pete roper

Look at the thread of Breva/Griso info. or whatever I called it . This isn't anything *new*. Yes it's very disappointing that once again some prick in the buying dept. seems to have thought that buying a load of cheap Russian bearings was a smart move. The fact remains that the design is essentially sound. Mike Haven and I have been having a long and angry conversation about how f@ck-witted the accounts dept. is but while it may damage Guzzi's reputation bcause Journos are always ready to have a go at Guzzi, (No advertising revenue = good target.) this is no better or worse than collapsing Kawasaki cyliner heads, the chronic Honda cam-chain problem or the fact that BMW's eat gearbox bearings like a pederast hands out boiled lollies. I'm sorry that you are disappointed that the fact there have been some failures, (supposedly now addressed by buying bearings from people who don't run extermination camps as a sideline.) has caused you to be so sorely disappointed. So be it. One of the first trips I'll be doing on my Griso is a 'Round Oz' number partly because I want to and partly because I have faith in the product. OK, so I'll go through mine first with a fine tooth comb but to be honest I expect to find nothing terribly wrong, although any bearings with cyrilic writing on will be OUT!!!!! Given the fact that nothing on your Breva has so far shat itself, (The problem, even with the crap bearing isn't universal.) I can't see why you're working yourself into a lather about it. By all means write angry letters to Guzzi, with a bit of luck the deadsh!t responsible for the bearing purchase will be given his marching orders! I expect to pay about $22,000AU for my Griso. If it cost $25,000 it wouldn't matter a fig to me, I'd be a lot happier if it cost $25,000 and had decent bearings in it! But I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater simply because some c@nt in purchasing got it wrong. Incidentally the bearing is identical to the one used in BMW's and the seal, although different, can have the BMW equivalent substituted as it, (The seal) is simply a bit deeper, 10.5 as opposed to 8mm or some such, I'll have to re-check Mike's post. Not an issue. Bearing replacement is easy and the bearing itself is available *off the shelf* at any bearing factor. There are a couple of other *Guzzi* issues I can mention but I'll have to leave that until later as it's Jude's birthday and I have to go cook supper! Pete

There was discussion on this a couple of weeks back. Perhaps someone knows where the thread is? I personally still tackle the spine frames in the same way as I do Tonti's. Support the bike on it's sump, remove the swingarm and final drive, disconnect all cables and wires, loosen the two bolts that hold the sub frames to the timing chest, take the bolt out of the frame to gearbox mounting bracket and then pivot the frame on the two timing chest bolts until it is high enough to remove the gearbox off the back of the engine. I haven't had the gearbox out of a V11 yet but t should essentially be the same as the earlier spineframes apart from the need to disconect or remove the clutch slave cylinder from the back of the gearbox before hoicking it out! Pete

Re-reading the *article* I think that the writer was actually tring to make a comparison between the 1100 Sport which has the old five speed, and the V11 which had the six speed. The fact that he can't even get the machine designation right would seem to indicate that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about though. pete

It's got bugger all to do with the final drive, it's all about the engagement dogs in the gearbox. Note also that the author of this piece of drivel states that the LeMans is a quicker steering machine than the earlier V11's, with fatter tyres and a longer wheelbase, yup, right! The author is an idiot. ignore him. pete

I got a bloody great 27mm key ground up specially but the ting is that the plate that covers the filter has a very fine thread form, (For strength.) but it also means that it's prone to seizing, is easy to cross thread and it's hard to judge how tight is *safe*. Even if you do decide to go through this way you still need a special filter wrench th get the old filter out and, yes, if it has previously been over-torqued it can be a right sod to get it off with even a correct filter wrench being prone to slipping off the filter flutes. As I stated in the 'Cheap Oil Filter' thread the service interval specified by the factory is a joke, there is NO need to do it anywhere near as often. I reckon every third change with an oil change interval of 5,000Km, although if you want to you could probably go longer with a synthetic, is being ridiculously conservative. Dropping the pan is so easy it's certainly the way I'd do it if I wasn't already tooled up to do it the *hard* way. The externally accessible oil filter was one of those things that Guzzi did I'm sure because people used to piss and moan about taking the sump off. Just call me Mr. Stupid but I never saw it as an issue? Perhaps because Guzzis were the first bikes I ever owned with an oil filter but it's such a minor task that has to be undertaken so infrequently I simply couldn't see what the fuss was about . The new sump used on the Breva and Griso is arranged so the filter sits in a cavity in the sump accessible from the *Outside* without removing a plate. I reckon it will be a right stinker to get off if it's been overtightened and there isn't even much space to biff a screwdriver through it to wind it off! . Yeah, yeah, all of you who think that everything new is wonderful will say I'm just being an old fuddy-duddy, actually I'm not, I'm just pointing out that there was never anything wrong with the *old* system so I see the change as purely *market* driven and not having a lot to do with good engineering. Before I get howled at I know the plumbing in the *New* sump is entirely different to that in earlier models. I haven't been able to work the system out yet entirely and don't know what the benefits are, or, on the other hand, the downsides! Pete

