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I should have know better, sorry. High CO is very common for a rich mixture. Rich is a common term when more fuel is present than the available O2 required to burn it. The avegae of your total run of HC is 464 ppm. Quite high. What is the current limit for states that mandate emissions testing? Anyone from CA or AZ know? Have these states started to implement the IM240 yet? When I lived in AZ they were starting it but wouldn't let me use the roller, insurance. The only motorcycle I have ever considered sedate at 100% throttle was a JR50 with the restrictors still in it. We are talking about sedate driving because all of us ride under sedate conditions on the street. I have never met anyone that rides at 100% for very long period of time. Even professional racers only average around WOT 20% of the time at most tracks. Drag racing being the obvious exception. Using a O2 in closed loop can tune for these sedate conditions, where a rich mixture is not desirable, efficiency is. I would think that a Futura owner would like to get better mileage while cruising on the interstate. It is a reactive engine control, which can tailor a map for current running conditions. Something which no dyno can reproduce. Although I should change "always" to normally. Exactly. Using O2 sensors do not require steady state conditions. I have not had a chance to work with one of the newer Factory dyno's. What is the max brake rating (tq) and isn't tire slip a problem?

When I redo my exhaust box I will probably use dual 2 1/4" outlets. After a crossover the main goal of an exhaust is to mearly remove and quiet the exhaust pulse.The bigger the diameter the less back pressure, but also the more noise. On the Suzuki TL1000 that we ran we started with dual 2" pipes coming out of the crossover, but we quickly found that it liked dual 3" pipes, unfortunatly the noise was deafening, even with 22" mufflers. We settled on 2 5/8"'s which was a good compromise. Personally I would add a H-pipe crossover. It should be at least 3/4 of the head pipe diameter. From the looks of the design it would be easy to add just in front or even at the beginning of the mufflers. Over all any sort of a crossover is a good thing, it broadens the tuned range of most exhaust systems. I love the the flat trackbike!!!!!!!!

Yep. Normally this is formed when combustion temperature gets to high, either through too much ignition timing, lean mixtures, or poor cooling. (All of which our Guzzi's have at some point it seems.) During our Guzzi's infamous "pinging" during accel, NOx levels rise precipitately. Here is some good reading. An older thread on that touch this subject.

I have already tried something similar to the above. But it was far too loud. It had 3" outlets on both sides.... Now about the front "crossover." This is actually what is known as a balance pipe. This pipe does not change the diameter of the exhaust system. During lower engine speeds a small amount of gases is diverted into the balance pipe. This effectly increases the tuned length of the pipe which helps with low rpm torque. Very similar to how a chamber work in muffler. At high rpm the exhaust pulses are close enough together that the amount of gas diverted is insignificant thus resulting in the actual tuned length of the pipe. Normally this pipe is placed very close to the exhaust outlet port. The balance pipe does not help with scavenging. A crossover is designed to help with scavenging, which can help with clearing and filling of the cylinders during a narrow rpm range. Where ever the crossover is placed determines the tuned length of the exhaust pipe due to the large change in ex. pipe diameter, which is relative to its tuned length also.

To my knowledge the tuning link only uses O2 sensor voltage becuase that is the only sensor that has a fast enough response time to be used on a inertial dyno. O2 sensors are chemical in nature and thus respond quickly to changes, CO, CO2, NOx are measured using a IR scanner or laser sampling method on the high end machines. The best response time I have seen for those is In summary I would believe that on the road tuning using O2 is the better than nothing, which is the only other option. On dyno tuning setting a CO target probably will get you better results quickly as CO is a better indicator of a rich condition. Although I would be careful to also keep an eye on the other gases. CO is a result of incomplete combustion, and can be greatly effected by poor combustion design, which our Guzzi are plauged with. I would expect a Guzzi's CO to always be much higher than an Aprilia's at a given A/F ratio. And actually Moto I would be curious to see the other gas data you have from the Aprilia and what type of dyno was used. Good choise in 5 gases, I used to use one and found it to have very consitant accurate results, but be careful they don't like dirty filters.

Personally I want one of these. Scarry

You stole my idea!!! To cool!!! Now all I need is a spare set of cans and a crossover to hack.

