pete roper

Interesting debate going on in Cheese. Dunno why some see any positives in any of it. My greatest fear is that it could be an excuse to, if not impose martial law, at least legitimise the suspension of habeous corpus which seems to be at least part of what is occurring in the US. I truly fear what is going on there now. Take care. All of you over there.

Bob, the simple answer is that there is no simple answer. During the decade, (Roughly.) that the V11 was produced the motive unit, (Engine, clutch and gearbox/final drive.) changed barely at all apart from the use of a single plate clutch on some models. The main changes were a swap from open to closed loop engine management, a lengthening of the frame and later addition of extra bracing for the gearbox and most importantly changes to bodywork and suspension components. Apart from that pretty much everything else to my limited knowledge is cosmetic. So which is 'Best'? That is entirely up to you and how you are built, assembled and ride. Also you have to remember that the last V11 rolled off the production line over a decade ago. Unless you are very lucky any bike you buy is going to be far from perfect mechanically no matter what it's cosmetic condition. The 'Short' and 'Long' frames handle really quite differently. Different suspension options and riding positions/control choices make all of the different versions more or less desirable due to countless interacting factors. Asking which is *Best* when examined holistically is really a bit asinine. The question you need to ask is of yourself, and that should be "What do I want from this motorbike?" and from there start asking questions as to whether one or other model is the best starting point.

Oh, yes. That always confuses me being a boring literalist and all that..... Yeah, there is a washer that sits outboard of the needle roller bearing the spindle goes through. The race of that bearing has a hole in, seemingly to deliberately let water in! The washer doesn't have a seal to keep the water out either. Hopeless.

Sorry, is this a trike of some sort? Odd bike to use for a trike?? And how does it have a wheel spindle???

The fact that the gap may increase at other phases in the cycle isn't much of a worry unless it is extreme. My guess is that if other people tried it they'd find that exactly the same thing. All it means is that the base circles aren't ground perfectly which doesn't really matter as long as the clearance doesn't shrink to nothing over the greater part of the base circle. The whole point of of having a clearance is to a.) ensure the valve is allowed to close fully when it's supposed to be closed and b.) to allow a film of lubricant to enter between the cam and lifter to cool and clean during the unloaded part of its work cycle. If your engine's top end has become suddenly more rattly I'd suggest checking the rocker bushes and spindles and ensuring they are getting sufficient lubricant.

This was my first thought. You said that you had the heads off? I take it you replaced them using new head gaskets? When this is done the engine should be warmed up and then left overnight and when fully cooled the rocker gear removed and the heads re-torqued by cracking the nuts loose and then re-tightening them. The valve need re-gapping after this and then the bike should be heat cycled a few times, (Ride it for say ten trips and allow it to cool completely between each trip.) and then the re-torqueing procedure repeated. After that you should be right pretty much forever! The thing is the kingerlite gasket will compress during their initial few heat cycles. As that happens the valve gaps will close up. Re-torqueing will exacerbate this compression and the caps will close up more. After a series of heat cycles the gasket's limit of compressibility will be reached and the clearances will stabilise and cease to change very much.

V11 has a shorter wheelbase and skinnier tyres and will steer quicker. Also as delivered the Griso's forks are under sprung and over damped and they are run far too low in the yokes. You can't see very well in the pic of mine but the forks, which are Sachs off an RSV4 with Matris internals are lifted to six rings through the yokes, that makes a big difference and next time the Matris shock is rebuilt it will get spaced to lift the rear by an inch which improves things even further. The original Sachs shock is once again under sprung and over damped and the valving and damper screws needles are very coarse. Chances are any Griso you have ridden was poorly mapped and quite possibly incorrectly tuned. I remain gobsmacked how even now, fourteen years after the system started being used, the number of W5AM bikes I see that have been seriously messed up because the people who are working on them don't have a clue, not just owners but *Mechanics* as well! There has never been an easier system to tune but still people screw it up and in a lot of cases once screwed it is very difficult to unscrew it! If the early, 1100, Griso had a major failing it was the de-tuning by fitting smaller throttlebodies than the V11 and, oddly, the greater attention to balancing components. The 1100 is in such a high state of refinement that in stock trim it has lost some of the visceral anger of the V11 donk. That was well and truly addressed with the 1200 but it was let down by at first dreadful and eventually better but still uninspiring mapping and of course it was all for nought due to the dreaded flat tappet fiasco! Once rollerised and mapped correctly the 1200 is an awesome powerplant! A true 'Turbo-Tractor' with torque from nothing to rev limiter and a genuine 100 hp at the rear wheel readily available, (Although getting much more out of the motor is difficult due to its cylinder head design and combustion chamber and the cam timing. Best I've seen on they Dyno on mine was 104. Last time, (Years ago!) I dyno'ed it with its current map I got 102. Every stock 8V I've ever put on a dyno has made 96 on the nail. I'm sure that with some cam and head work you could get a few more hp if you're into bragging rights but in doing so you'd sacrifice the linear torque curve and pure driveability. I think Phil's weight estimate, at least for the 8V, is probably a bit optimistic but it doesn't weigh that much more than a V11. Anyway, at the end of the day both designs are now obsolete replaced by the insipid feebleness of the V85 powerplant. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice. It's not a matter of better or worse, just different.

