voltage as low as 10.5 volts, I bought a new one last year and treated it well all winter but i'm starting to wonder if just one cell is bad. Roy

A major revision to the wiring diagram May 16th Look in the first post at top of thread Regards Roy

When the engine cuts out do you loose the lights? If so I would look for a broken wire to ignition switch at the steering. If you pull hard on each wire it usually shows up. I have been going through similar with my bike, 70,000 kM but I think it's a lack of good ground somewhere. I suggest you read the thread "Earths" & "Electrical Nightmare" Roy

As you know for the past couple of weeks I have been chasing a elusive fault, battery goes flat, the engine spits and starts every now and then and the tacho occasionally drops to zero, charge light comes on randomly. This evening I strapped my multimeter to the tank and connected to the two red wires from the regulator, the negative terminal I put under one of the radiator screws. I expected to see the battery charging but to my surprise the voltage would jump from 12-15-10-13 all over the map. even with the voltage showing 9.5 Volts the bike cranked over easy. From this I have deduced that I have a bad ground somewhere, probably Negative to Chassis, this would explain at least the charging and tacho, hopefully the missing also. I suggest you check your ground to engine and to the chassis, perhaps add another between engine and Chassis Hope this helps Roy

For the past couple of weeks I have been chasing a elusive fault, battery goes flat, the engine spits and starts every now and then and the tacho occasionally drops to zero. This evening I strapped my multimeter to the tank ad connected to the two red wires from the regulator, the negative terminal I put under one of the radiator screws. I expected to see the battery charging but to my surprise the voltage would jump from 12-15-10-13 all over the map. From this I have deduced that I have a bad ground somewhere, this would explain at least the charging and tacho, hopefully the missing also. If you think your relay bases are a problem see my thread on overhauling the bases, about 2 hours work Hope this helps Roy

I read through the specs, it looks pretty good to me. You could leave it permanently attached. I wonder if it should have a fuse in the positive lead though Roy

On my bike this one was under one of the horn mounting bolts, looks like 18 AWG or similar not big enough IMHO. The same current flows here as in the 30Amp fuse circuit. I beefed this up with a cable from regulator fin to one of the timing cover bolts Roy

Charging Issue Insert your ammeter in series with the two red wires/large wire to 30Amp fuse to measure if any current at all going to the battery. If you don't have ammeter see attached You do have a good ground on your regulator? It's possible to have 12V with a bad connection or perhaps the it dissapears after starting, pull the connector apart part way so it's still connected to the regulator and measure it to chassis, engine running. Make sure all the conectors are tight, squeeze them with a pair of pliers if a bit loose. Check the two yellow wires from the alternator, you should get a low resistance. With the engine running measure voltage between yellow wires just work them out a little bit to get your meter on. Logicly If you have AC on the yellow wires AND 12V to ground on the red black AND the wire to battery is OK AND no current going to the battery, the only thing it can be is the regulator I assume you are following the other thread on topic "Charging light inoperable" Tacho Issue One Red/Black wire goes from the wire joins via the plug on right hand side to the instrument panel where it splits 4 ways to lights and tacho. The tacho also has a negative, measure voltage across the two terminals. Make sure they are connected to the right terminal (it's marked on tacho) and you have 12 V with key on The third wire runs from the pin 3 of the ECU via a dedicated plug socket adjacent to it and another dedicated plug near the multipin. You can check the other wire by measuring resistance from tacho all the way back to pin 3 at the ECU. If you find it broken check the section from tacho to the first plug at tank, it might have broken where it flexes at the steering head. I tore my harness apart this evening, the Red/Black wires are all soldered together under the jacket just about in the middle of the tank, in fact there's lots of joints there soldered and covered with heat shrink, heres the good news, the solder joints are very well done with good quality solder. Oh well, scratch something else off the list. Troubleshooting Tips.pdf

[quote name='Slavomir Musilek' date='13 May 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1273733101' post='170700' Current problem is: no charge at all and not working tachometer. Headlight is working OK. Now I am running OEM rectifier and Yuasa battery. Slavek We know for a fact that the regulator needs 12V from the headlight circuit to make it work. We also know that the tachometer also needs 12V from the headlight circuit. A few posts back you said you have 12V at the two pin connector, something doesn't add up. My bike has a somewhat similar problem, the battery seems to charge for a while but then stops. I also noticed the tacho drops to zero on occasions and the charge warning light comes on, not allways at the same time. I suspect that your bike like mine has 12V at the regulator intermittently. Last time I rode the charge light flickered independent of revs but the headlight stayed on. I will strip mine down tonight and find where that joint is. In the meantime if you can put a small wire into the 2 pin regulator plug an monitor the voltage with a small lamp to chassis it might be usefull. I'm starting to think bad joint somewhere. Have you tried measuring current from regulator to battery? You said a few posts back "white wire from rectifier connects to blue in harness, should I focus on this one?" Is this the same joint I'm talking about?

