pete roper

Why would I ‘Forget’ your bike isn’t stock and how does that alter the way that a closed loop system works.? As I said the stock maps are generally rich. At the top end, (High rpm, wide throttle opening .) they are generally sloppy rich, mainly because the designers know that just about the first thing Harry Hometune is going to do is stick pod filters and stupid noisy pipes on it and as a consequence they fling a lot of fuel at it to stop them melting pistons. They just wear rings out instead! I reiterate, if your engine has steps in its power delivery it is tuned and mapped sub-optimally. The causes for that may or may not be map related. They might be the result of poorly thought out modifications to any part of the motor from inlet tract to exhaust length and dimensions. Tuning an engine, any engine, requires looking at it holistically and having a grasp of physics and fluid dynamics. It’s not simply a matter of applying a set of general principles dreamt up in a different age or different technologies. A motor is an air pump but the factors governing its ability to pump most efficiently vary.

On the contrary, improving on the cheap, poorly built, factory tune is easy. If you start off working from the precept that factory maps are 'Lean' you simply don't understand how a closed loop system works. The vast majority of factory maps are not lean but rich. Sometimes stupidly rich. The lambda input will pull fuel out of that map until it reaches the specified AFR. Thing is though that closed loop only operates in certain areas. Most specifically above engine temperature of 60*C, constant throttle, between, or up to about 4,000-4,500rpm. Crack the throttle? Open loop, rich. Cold? Open loop, rich. Above 4,500rpm? Rich! So when you buy a widget to 'Richen it up', or a map from a nong who tells you "They're lean to meet emissions" or simply turns the lambda off? All you are doing is making the motor run sub-optimally. Now if you like the way your bike runs? Good on you! Even though the overfuelling will wear it out quicker. But don't for a minute believe that that series of steps in the power/torque delivery is optimal. Carry on.

So it's got a shit map! Which German? Not that clown who's claiming to get 130+hp out of a flat tappet 1400? Sorry, if I can be bothered I'll go through why this is wrong, again, but there again I'm so over it I don't think I can be arsed. If you want to ride a truly 'Biggus Dickus' V11? Go and ride Chuck's Scura. First thing I did when I bought it was piss off the pod filters and reinstall the stock air box and a standard filter. Yes, it has a PC on it but at the time and with the 15M that was the 'Go To' at that time and it was obviously set up by someone who knew what they were doing and wasn't a snake oil salesman or spiv. That bike is BLOODY AWESOME and it's delivery is extraordinary from nothing to Blurp, Blurp, Blurp! Blasting across West Texas at 'Faster than F*ck' speeds was effortless, riding it in the CA Canyons was a 'Stick it in third and gun it'. The only difference between the 15M and the RC is Lambda input. Other than that it's the same ECU. If you leave the lambda on then the system will always try and trim the fuel to achieve the emissions target. Where does it do this? At operating temperature, (Above 60 degrees C.) and on a constant throttle below about 4,000-4,500 rpm! Screw about with your right wrist and it goes open loop. Above those crank speeds and below that temperature? Open loop! If it feels like it has a 'Step' in its 'Power' at 5,000 and 6,000 and you like that? That's fine. But don't for a moment convince yourself that it's running optimally. It's not. I need to go to bed.

And that is why, after forty years, they have lost me........

The terrible thing is because Jude and I had our flights to the UK cancelled and I didn't buy a Honda CT125 because the shop was so hopeless and it soured me on the whole idea by the time the RS660 arrives here next year I'll have enough money sloshing around to buy one. I'm hoping the Tuono version won't be far behind as I think the 'Sporty' version will be to radical for my old bones. They are gorgeous though. I still have all my old V4 tools still too.....

My 12 year old Mana eats Burgmans like those shitty little biscuits you get at poncy cafe's when you buy a coffee. I also reckon it will probably beat a V85 in a drag race if anyone wants to play that shitty, pointless, game. Guzzi gotta change....

This engine from Aprilia is mooted for a new Touareg too if you're into that sort of thing. 😎

Want. This is what Guzzi should be allowed to build. Not some sclerotic, wheezing, 2V air cooled shitbox.

Nope. Not even close.

This! As I spend an awful lot of time saying about the CARC bikes in general, love them for what they are. Not what they're not! You can make a superb 'Road' bike out of a Griso but even if you could get it to make 130hp, which you can't, it would still be utterly uncompetitive as a track tool. And before people start bleating at me that they've seen Dyno charts showing preposterous claimed power outputs I can assure you that having built a couple of 1400 Hi-Cams now and had Mark log build maps for them there are several things about these 'Super Hi-Cams' that just don't cut the mustard. You want to understand? Sit down with me one day and I'll go through it but I'm not going to waste my time 'splainin' it on the internets because people will still believe in the unicorns because that's what people want! Some of them anyway.....

It doesn't do that because it can't. It's all unicorn farts and blowhardery.

I did an Ohlins modification to a Griso front end but ended up using Sachs forks off an RSV4 with Matris internals on mine. Also have a Matris shock on the back. The bloke I sold the Ohlins too is very happy I believe. Having said that the stock Showas are a spectacularly good fork. They are just terribly sprung and valved on the Griso! There are a host of decent rear shocks around. Order one 20mm longer eye to eye.