Just getting back to the original post you say you change your oil and filter every three or four months? Why? There is this ludicrous idea that changing the filter far more often than recommended is somehow benefficial to the motor, it's not, it's simply wasteful. The filter takes out *lumps*, it's not a magical device that shamanically cures all ills inside the motor. It will work perfectly adequately until it becomes clogged. What causes it to become clogged? Simple, bits above a certain size of foreign matter that either break off engine componentry, (eg, bits of piston ring, piston cam follower etc.) or lumps of stuff like varnish and carboniferous crap that tends to form on hot bits like the undersides of pistons and the like and then flake off. In the case of stuff that actually wears in the engine the particles produced are generally too small to be taken out of the oil by the filter anyway, it usually ends up in the second line of defence, the sludge trap in the crank. The carboniferous shit is very small in quantity. The Guzzi donk has very few moving parts that are likely to wear. It doesn't share it's lubricant with a transmission that by it's nature is forever knocking bits off itself and finally it has a HUGE filter. As I said filters work until the ellement becomes so clogged that the oil supply is blocked. When this happens a spring inside the filter that keeps the ellement in shape collapses allowing the oil to by-pass the filtering medium, (The principle being that un-filtered oil is better than no oil at all.) The thing is that it takes an incredibly long time for a big filter like the stock UFI item to reach that point, especially in a *clean* motor like a Guzzi. Look, earlier machines used a much smaller filter so it would have to become loaded more quickly, yes? Well I've cut apart and examined filters that have done 50,000 miles from late model 850T's which were the first model to use a filter but it is often missed as it is generally thought that the T3 was the first model to use a filter. Some people just never checked by examining the sump! In some cases these even had the original 'Blue' UFI filter which hasn't been in production since the mid eighties so I tend to think they were probably the filter that was fitted in Mandello! I have only ONCE seen a filter that showed evidence of bypassing and that was on one of these filtered 850T's that I was repairing after the cam chain sawed it's way out of the timing chest. It had over 200,000Km on it!!!!!! By all means change your filter as often as you like. It won't do any harm, thing is it won't do any good either! A UFI filter costs about $16 AU, if you change it every third oil change, ie every 15,000Km, that works out to be an astonishing $1.08 per 1,000Km! Given that most people run hideously expensive full synthetic oils in their V11's that sort of outlay on a filter hardly seems extravagant! Changing the oil regularly is far more beneficial than changing the filter, especially on machines that may not get used that often and therefore may well end up with more condensation in their insides than those that are gotten good'n'hot on a regular basis. A Filter isn't like a liver, it doesn't remove all the nasty by-products of combustion that are going to really do damage in the engine, neirther will it take oit particulate crud below a certain size and so that remains in suspension in the oil until it is either drained out or caught by the sludge trap, the longer you leave it between change intervals the greater the chance of such stuff ending up in the trap rather than the drain pan! Incidentally, as a testament to the strength and longevity of a well maintained Guzzi motor I currently have in my workshop a Mk I Lemans motor and driveline. The ownr has always been conscientious and scrupulous with maintenance, especially oil changes. The bike has done 200,000 MILES since he bought it nearly new 28 years ago and apart from a re-ring and head service in 1987 this is the first time it's been apart. I am replacing NONE of the bearings! Mains, big ends, little end bushes, cam bearings? They are all still within spec! The rods are still round at both ends and all clearances and tollerances meet book specs!!!! I know this bike is used fairly hard too. How good is that!!!!! It needs new cam followers, new valves and the guides need K-lining. It's also being shouted a set of Gillardoni barrels and pistons as the bores are slightly oval, a new cam chain and a proper tensioner, new oil pump bearings and new bearings in the distributor. A linnish of the crank and it's just going straight back together. He made the right decision to go through it though as the sludge trap was 2/3rds full. Look after your V11's and I see no reason why they shouldn't offer service very nearly as good. Treat them well, but don't pretend that swapping the filter more often than recommended is some magical panacea, it's not. Good oil, (Any bloody sort!) changed often and a sensible maintenance regieme and you'll get a lifetime of faithful service. Pete