I did mine about a month ago. I tried in vain to get the nozzle onto the nipple and ended up taking the shaft out which involved dropping the swing arm. When I finally got it out I discovered thet the nozzle was too big to fit between the universal halves. A few strokes with a file fixed that. I'm sure I could do it now with just the back wheel removed. Caution, If you end up taking it apart be very carefull to line up the indent in the shafts where the pinch bolts go through otherwise they catch and strip. See the thread on the subject. Have Fun Roy Grease.pdf

It checks to see if the contacts are closed If the coil burns out it won't light If the contact doesn't make it won't light If the base connector isn't making contact with the relay pin it won't light. It just takes a glance to see if the LEDs are on in the right pattern _1__2__3__4__5 Relay No Off On On On Off Key on Off On On On On A short pulse while the pump primes On Off On On On Cranking Off On On On On Running As someone pointed out the light on R3 allows you to check the stand switch or the neutral switch. It's a bit of a gimick really but I like that sort of thing

I wonder if you could jamb some rubber material like part of an "O" ring between the case and outside of fuse clip to give some added tension

An Ammeter would be nice also, connected between the battery and Load/Charging circuit so you can see net charge/discharge Nearly all the old British bikes with generators had them. It seems our charging system is just as flakey.

Slavek, I scanned back through the thread and the symptoms seemed to change so i'm not sure what your current (pardon the pun) problem is exactly. Please tell us what the problem is at the moment, lack of charge, blowing fuses, non working charge light or whatever? With as much information as you can add. What regulator have you installed at the moment? If it's a charging issue, did you try any of the tests in my attachment? Do you have an Ammeter with at least 10 Amp range? I wait your reply. Roy

Sorry, I'm not going to read the whole thread again. You should also have 12V on the other wire, male pin, that comes back through the charge light, brush it quickly to ground and you should see the light come on Do you get a good AC voltage across the two yellow wires from alternator, I think it's 20 - 60 V depending on revs. Check the resistance from where the two reds plug in (Position 1) to the battery positive, should be very low If you have an Amps scale on your meter connect it in series with this cable, see sketch, Position 1 If you don't have an amps range, is your meter digital with a mV range, do you have some 20 Amp wire of known size (cross section)? Charging Circuit.pdf

Another update at top of thread Roy

I'm pretty sure the ECU cuts out on over voltage, it may be programmed in there to protect itself. I observed this at the weekend. Make sure you have a good ground wire from the engine to regulator, assuming yours is a Ducati all the current returns that way. Reading on the web our regulators are c***, Have you tried a different one? OOPS, I looked back, you have The regulator should try to maintain the voltage between it's output and ground. If there's any way the ground is floating high the output will follow I don't think yours uses the case as ground reference like Ducati. Roy

Thanks Otis, left alone the bases would likely last for ever, but at the first sign of a problem we do the relay shuffle which eventually springs the contacts apart. I'm guilty of that myself. Cheers Roy

The battery resistance is normally very low, that's how it's able to put out 100 amps to crank the engine (the starter is rated 120 Watts) If you see 13V with 0.1 Amp the battery must be nearly fully charged or so old the plates have fallen apart. The regulator will stop putting out current once it's reached the voltage setpoint, maybe yours is set at 13? Remember though there's about 9 amps going out of the battery when running, as the battery voltage drops the regulator has to pick that up Check and see you have 12V at the harness side of the double plug where the regulator plugs in (key on) the male pin comes from the charging light The female pin comes from the headlight relay Without 12 V on the female the regulator will not work (sorry I don't know the wire colours) The fact that the tacho is not working tells me the 12 V is missing, My bike is loosing it's tacho too at the moment, I thought I had found it when I found a loose relay 2 socket. Another possibility, perhaps it's broken where it flexes with steering. I will be sure to keep you posted, please do likewise. Roy

I assume the yellow wire is soldered to the coils, in that case it was likely an electrical overload heating up the wire to a point where the solder melted. There are two reasons why the fuse would melt, over current or a combination of high current and a loose fuse clip. I found mine not blown but welded in place and hot to touch. After I squeezed in the clip a bit it has no longer overheated. If the clips are tight it shouldn't get hot before blowing as the fuse link is quite small relative to the contact pins. Of course it will get warm. Roy