pete roper

Outdated and unnecessary technology. The 15M and 15M RC are open books now. Seek information on Guzzidiag and reader and writer programs.

I don't think so Phil? Just straight cut gears, no scissor gears in any 8V I've had apart.....

Not really? In what way complex? The primary timing system is basically the same as the early loop frame engines, a train of three gears. Secondary system by chains up the rear of the cylinders, a lot neater and simpler than the 'Old' Hi Cam system with the huge, cooling air flow blocking, belt housing with a complex vernier system for the cams, up the front of the cylinders. Third gear, below the crank, drives the oil pumps. One for lubrication, one for cooling. The cooling circuit doesn't have a thermostat for the oil cooler though meaning that these engines run stupidly cool most of the time.

Nope. Never.

The engine will look no different. I can try and post a pic of Mark’s 1400 if you like. Mine will look very similar.

What you refer to as the 'Tear drop' is more commonly known as the 'Flaccid Whale Penis'. I've never really understood this particularly American obsession with Loopframes? To me they have always been ugly, overweight, under braked nightmares. I just don't get it.......

Yup. A whole load of stuff on Calis is purely cosmetic. The sides of the tank that the cutouts are in are themselves cosmetic add-ons. Almost everything about the Cali 14 is retrograde and weighty. It's almost as if the design brief was to produce an overweight pig!

The 1400 motor is, dimensionally, nearly identical to the 1200. The reason it looks so much larger is that the cylinder heads have rocker cover 'Covers' that are purely cosmetic. Block, cylinders, timing system etc. are all pretty much identical but the 1400's cooling system is very different and it uses a different phase sensor and phonic wheel among other things. Biggest difference though is the 1400 uses twin plugs. 1200 only a single, central, plug. Hence the 'Single Sparker' description. And yes. The 1400 I'm building is destined for the Green Horror. As I said I've already built two. The first in in 'Beetle's Griso, the second went into my Stelvio that I have since sold. Filling it into the bike isn't an issue. All the difficulties are 'Internal' as it were.

Griso was made in three sizes. 850, 1100 and 1200. The first two used versions of the venerable two valve per cylinder design, the 1200 used a four valve per cylinder design and a Hi-cam in each head driven by chains from an idler shaft running in place of the camshaft on earlier motors. It is possible, although not easy, to enbiggen the 1200 to 1400 using 1400 pistons from the Cali 1400. It's far from a simple 'Drop in' conversion though. I've built two now. Approaching it from different ways both times. This time I'm going about it yet another way. The biggest issue being differences in the galleries and drains for the cooling oil supply as the 1200 and 1400 motors are completely different in this regard. From 2008 the old 2V motor was phased out and the CARC series bikes all went to the 1200-8V which besides the Griso was used in the Norge, Stelvio and 1200 Sport platforms. Sadly the Piaggio bean counters insisted that the original 8V should use flat tappets. This was a huge mistake as the system failed miserably, ruining the reputation of what is in fact a fine engine. It wasn't until 2013 after three botched attempts to get flat tappets to work that the change was made to the bulletproof roller tappet system then used until the series and engine was discontinued. It's my belief that the motor was originally designed with roller tappets and this penny pinching measure of attempting to use flats seriously undermined the credibility of what could of been a game changer for the Guzzi marque. Sadly, because of this the series never got the sales they deserved and Piaggio decided that Guzzi was not to try and produce interesting and novel bikes and should in future produce toys for hipsters and underpowered and unthreatening mid-weight ADV bikes with uninspiring 2 valve pushrod engines that have the charisma of a dry cow-pat and the performance envelope of a housebrick. Pity.

Whilst of limited interest to most here I thought I'd gauge whether anybody would be interested in a documentary of a single spark 1400 Nuovo Hi-Cam build? I've just acquired a 'Repairable write off' Griso that I'm going to use as a test platform for final development, (I've already built two 1400 single sparkers.). I'm not willing to have my old warhorse off the road while playing silly-buggers with the motor so the idea is I do the build, iron out any problems, then fling the final product in the 'Green Horror'. This will be my swansong. I hope to be retired within a year.