As I've tried to say so that people don't panic it isn't a universal problem. It would seem that there was a bad, (read cheap and nasty.) bearings bought by some cretin in goods recievable and some of them are obviously made of compressed buffalo spoof. As far as I can ascertain if they are going to go tits up it seems to occur fairly early in the piece. The two I *know* the history of are the press demo Breva and Griso, both of which shagged the bearing cage while being thrashed by journos. Since they usually get given nearly new machines I'd think that these two failures would of occured within the first 5,000Km. The thing to look out for is spotting or streaking of oil on the rear wheel and/or tyre. As the bearing cage breaks up it pushed bits of itself through the oil seal so a leak develops. The odd thing is that once the seal is munted it doesn't neccesarily throw out huge volumes of oil which I would expect it to do which makes me wonder if the bearing gets sufficient lubrication as everything in the bevelbox is fed by splash Post Dec )5 bikes are supposed to be fitted with a superior bearing. While I wouldn't worry unduly I think that if i had an earlier bike I'd change the bearing out just to be on the safe side but I doubt you'd get that done under warranty unless they do have a recall. Pete

The year was 1973. I was a hot young kid who had just got his first 'Sports Moped' , (Stop laughing up the back! I missed out on getting a real motorbike by about two weeks! Given where this story is going it's probably just as well!). Anyway, back in those days you could still ride around most of Cambridge, (Cambs, England, not Mass. US) so there was I riding my new *bike* up King's Parade, (In front of King's Chapel that you see on all the postcards.) and there on the footpath was Abigail Desmond! I was desperately in lust with Abigail Desmond. A shatteringly beautiful brunnete, (In fact she was probably just another horrid spotty teenage girl but to a horrible spotty teenage boy....???? ) with a pair of very comely udders. I gawked at her and waved, (She completely ignored me!) when I looked back towards the road it was just in time for me to relize that I was about to embed myself in the back of a Morris 1100 which I did with aplomb! I sailed up into the air using my gonads as a launch pad into the back of the tank. It was all very tawdry and dull, It was also the time of 'Loon' pants which had no pockets, and for three weeks I had to wander around with balls the size of grapefruit and the colour of plums with no way of holding the tight trews away from them. F@rk that hurt!!!!! The tank retained the two bollock shaped dents in the back until I sold it to buy my next rolling disaster. I eventually lost one of the bollocks to a surgeon's knife a few years later and I'm truly astonished I could ever sire children, (Actually looking at my revolting brood perhaps I should accuse Jude of adultery and wash my hands of the whole ghastly lot of 'em!). Making a complete c*nt of yourself is all part of growing up. Youth, as the old maxim says, is wasted on the young! The great thing is being able to look back and see exactly what a hopeless little dipsh!t you actually were and laugh at it. It also gives you a LOT more tollerance of your own loathsome offspring. Anything they can f*ck up! I could f*ck it up ten times better when I was their age Pete

OK, to the bast of my knowledge it is part #4 that is going tit's up and pushing it's cage through part #10, the seal. As is shown in the pic none of the *Important* bits are available apart from as an *assembley*. I don'tdoubt that they will be in the future but the good news is that the bearing is reasonably eay to get at. s Pete

I had heard whispers, but nothing concrete, on some of theV11's having soft cams. Certainly to me it sounds like a dead cam and follower to me. Get to it quick, as it's wearing away it will be flinging case hardened shit up the bores and every which way. A lot of the Hydro Cali's that went tits-up ended up needing new *everythings* Pete

