Lucky Phil

Thanks Scud, I went the whole 9 yards on the paint prep wise. Stripped the cases soda blasted most then used mag wheel cleaner on the parts for 10 min and hosed it off and painted within 2 days. Then I cured it all in the oven. If it doesnt stick now it never will. I have stripped about 90% of the crinkle finish gearbox, what a nightmare that stuff is. In some places the paint is over 1mm thick. I'll strip it apart as you did and do the painting properly. Ciao

Yes Chuck, thinking about it I might just turn up a new restrictor as not only is it too long but its also a loose fit in the bearing carrier where its a neat fit in the original. There would be a significant amount of oil bypassing the restrictor in the new set up. Notice as well the new bearing carrier has a boss for the oil hole to the seal area at 1 o'clock but the original only has a hole with no boss.Need to think about that one, maybe better oil supply to the seal area? Dont know. Ciao

Thanks Jaap, good to know the 15M can be used with the old style TPS. Now I need to source a Daytona/Centauro map for the 15M and use Guzzidiag to load it I guess. Ciao

I've been thinking about this for a while before responding. Elevation equals reduced cylinder pressure, no exceptions. So that cannot be the source of your ping. I can say with certainty that the variability in pump gas out west was disconcerting and surprising. My 1100 Sport-i was sensitive to gas stops far more that it was to altitude. I never got pinging, but I did get noticeable weakness and a couple times generally unhappy low-throttle running. I don't believe for a second that either the octane number nor the alcohol listed on the pumps is a reliable indicator of what's going in the tank. Miles per gallon was the most noticeable difference, however. It varied between 45-ish in Georgia to 34-ish in New Mexico, though the performance aspect is not so apparent on those long flat fast stretches. NoCal and Washington State seemed the least consistent. Of course, none of this is scientific, only subjective- but over 10k miles one gets a good feel for what's going on. So I'll suggest that your condition is a symptom of local fuel quality. The worst tank I had by far was somewhere South of Sacramento. Not quite. Pre ignition or ping as well call it here is caused by hot spots in the combustion chamber that cause the fuel in isolated areas to, well pre ignite hence the sound you hear. Detonation is caused by the fuels inability to maintain its chemical stability during the ignition event and the oncoming flame front and then burns in an uncontrollable fashion combined with the spark ignited flame front and the two intersecting a lot more cylinder temp and pressure is created. A much worse scenario than ping. The reasons for both are many and varied. But back to the original issue.Poor fuel can of course cause ping but the altitude can also play a roll if not be the actual cause. When you climb 3000 feet the pressure will drop 3/4 of a psi. (old aircraft engineers figure-1/4 psi per 1000 ft) Chuck may be able to confirm piloting and all. So thats about a 5% drop in atmospheric. The ecu of course leans out the mixture to compensate and of course you get a commensurate drop in power. Problem is your brain and right wrist dont necessarily accommodate this loss of power and unconsciously just apply more throttle to achieve the same performance. So what you end up with is the same load ( speed and resistance to climb the given rise) but with a leaner mixture and more throttle and if the temperature is also high more leaning.Result....increased combustion chamber temperature, hot spots and ping. Your theory about elevation and cylinder pressure also only holds true for WOT or a given throttle position. But in the real world when we all ride the reduced atmospheric pressure is compensated for by opening the throttle more to maintain the performance we seek. Most of us even when we are "going for it" in the twisties are only using maybe 35-50% throttle. You'd be amazed how little time even a race bike spends at WOT. Ciao Throttle position isn't even in the equation here. You need a given amount of cylinder pressure to do a given amount of work, and if you need to open the throttle farther to get that, it's irrelevant unless opening the throttle adds in more ignition timing, which is usually the opposite. So your point about 'my theory' is problematic because you say it 'only holds true for WOT or a given throttle position' WTF even is there other than WOT or a given throttle position? Would you like to add acceleration enrichment to 'my theory' and explain how a richer mixture makes it ping? One might reasonably suggest that his ride at altitude was more aggressive than below, but I surmise that he rides pretty near sea level aggressively as well without the ping, or he wouldn't have bothered with the question eh? The point is that at one altitude higher than another, there is no point at which the cylinder pressure can be higher, at any given throttle opening, than at the lower altitude, so that cannot be the root of the problem. On to the next 'theory'. Maybe what I omitted was at a given static throttle position". So without getting into a major pointless debate here clearly throttle position is a factor. Here's the OP's quote " pre-detonation/pinging started to occur if I hit the throttle too hard. So the variable is altitude and and temperature as he normally has no issues at sea level even on the crap 91 fuel he has in the bay area and has no issue riding up a mountain and NOT hitting the throttle too hard. ​So assuming he has the same crap fuel as normal its all about the altitude and temperature and the controllable variability is the right wrist which is governing the combustion pressure and temperature. Ciao