Here, to help some of you out with this topic. This site "http://www.autoshop101.com" has a wealth of info, auto-directed, but none the less use full. Much comes form the Toyota Curriculum. Of particular interest. Combustion Combustion II From moto's post it is clear that he is tuning for best power. Great, looks very nice on a inertial dyno. But the rich mixture does not always work best for more sedate driving. Best power is not always the best target. Using closed loop is not a perfect solution, but it is better at achiving good combustion efficiency over the long term under a wider range of running conditions. Will this always make the most power, NO, but neither will tuning for a target CO on a dyno, which is a very poor simulation for actual running conditions. Driving around with your 5 gas straped to your seat could be a very expensive experiement. (Even though I have done it.)

Nah, you need this one wired with bailing wire. Ohhhhhh Bakelite.

Well I don't even know where to start. At least this thread is in Technical Topics. Lets not forget that O2 controls were only started as a response to government emission regulations and the use of catalytic converters. Early cat's needed all the help the could get!! Maybe now that cat's are becoming more common place on motorcyles we will begin to see some better adaptive ECU's being used. Pexi - Your post on the methods of Fi operation is great. That is in simple terms hows most modern "learning" automotive computers work. Where the LTFT can eventually completely change the base map dramaticly "Fuzzy Logic" (3+3+3=9 or 10 or 8 depending .....). This has some very good advanatges most notabily that the ECU can now adjust for the various runnning conditions but also normal wear and tear. I have even seem some cars have running problems after an engine replacement until the LTFT is cleared. Modern ECU's have gotten much much better, the refinement of resonable limits to the "fuzzy" and the better use of intelligent sensor sampling, (the ability of an ECU to ignore inputs that are to far from target) and "limp maps" have all made early FI problems obsolete. Modern motorcycles have not yet begun to use the technology. I don't think cost is an resonable explaination, Honda and Kawasaki Heavy Industries both have extremely effective adaptive ECU's in wide spread use and have for some time. I believe it is more of an if it ain't broke don't fix it mentallity. The majority of motorcycle users in the world use them as short term, short distance, low milage vehicles. Long term adjustment just has not been a priority. The power to weight ratios of motorcycles make a seat of the pants fueling problems mostly unnoticable, particularly when we are talking in the 1 to 2 percent range. (But it is definately noticableto someone who knows how to read plugs.) Personnally I would love to see closed loop on more motorcycles. It has really proven it's effectiveness in the automotive world, even if its primary focus has been to keep emissions in check. Careful programming could easily change that to best power. As for the smapling of CO vs. O2. Moto did a good job of hitting that one, seems he has some gas analyzer experience. I think the ability of easily sampling CO is to expensive as compared to O2. My gas analzer cost me $6000. The last O2 sensor I put on my Toyota cost me $60. (It has three, 1 in each heder before the cat, and 1 after the cat. So the ECU can monitor the ability of the cats.) My 5 gas analyzer has about a 2 second delay for the CO results to be sampled and posted, but the O2 is almost in real time. Using O2 to react and produce electricity is very simple, CO is very expensive. Heck that enough for now, the Porter (Sierra Neveda) is finally working.

Is that one of the modded exercise bikes??? You know the old fashioned one that you pull on the handlebars and the seat moves while you pedal.

Sorry Cliff, I wasn't trying to suggest any problem with your system running in closed loop. I am sure that your code works just fine. I was merely commenting that currently no "race" bike were using closed loop, since that was a picture of a kitted zx. For a road going motorcycle I would take a closed loop system any day over open loop. Well put JuhaV but it isn't your Fi keeping your rev limit so low, its your pistons hitting your valves.

I worked with Yoshimura Suzuki here in the US during the late nineties. As for the "impending doom" engines most teams have one stuck somewhere in the trailer. Often they are normally used only during qualifying but there has been times when a rider choose to use them during a race for the small advantage they may have offered. Sometimes they finish, sometimes they don't. During the 96' 97' year the GSXR 750 ran carbs but in 98 FI was used. It was actually disliked by most riders initally, we hadn't sorted the "light switch effect" yet. But the carb or FI versions both made similar power.

Most racing teams use an O2 sensor on each pipe, but it merely for datalogging purposes. Full closed loop is much to slow to provide any benefit at 15,000 rpm. Needless to say that is when the teams normally want the most help. We would normally use the data from the O2 during practice to help determine and make minor mod's that needed to made to the fuel map. Burn a new EPROM and then test it again. Come race time, the O2 were often removed and plugged. Occansionaly they would be left in when ever we decided to use an "impending doom engine."

Looks like you have the gist of it Tx. join the club and revel in the experience. P.S. Take the ride. Enjoy the scenery.