I've seen an exploded diagram of it but it was a couple of months ago so it's all a bit hazy, hence my confusion about the bearing purpose. If someone could post up a pic of the drive it would be helpful but essentially the wheel is *dished* if you like and I imagine that the bearing itself, which acts like a wheel bearing, (the wheel itself, mounting to the CARC on studs as a car wheel does to the axle hub) runs in the centreline of the wheel, or bloody close to it. From memory the actual crownwheel and pinion assembley sort of *floats* inside the main case with the crownwheel supported in a bridge assembley on tapered rollers. This in turn fits into the *wheel bearing* on one end and, I suppose, another bearing on the other. The bridge assembley can therefore move within the main case and the pinion carrier end and the box on the whole are sealed at the front by a rubber boot. I too am eager to get a better look at one. The only one I've seen was one of the ones that had dropped this bearing and that was only a fairly brief glance at the importer's workshop in Sydney when I went up to test ride the Breva. Chances are when I get my Griso I'll be pulling the arse end of it out to check it and maybe replace the bearing anyway with something trustworthy but if I do I'll probably do a photo series on it and post it up, most likely on Wildguzzi 'cos posting stuff up there is easy and I know how, and then Jens will probably lift it, turn it into PDF's and post it up on Guzzitech dk. Oh yes, on the speed rating thing I don't think it's an issue. Even if you accept that my rubbery figures are close to correct in terms of speed in RPM at the given road speed the fact is that as you say if the bearing is rated to 6,000rpm constant then you'd be unlikely to broach it's safety envelope. While I expect a Griso or Breva will probably pull 200KPH down a well greased mineshaft with a following gale the fact is that I think it highly unlikely that many, if any of them, will spend much time at that sort of speed. Apart from anything else the idea of trying to hold on at that sort of speed for any length of time makes my eyes water! My guess is that once the tuner boys start warming over the engine what will be being chased is midrange stomp rather than outright top end. On most Guzzis the limiting factor on a *hot* motored bike is the gearing rather than power. If riso owners run out of gears before the rev limiter cuts in the best option would be go to a set of Breva primaries. Pete

Carl, to quote the tech lad at the importer, "Everything in there is typical Moto Guzzi. It's built like a brick sh!thouse and everything is five times larger than it actually needs to be!" Once again I don't think it was the designers who have let the side down, it's the fact that someone in parts sourcing and pricing found some fantastic, cheap, #61917 bearings, (Probbably a water-damaged consignment that had been delivered from Bongo-Bongo Land as deck cargo on a submarine!) on fleabay and snapped 'em up. The fantastic cost saving of $10 per machine made it all worthwhile, NOT! Now they have to deal with all the stupidness that comes as a result, I hope they find whoever was responsible for the purchase and stick his balls in a vice. Why Guzzi continually, decade after decade, make the same mistake I don't know? Perhaps it's the same bloke in parts sourcing who's been responsible for all the problems since 1984? If so it's time he was pensioned off with a pair of concrete boots and dropped off the ferry to Lecco mid lake! Pete

Like I give a f@ck? OK, for anyone who has stuck with the original topic? Yes, you at the back picking your nose! You! Listen and learn. I was wrong about the bearing's function. It seems that within the CARC system the crownwheel is shimmed with tapered roller bearings in a *Bridge*. The actual bearing that goes tits is what stands in for a wheel bearing on an *ordinary* wheel. OK, Pay attention. The Guzzi part # is 92208518. It is a ball race with dimensions of 85 x 120 x 18 and the problem with the cannibal bearings is that the cage is poorly riveted, it stretches and falls to bits digging out the seal as it does so and puting oil on the rear wheel. Unlike my earlier supposition though it WON'T have any effect on then rownwheel and pinion mesh, this is good news. The ISO standard for the bearing is #61917. They come in three types. The steel caged one, one with a polamide cage, (Not good, visit Guzzi Exchange for details.) and a brass caged item. Brass caged item has higher load rating but lower speed rating. Noting that by a very rough calculation the rear wheel is revolving at 5,760RPM, (At 200KPH.) and the steel caged bearing is rated to 6,000RPM I'd stick with a real steel cage bearing made by sombody who doesn't have a bone through their nose. Over here a *real* bearing from SKF or whatever and made in Europe, Japan or the USA will cost about $165, that's to me at trade, I dunno retail. The main reason that I'm passing this on is that after I;d done the research and talked to the local importer I went to my local *Official* dealer to offer him this advice. When asked if he's like a precis he said "No" because thare had been no recall and no service bulletin notifying him of the problem therefore it was all bollocks and I was talking out of my arse. That's fine, I gave him the info in written form anyway so when he does get angry customers on his doorstep at least he *should* have the information if he diddn't simply screw it up and stick it in the bin the moment I was out the door This is NOT a universal problem, but it is usefull to know that there have been at least 10 cases in Oz. Be aware, it's an easy fix for dealers who care. No seals were clubbed in the delivery of this message! Pete