Here's one for the detail people. I was looking at the rear main today and noticed the cam journal feed slip in restrictor seemed to penetrate into the main bearing area to the point it would contact the crank journal. Hmmmm... if you check out the image you can see the small steel tube just peeking out enough to come into contact with the crank journal. Issue is the new rear main has been counterbored for the restrictor 2.5mm too deep compared to the old main.It probably wouldnt have caused a major drama and oil flow may have kept it off the crank journal but its also a much looser fit in the hole than the original and its better to take a few mm off it and keep it away from the journal. There's a million detains just waiting to bite you on the ass with a job like this. You can just see the edge of the restrictor peaking into the bearing bore at 12 oclock. Another angle The original main. The difference is obvious. Ciao

Ok good, I was worried there for a while. Must have misread the post. Ciao

Which spring broke the Guzzi original or Chucks beautiful re engineered one. Ciao

Ok so I finally got all the engine parts painted. Just assembly to do. Here's the valve cutters I used. I can highly recommend these, they are expensive but do a brilliant job. Not shown is the simple T handle you use to rotate them. Apply some sharpie to the face you want to cut and away you go. Once you think its ready to lap turn off all the workshop lights and with the valve installed without the springs of course shine a bright light up the port from the header or inlet end and look for any slight sliver of light through where the valve seat and valve meet. Dont try and lap the valve until you see no light then the lapping is quick and easy. Here is my Kline kit I used on one of the heads. The tool on the far left is my home made guide trimmer for finishing off the sleeve down to the ends of the guide. The Kline one is silly money like $180 so I just machined up a basic one from some chrome molly. Seemed to work well. The next 4 items are all ball broaches used to size and lock the sleeve in place after its driven in with the spring equipped driver. The next basic looking tool is another home made thing from me to save a dollar, this time its to use with the guide reamer shown and is held in the valve seat to keep the reamer aligned with the guide via the valve seat. The last is another of my home made tools a modified impact gun tool for driving the ball broaches through. My lathe work isnt up to Chucks standards I know. I'm pretty basic on the machines. Oh and there's one for the hammer boys, my new dead blow hammer, I have a larger one the same. Bought them a few months ago at an auction cheap:) deal. Ciao

Many of the guys who race the Isle of Man and the other road races aren’t much different. Someone like Dave Molyneux who has won 17 TTs on a sidecar just shows up with his van. Seventeen... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yes but Dave lives on the IOM:) I do take your point, but back in the day when we were a little two man band even we took a spare engine to the IOM with us. Ciao

It’s possible but it would take someone very skilled so it doesn’t distort. Fortunately the barrels aren’t rare. A brand new barrel is $900. Brand new. I have a couple spares, with broken fins. Fins are cosmetic so easy to weld up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It just made me think of the great John Britten. He had a crack in the sleeve at Daytona, right after qualification. He tore it down, welded it with a borrowed torch and a coat hanger, and raced the next day. Still amazes me. What used to amaze me with the Britten guys is that they travel across the world to a track thats just about all WOT without any engine spares.They were the same when they used to come to Australia, was basically a bunch of guys working out of the boot of a car. Got to love Kiwis, very resourceful people. Makes me wonder how successful they would have been if they were halfway organised. Ciao

I have no doubt there are people that would:) Nice Video Dave. Quietly going about the task in the workshop with friends is always enjoyable and you have the comfort of knowing you are following the exact same footsteps of many a Norton Commando owner:) Ciao

I doubt that this is the only reason, but certainly a contributing factor. The ADC used in the 15M is a 8bit, which resolves the 5V to steps of 19,53mV. The delta between 157 and 170mV is 13mV, this equals roughly one ADC step. So the fuel values would slip one row, which is noticeable but not to the extent of what you describe. A re-sync is what I would do. Cheers Meinolf Here's one for you Meinolf. When I fit my Daytona engine to the V11, what throttle bodies should I use? I have the original sideflow green injector bodies from the Daytona with the old large style TPS and a set of the V11 throttle bodies with the older style injectors and the smaller TPS. I'd prefer to use the side flow injectors because they make the plumbing neater but will the 15M ecu accommodate the old style TPS? My next decision as well is whether or not to use the 15M and Guzzidiag or the Myecu that I have on the shelf. Any thoughts on these combinations? Can I source a Daytona fuel and ignition maps for the 15M? Looking for the simplest and easiest way out with the least research involved. Forgive me for being lazy. Ciao