Jaap, who let you actually drink that crap???? The only Americans that drinks that shit can't ride a motorcycle cause thiers guts get in the way, my father was one, BUD LIGHT all the way, ICK!!!!! The US has many fine breweries that are available all over. You just know where to look. You american "friends" should have steered you straignt. (But I am partial to german bocks,,mmmmm triple bock.... and english stouts personally; to strong for most american guts... LOL.) I am sorry you didn't have a more "enjoyable" beer drinking experience in the US, but you did sample the "NORM." Ick. At least you know how I feel,. Jrt - Sierra Nevada Porter is is on e of my regs. But I still rate Samual Smtih Oatmeal Stout as my favorite. Oh so go at $5.00 a bottle her in Georgia.... I need to make more money......

Alright here is my american two cents... PCIII - easy for the novice, best solution for the casual user. (Pipe, filter etc.) Simple to tune, or have tuned: tuning link center, price is resonable. No add ons. Well timing maybe. Tuneboy - Nice, reprograms the stock unit. Great with the 1.5, which is a good unit. Seems a bit over kill for the "average" user. Good for those with excessive mods (pipes, filter, cams, heads, plugs, -eg Al: even though the the PCIII will still work, I would want the adjustabilty of the the timing control)or a technophile habit. Could be overkill for the home user, resulting in a "oh shit, I killed my bike." Need a laptop to really utilize effectily. (But if you are considering this option, you should already have laptop and some solid computer knowledge.) Cliffs My15m. The top. Similar to the the Electromotive units of the auto world. Need high degree of intelligence, particularly if you build it yourself. But it allows you complete control over your fuel and timing map + working knowlegde of its internals, 1.5 need not apply.A big plus for us idiots that cannot just leave well enough alone. (Wish I had Cliff's know how..... drool drool....)Not a problem if you really know your shit. Could be a major headache if you want to look cool but are really an idiot. (My personnel favorite, but I have also have used Electromotive units in the past and feel comfortable developing a map from scratch - an inertial dyno really helps though $$$. Although I'm sure Cliff could get a map very close so that a "seasoned" rider could get a real close tune from the seat. Ultimatly it comes down to what you need and want. Simple rider with minor mods, go PCIII with, major mods go Tuneboy, (the name has to change though. personal opinion.) Major mods or your are to smart for your own good, My15M.

Rub a Dub Dub. I had it too. Glued some old innertube to the tank to buffer. No problem since. Cheers.

The teflon pins are great for drag bike, but on a "hopefully" long distance street bike they simple wear to much. I used to see alot of probelms from guys running high output GS1000's on the street. The pin would begin to float to much and scar the small end of the rod, and then piston knock would follow. Good money for a "I told you so" upgrade though. Pete, here in the state's we (I) always called the piston pin clips - "circlips" and the ones with the ears "internal circlips": as opposed to "external circlips", like on trans shafts. But the real buggers are the SpiroLocks. Think of them as key ring for the piston pin. ( like a over lapping circlip.) Very common in the aftermarket auto world, but at least you can put the damn things in with the piston and rod on a bench. As for the shooting circlips.(can't remember who said it, Jim maybe) but get the clip started with your fingers, just one side, hold your thumb in the center, (thus preventing the "cuss and search") and work it slowly in with a small screwdrivers or pick. Since I figured it out I never have had any problems. And definately always follow the 12 or 6 o'clock rule. Cheap insurance. And watch out for this little bastard, saw him in my garage...... making my Scura's paint bubble ....

I am never amazed by what I read here.

Great, now I have to go find the orginal fast idle spring that I replaced with a bic spring. Excellant work.

Hondabond, Yamabond, SuzukiBond..... or 3M 1104. Grey non hardening. Awesome. Used to use it to seal case halves on vertical and horiz split cases. Any dealership should carry it. Or Hylomar. Used to use it with copperhead gaskets. At least it is available at most auto part stores.

Iv'e have used both Shoei and Arai. Arai's just fit my head better. Currently I wear a Rx7rr3. I have always liked the fact that the check pads are availalble in different thicknesses. Make keeping the helmet snug at speed much easier. Arthur Dent. Now that something I haven't heard in a while. I remeber watching the BBC episodes when I was young.

Well I picked up some HD crinkle paint. $12.95 a can. I will probably try it this weekend. I left my camera at work so ya'll will have to wait for some pics. But I will let you know.

It is only heavy when you drop it on your foot.