It really depends on how far you want to go and why. For some people simply having Ohlins means something because of the 'Cachet' they perceive as coming with that. For others it's about having the best 'Period correct' equipment. I'm sure there are other reasons too. For me the reason I'm willing to spend what many might consider disproportionately large money on suspension is because, quite frankly, it's the best 'Bang for your buck' money you can part with. If you look at my Griso it has a Matris shock on the back, not the absolute top of the range but pretty close. It wasn't cheap, and then it had to be re-sprung and re-valved because unfortunately, although it is a very nice unit, it was built all wrong by the factory! The front end is even more involved. Although the Showas are a lovely and very easily tuneable fork they seem to have incredibly shitty chrome on the legs. With a view to tackling that I originally decided I'd adapt some Ohlins off another machine and in fact went to all the bother of buying a new bottom yoke and having it bored and getting shims made for the legs to fit them into the top yoke. Thing is Ohlins are murder on both fork seals and fork oil, (No idea why?) and are consequently very labour and time intensive so I sold that front end to someone willing to pay the upkeep and deal with the hassle. Which brought me to where I am today. The fork legs are Sachs off an RSV4. Once again I had to bore and shim the yokes to get them to fit but the chrome is excellent and seal life also better than average. I run Matris cartridges and springs but once again these had to be re-valved to suit. The end result though is that the big green whale actually handles well while at the same time being very comfortable. The Sachs also have the benefit of having the gold paint wank factor and being off an RSV4 I could get a carbon fibre front guard as well to prove to anyone that didn't already know it that I'm a complete tosser! CF on a Guzzi is like shaving an elephant to make it lighter! My Mana was originally one of the worst suspended *Modern* bike's I've ridden. Horrible, non adjustable 'No Name' forks and a rear shock with completely inadequate damping and only rebound adjustability. It was awful! It used to crab and wallow any time it was pushed. That had to be fixed and fast! The answer was a fully adjustable Hyperpro on the back, similar to Phil's Wilburs with both high and low speed adjustment and the front end got a transplant from a Gen 2 Tuono. Yes, they're Showas so I have to keep a good eye on the chrome and they are currently not valves completely right as the HS damping is still slightly harsh but I'll address that when they next get re-sealed. An added benefit was that they take 100mm brakes rather than the 80mm radial calipers used on the original forks. While this may all sound a trifle extreme the fact is that to me it is money well spent. A well suspended machine is not only safer, it is immeasurably more enjoyable to ride and reduces fatigue. I always find it amazing that people will spend sometimes quite serious coin on dubious 'Tuning' and 'Performance' parts for their engines which at best will increase said 'Performance' incrementally whilst completely ignoring the stuff that actually keeps the wheels in contact with the road! Certainly in respect of the bloke who wants to improve his Ballabio if the aim is really good suspension rather than just craving Ohlins I'm sure that even at this remove from manufacture there will be cartridges available that are fully tunable and there is a list of shock manufacturers from the budget to the exotic who can provide any level of sophistication that will be better than the original Sachs shock.

Or reversing that point why was the 1200 Sport called a 'Sport' when it is anything but 'Sporty'?

As I said over on the AF1 forum I didn't think the price utterly outrageous. I mean they will be a direct bolt-on as they are from a basically identical machine. I'm sure that something else could easily be made to work by boring the yokes or shimming the legs and some form of aftermarket shock would be aquireable but chances are it would involve a lot of buggering about and could end up being equally costly. Really, at the end of the day, does he really want or need the top end gear or is he just wanting some extra bling? I know that if I had a V11 I'd probably want to upgrade the suspension but I'm a suspension junkie. What's it worth to your mate? If he changes his bikes like a teenage girl changes clothes then there is really little point. If the V11 is a keeper then it's probably worth coughing for the Cafe Sport suspenders.

Nah, it's an 8V of some sort that's been bastardised by a f@ckwit.

The 'Rule of thumb' for bearing clearance is one thou for every inch of journal diameter. If you're building a commuter engine that is just going to potter you make the clearance towards the smaller end of tolerance, for something that is going to be thrashed mercilessly and produce as much power as possible you go for the larger end of the clearance envelope. The oil may not have as strong a wedge but the greater oil throughput will cool the bearing better. Mr. Finnegan has an excellent reputation but I agree with Phil, it's all 'Old School' stuff. I find myself frustrated by people who still believe that Phil Irving's 'Tuning for Speed' is the ad-ultra of tuning theory. It's an interesting book, but it was written seventy years ago and oddly enough, things have changed. The old Guzzi 2 Valve is a 1950's design so yes, it will respond to 1950's tuning methods, but there's nothing 'New' in any of this stuff.

It's a common enough bearing, just pull it and take it to the local bearing factor.

You are absolutely correct. My apologies. It's early!

Yup.

While it is an interesting historical footnote there was nothing really *Special* about the Guzzi V8. It was just an extension of the philosophy that if you wanted to get 'more' out of the technology that was being used the only real way to do it was to increase the number of cylinders. That isn't to say it wasn't a design masterpiece but the Honda 250-6 of less than a decade later would eat it for breakfast and shit it out in tiny pieces. Todero was, undoubtably, a wonderful engineer, (After leaving Guzzi he went on to design some amazing yachts.) but anyone who has worked on a Guzzi Hi-Cam of the first generation, a Centy or Daytona, which were his swan-song as a designer and engineer, knows that his designs were in many ways deeply flawed. The fact it's so hard for people to ever get the V8's to run properly at demonstrations is testament to this. Even in '56 and '57 it was always a struggle to keep the poxy things running and although wickedly quick I don't think they ever won a race. Whether it could of been made reliable and truly competitive will always remain subject to conjecture as Guzzi withdrew from competition in '57. Coincidentally the year of my birth!

Yeah, the V8 doesn't look nearly so pretty with its fairing off....

27mm. Or you can just drop the sump off.

Brad always seems to be booked out for months as far as I can make out. Rob's good. Well they're both good but Rob is probably going to be easier to get an appointment with.

Bring it to us if you can't find anyone in Vic. pete

I've had a few porous heads on 8V's, the castings are quite thin and the cooling drilling's complicate things. I've had quite good success using Loctite 'Super Wick-in', can't remember the number. Sometimes a smear of epoxy over the top works wonders.

Far too many differences to list. Even between the Sport C and Sport I there are a host of changes. If you can be more specific about what you want to know or what you are thinking might be possible I may be able to help a bit further but if I started down the road of listing the differences A to Z I'd probably still be typing at Easter and remembering other little bits of shit to add.