Ok Chuck thanks. Seems to tally from my flying around days with the 737-800's and them having around 25% of Sea Level thrust at 40,000 feet. Climb and accell was fairly leisurely at those altitudes as was engine response to the thrust levers. Ciao

I've been thinking about this for a while before responding. Elevation equals reduced cylinder pressure, no exceptions. So that cannot be the source of your ping. I can say with certainty that the variability in pump gas out west was disconcerting and surprising. My 1100 Sport-i was sensitive to gas stops far more that it was to altitude. I never got pinging, but I did get noticeable weakness and a couple times generally unhappy low-throttle running. I don't believe for a second that either the octane number nor the alcohol listed on the pumps is a reliable indicator of what's going in the tank. Miles per gallon was the most noticeable difference, however. It varied between 45-ish in Georgia to 34-ish in New Mexico, though the performance aspect is not so apparent on those long flat fast stretches. NoCal and Washington State seemed the least consistent. Of course, none of this is scientific, only subjective- but over 10k miles one gets a good feel for what's going on. So I'll suggest that your condition is a symptom of local fuel quality. The worst tank I had by far was somewhere South of Sacramento. Not quite. Pre ignition or ping as well call it here is caused by hot spots in the combustion chamber that cause the fuel in isolated areas to, well pre ignite hence the sound you hear. Detonation is caused by the fuels inability to maintain its chemical stability during the ignition event and the oncoming flame front and then burns in an uncontrollable fashion combined with the spark ignited flame front and the two intersecting a lot more cylinder temp and pressure is created. A much worse scenario than ping. The reasons for both are many and varied. But back to the original issue.Poor fuel can of course cause ping but the altitude can also play a roll if not be the actual cause. When you climb 3000 feet the pressure will drop 3/4 of a psi. (old aircraft engineers figure-1/4 psi per 1000 ft) Chuck may be able to confirm piloting and all. So thats about a 5% drop in atmospheric. The ecu of course leans out the mixture to compensate and of course you get a commensurate drop in power. Problem is your brain and right wrist dont necessarily accommodate this loss of power and unconsciously just apply more throttle to achieve the same performance. So what you end up with is the same load ( speed and resistance to climb the given rise) but with a leaner mixture and more throttle and if the temperature is also high more leaning.Result....increased combustion chamber temperature, hot spots and ping. Your theory about elevation and cylinder pressure also only holds true for WOT or a given throttle position. But in the real world when we all ride the reduced atmospheric pressure is compensated for by opening the throttle more to maintain the performance we seek. Most of us even when we are "going for it" in the twisties are only using maybe 35-50% throttle. You'd be amazed how little time even a race bike spends at WOT. Ciao

This whole modernist phenomenon of "motorcycles as art" or "sculpture" thing kind of offends me. It would if it was "airplanes as art" as well.The real talent is to design and build something beautiful and what could be described as a work of art whilst making it dynamically superior. Form and function in perfect harmony at a high level. Old dungers with cut off guards and polished bits with magnetos hanging out in the breeze and a look of obvious and total unrideability is just a vacuous wast of time for mine. Ciao

There are no nuts on Carrillo rods the bolts thread into the rods. There would also be no need to replace rod nuts after torquing as the nuts arent subject to any stretch. As a matter of fact if you use ARP head studs ARP suggest you torque the heads twice on installation to run in the threads on the nut and stud. This gives greater clamping consistency. The say their research shows torquing the studs around 8 times runs in the threads on the nut and stud to give the best results as far as torquing consistency goes. Ciao

No the Carrillo SPS bolts are reusable anyway as long as they haven't been over stretched.I also didn't torque them up to full spec, held it about 15% less than final torque. If you use brand new bolts what you can do is measure the free length of the bolts then torque the bolts up to a little under full spec and then measure the bolt free length when you pull it apart again. If the bolt hasnt stretched then its good to reuse. Going the last 10 or 15% of the torque isnt going the change the clearance reading unless you have rubbish rods that distort the cap. Once the rod cap faces have seated and applied the crush to the bearing then with a good rod the clearance figure wont change appreciably, the rest is just applying stretch to the bolt to allow it to take the running load and stop it undoing. Ciao