Same here but I'm dumber than dogs hit when it comes to stuff like this.

No, it still uses Hookes couplings the same as they always have. The reactive system is not very different to that of the Spineys it's just that rather than the bevelbox floating on the rear wheel spindle with the reaction rod going from box to frame with the CARC set up the crownwheel and pinion are carried in a reactive bridge Which is contained within the bevelbox castings and the crownwheel support bearings perform the function of wheel bearings as well as the wheel is bolted directly to the crownwheel carrier. The bevelbox part of the system is still heavy because, at the end of the day it is still a bloody great gearbox but it is considerably more compact than a Spiney bevelbox. The reason for the seemingly massive swingarm is that the reactive, 'Up and down' movement of the pinion as it reacts to power and suspension inputs has to take place inside the swingarm. The arm itself is very light. The driveshaft is bulkier than that used on the Spineys because it incorporates the large rubber torsion bush which is the only driveline shock absorber in the 8V transmission.

Yup.

Thanks Jaap. I think John has it in hand at the moment. That looks like the tank logo. There are also smaller ones without the motorbike motif on the fairing.

Not really

Because there is no such thing.

Well that means I can be biased too!

Don't, just don't. if it's an air temperature sensor the lambda input will trim around it in short order. If it's a lambda sensor fooler it will only work in the closed loop portion of the map, badly, and can cause dangerous overfuelling issues as can all of these horrid, not to mention absurdly priced, pieces of shit. Download Guzzidiag, buy some cables, buy or beg a map made by someone who knows what they are doing. It will work better and properly and be cheaper. Oh, and please, never use the term 'Back Pressure' ever again......l

Done. Thanks John.

Thanks John, appreciated.

Dunno what all the hating is about. All the CARC system does is enclose the reactive system inside the swingarm and bevelbox. It is lighter and more compact than the exposed system used on the V11's and the rising rate suspension linkage makes the suspension more subtle and supple than the simple cantilever system used on the Spineys. It does have its downsides in that it is longer overall than the Spiney set up which contributes to the very long wheelbase of the CARC models but really, I'd defy anyone to ride a well mapped 8V, especially a Griso, and come away saying it was anodyne and 'Characterless'. Each to their own.

Thanks John. The owner has contacted Magni but no reply. If your bloke has some files for a cutter that would be great!

John, you don't have any way of replicating the decals do you? The owner wants to repaint and tart it up a bit.

It's a thing from another age. It's beauty is mainly from an engineering standpoint. It was I think the first reactive drive to ever be used on a Guzzi.

And the funny thing is that the Nuovo Hi-Cam runs absurdly cool because it has a separate cooling circuit that doesn't have a thermostat! theycouldnt run a brothel in an army camp!😂

No, not mine. A customer's bike.

Probably the Moto Spezial 'V' sump. From memory it deleted the oil cooler but it did have the pick-up cast in to the bottom of the 'V' so exposing it was pretty difficult. When the CARC bike's were launched Guzzi actually said that the sump had been re-designed to prevent pick up exposure, (Although it was hidden way down in some press release. Heaven forbid they admit that the earlier design was shite!). The later system the pick up, although it still comes down from above, sits slightly recessed in the casting and has a cast in weir behind it to discourage the rearward slop of oil. It seems to work as I haven't heard of anybody having the 'Flickering oil light of death' on a CARC bike.

DRINK!