OK, sorry I reopened the can of worms. For the record I don't own a gun and never have, don't fish and don't myself kill anything bigger than insects and the occasional snake. I just find it silly that people get upset that animals get killed and how they are killed. Is being whacked with a blunt instrument really any worse than a captive bolt in a slaughterhouse? I personally think killing whales is stupid and un-neccesary, there are much better and more easily accessible types of meaty protien to be had that don't require blowing something to bits with RPG's to get and I'm aware that the world's resources are finite too, my ecological footprint is very small,. I just get pissed off by whiners and people who want to live in cloud-cuckoo land. I won't mention the subject again unless provoked. No to go and fry up a nice slice of smoked pig for breakfast!!!! Pete

So the bastard comes from Turin and lives in Dublin??? OK, So he's on the list for a good clubbing! Two of the nicest towns in Europe Sod! Pete

Sorry, correction. If you want to bash them to death you have to hold their paws, flippers, whatever while you do it. Does that make a difference???? Pete

I asked Jude, who writes government standards on all sorts of things, including killing them, and I'm afraid that *Blunt Trauma*, (AKA Bashing them with a golf club, baseball bat, cricket bat, log, riffle butt, etc.) is an internationally accepted way of depriving animals of there otherwise worthless and insipid lives! IF IT'S FOR FOOD OR THE BETTERMENT OF MANKIND. I don't approve of whaling per-se, I don't approve of seal clubbing for fun. BUT! I'm sorry, it's going to go on and industry relies on people having money, Moto Guzzi remaining a viable manufacturer is dependent on the world ecconomy ticking over and some seals will be clubbed in that process happening. Jude knits sandals out of brown rice and has a, (Whalebone re-inforced.) bra made of hand combed yogurt but even she realizes that the world is a rotten place where shit happens. We kill to eat, we aren't even nice to our own species! Get over it! It's accepted by every government in the worls but most especially it's accepted by those of countries with the longest and best democratic traditions!!! As an afterthought, I just recieved a nice cap and T-Shirt, along with a huge sticker, from the MG club of Denmark!!! Fantastic! Just in time for me to have a fatwah declared if I go out in public wearing them!!! Never mind, It won't show under my whale-skin waistcoat and otter-hide hat Pete

Bollocks to the world! Lets get on with barbecueing baby whales over huge piles of old car tyres, clear felling the Amazon basin and mugging little old ladies for fun!! C'mon, we're supposed to be big, bad bikies. Lets go slaughter some endangered species! I'm in the mood! Pete

OK, sorry. I've had a bad day. Pete

Oh for f@cks sake. Sell your bike and take up tiddlywinks and reading Women's Day. You need to justify what you ride to anyone??? And feel that having some overpaid tallentless half-wit as an owner of a similar sort of machine is going to give you some sort of knock-on Kudos?????? Jeez, I hope your joking! I really do! Pete

Sorry, I'm still lost on this zinging thing???? Please explain so I can either laugh or get indignant and start putting the stick about Pete

Yes, only the Breva and Griso. The problem is occuring in the bevelbox part of the CARC swingarm. Like earlier bevelboxes the crownwheel is supported in two bearings, it is the one of these closest to the wheel that is giving the problem. Sorry, Jason? What is the relevance of ZING???? Pete

It is, but it's an androgyne and anyway, it's down with the 'Flu'. Hopefully it'll be up and about in time for my fork overhaul piece Pete

C'mon Bill. Respond! I know you're logged on Pete

Errrm? Yes. These are what my good lady wife reffers to as 'Spaniel's Ears' with good reason! While they may be fun to us blokes now they rapidly decend, (In the wost possible way!) into being the 'Looking for the pennies on the pavement' type or what used to be known as NGT's, That's 'National Geographic Tits' or New Guinea Tits' depending on your perspective, neither of which are particularly PC but both are funny Pete