I doubt there is much of anything in the oil galleries. The cross-drilling's go from the top of the webs where the trap used to be, all the way through the pin both ways to the front and rear journals. There are then cross drilling's in the pin, (One per rod bearing only. Another weak point in my book.) that intersect with the through drilling's. The through drilling's are sealed with grub screws. ive had a couple of high mileage motors apart and removed those grub screws and had a poke down the galleries with a probe and flushed them out well and there was no detritus in them, not even in the 'Blanked off' part of the gallery so I assume that the engine is dependent on the filter for catching the mank. It also probably explains why a couple of motors have died after we rollerised them. Both of those had done over 60,000km prior to rollerisation and both had significant DLC contamination of the big end shells.

Thanks Docc

8V 1200 crank. 7.1 kg. Probably because it doesn't have the enormous steel penis sticking out the front for the alternator to hang off. [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50399815216_0657dc618d_z.jpg[/img][/url] Also note the absence of a sludge trap in the crankpin. [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50399121498_501d941d47_z.jpg[/img] Big end lubrication is taken care of by two cross-drilling's from the main bearings to the crankpin. I assume that the sludge trap was deleted for cost/saving purposes. They made a lot of bleating noises about how much stiffer the *New* crank was but Guzzi big block cranks have never been whippy like shitty BMW cranks so I think that was just waffle to justify their cheapskatery. [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50399121443_74161b6abf_z.jpg[/img] Someone else will have to open the links up, m not clever enough.

With or without my clothes on?

Would you like me to weigh a 1200 crank for comparison?

I thought that was done to allow for a longer stroke? I'll have to go take a looksee at the bore and stroke figures to see if I'm right. Did the MGS use big bolt Carillos? The 1200 and 1400 'Nuovo Hi Cam' motors both have the same stroke and have the 'Full Length' front to rear idler/jack shaft as the cam drive is taken from the rear of the shaft by chain to the cams rather than the rather inelegant belt arrangement used on the early Hi Cams and MGS-01.

Nah, not smart enough. Sorry.

OK, yes and somehow I didn't get the pic of the bearings right. Let's see if I can get it right now... https://flic.kr/p/2ihMKkp" title=" by -convertpervert-"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49416747353_14de7935b2_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt=""></a>

Sorry, for some reason the pics aren't showin?

It's a 2RS bearing. I think I've got a pic of the lubrication system layout on the 8V. [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49417221471_3d5c8344ac_z.jpg[/img] This is the front, (And rear next to it.) main bearing. While I too hate the supposedly non replaceable front main I'm pretty sure I could sort out a way of fitting the earlier main and allowing the cooler delivery to the under piston sprays. [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49417221476_65ebf9c3e5_z.jpg[/img] You can see the gallery for the oil sprays machined into the case. The bearing is then presumably shrunk in afterwards. [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49416747388_9073576ce6_z.jpg[/img] The case is cross drilled for the spray feeds. [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49417221396_e1f0e64c3a_z.jpg[/img] The jack shaft is now withdrawn from the back unlike the earlier motors and the rear end spins in a needle roller in the cap that bolts to the rear of the case. It is sealed with an o-ring.

Phil, the oil feeds to the camboxes are internal. The lubrication circuit is all internal, it’s only the cooling circuit that travels through the hoses. The cam feeds are up the front inner and rear outer studs.

I have one of those oil temperature dipsticks on my Griso. It was an interesting tool for teaching me exactly how cool the 8V motor generally runs but apart from that it's pretty useless. In reality it's just a bit of bling. As for the V11? Unless there is something grotesquely wrong with it it's never likely to seriously overheat. With regard to a pressure gauge it's easy enough to mount one using a splitter that can be screwed into the original hole the pressure switch goes into. Using a splitter allows you to keep the original light which is a good thing as its far more likely to be noticed than a gauge. Having said that, I'm with Phil. Chances are if you fit a gauge all it will do is frighten you! Idle pressure on a hot engine is pathetically low! The switch at least only illuminates the light at something pathetic like 5PSI but at idle, when hot, the pressure probably won't be much above that! I had both a pressure and temperature gauge on my old SP 1000 simply because it came with them and I fitted a pressure gauge to my little hot-rod I built back in the nineties to try and identify why it kept torching it's big ends! The answer turned out to be that at a certain point close to 10,000 rpm indicated, (By the Vague-Liar tacho, nothing more sophisticated.) the oil pump would cavitate and pressure would drop to almost zero! Not really surprising it had an appetite for big ends! That engine had a 70mm crank with 4mm overlength Carillo rods, specially made forged pistons to get the CR where I wanted it, a stupid cam, Ti pushrods and a whole host of other crap. 40mm Carbs, a lightweight clutch assembly and worked through a low ratio, straight cut ZD gearbox and 7/33 final drive. When I'd got it as right as I could it made 84 rear wheel HP out of 891cc @ 9,800 rpm! And while I think the Dyno was a bit optimistic I reckoned that was pretty good for a 10,000 rpm ditchpump! The thing was after all that time, effort and money I picked up a bone stock, low mileage SP1000 and it was an infinitely more enjoyable bike to ride!😂 I eventually squarefined the motor for a bit more capacity but it was never as much fun as it was as an 891. Shortly after I finished it's squarefin transformation I bought one of the first Griso 1100's to come into Australia. It did everything the hot rod did only better and more reliably and had the benefits of modern suspension, chassis and brakes. Two years after that I bought my current 8V Griso, wrecked out the hot rod and the rest is history, I became an Eight Valve Evangelist and while that engine may of suffered from the flat tappet fiasco its never had any oil pressure, or temperature, problems!😝

Sorry John, I completely forgot about the oil cooler and have been tied up with a heap of other stuff. Mea Culpa. I'll try to get if off today.