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Everything posted by pete roper
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A popular mod on Grisos is drilling the airbox lid or removing it entirely. It is, without a doubt, one of the most spectacularly useless modifications one can make achieving nothing apart from exposing the filter to the risk of damage. Adding a rock strainer filter as well is also popular with the only 'Benefits' being a lot of tiring noise and rapid ring and bore wear! Very early in the piece I tried the airbox lid trick on my 1200, why not? Lids are cheap and it was a lazy five minutes with a hole saw. A trip to the dyno revealed a staggering peak power increase of 0.2 hp and the torque curve looked like the trail left by a drunken spider dipped in ink! Couldn't be arsed harassing anyone to build a specific map for such a mod, just slapped the unmodified lid back on and called it good. Since then a lot more experimentation has been done and we've found the best combination to be stock airbox and filter, snorkel removed and a proper log built map. I'd bet a motza that the same would be true of the V11 airbox but without the snorkel deletion as they don't have one.
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Oh, and the same goes for 'Flat' replacements for the stock filter by K & N or whoever. Labyrinth filters *work*, again using the word advisedly, by forcing the air to twist and turn around the filter media. The actual 'Holes' in the filter are huge, this is why you can effectively see through them. The way they are supposed to work is that as the air twists and turns through the media any particulate matter having greater mass and therefore inertia will try to keep going straight and in doing so will collide with the oily medium of the filter's structure and stick to it. Great theory. In practice it's pretty much useless. If you want to dust your motor, short of shovelling sand down the throttle bodies fitting a labyrinth filter is a pretty close second!
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https://shop.tlm.nl/en/used-rear-drive-7-33-cal-3-us-17350250a-moto-guzzi (Shrug.) found this in two minutes.
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If there was one thing I'd like to see made punishable by tarring and feathering it's throwing away air boxes and fitting 'Pods'. Pod filters, especially labyrinth filters like K & N's, are the work of the devil and should be ruthlessly stamped out!
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It can get pretty hot here and even in traffic I've never had any issues with 4 & 6 thou clearances on any Squarefin motor. Roundfins need a thou or two more due to their cast iron/HCS rocker supports but even their 8 & 8 are absurd, I run 5 & 7 with them. The early Hi-Cams I don't have enough experience with to know the subtle nuances of necessary valve clearances but the 'Nuovo 8V' works fine with 4 & 6 and in fact the gaps actually open up with heat. It's very sensitive to changes in valve lash though. Sensitive enough to run poorly if they are wrong and you're running an open loop map.
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2 & 4 thou we're the ridiculously tight specs for the US market to try and get past noise regs. It was t really necessary in the end. As for using the bigger clearances? Why? Why would you want to reduce lift and duration on an old 2 valve dunger like the Ditcpump?
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I thought they'd done away with TDC markings by the time the V11 came out? I mean what would be the point of any sort of timing marks? The spark, along with the injection pulse signal, is governed by the phase sensor and phonic wheel and its input is non adjustable although how it is interpreted and how the ECU processes the information is adjustable in the map. For setting the valve lash just turn the motor by hand until you see the inlet valve close and then pull it round until the piston is very close to TDC. This can be established by the drinking straw method or simply by feel once you have the hang of it. The piston doesn't need to be *Exactly* at top dead to set the valves. As long as the tappets are on the base circle of the cam lobes that's all you need. Clearances are 4 & 6 thou.
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Any model from the T3 through to the T5, all the Tonti framed LeMans and the Cali II all used the 7/33 ratio final drive. If going down the route of seeking a complete bevelbox be aware the the earlier drum rear brake 850T not only uses a different ratio, (8/35 from memory?) but also has a thinner flange on the pinion carrier and uses different pinion bearings meaning if it is going to be used with a later swingarm it will need a spacer making up to fit it. Also fitting any of these bevelboxes to the EV will require the swapping of the axle spacer in the box, (From memory.). It is nowadays getting hard to find a decent 7/33 from an earlier bike. Most of them the pinion splines are munted through age and abuse and often the pinion teeth will be pitted. Caveat emptor. The alternative is to purchase a new 7/33 gear set and build a new box.€416 from TLM but you'll need shims, bearings etc.
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That would be the aim. I'd think if one was to do it on a regular basis it would be worth cutting a rod the correct length. That would probably need a bit of experimentation. It is one of the few disadvantages of hydraulic clutch activation, the lack of a cable which is easily adjustable means that tolerances of parts like a clutch pushrod are far more critical.
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No guru hood here, I prefer being a fat, drunken disgrace. Sorry, but that's about the sum total of my knowledge on the issue but if I do remember anything else I'll haul myself out of my alcohol fueled stupor and if my DT's allow it I'll type up an update......
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I know Mike also re-used the original single plater out of the Scura RC for one bloke who was adamant that he wanted to retain the single plater. The steel flywheel option is, I believe, based around utilising a heavily lightened version of the single plate flywheel that was used on early Hydro Cali 1100's in 2002/3. These unfortunately had really shitty friction plates that tended to wear out in a few hundred miles. In fact there was actually a recall I believe? As to what had to be done to them to lighten them and what friction plate/material should be used I have no idea but if you can find one of those take-off clutch/flywheel assemblies it would probably be a good starting point. Pete
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No worries. Personally I like a bit of flywheel on my Guzzis, my old SP had an Eldo flywheel in it! Drop one of those on yer foot and you'll never walk again! I'm not experienced enough with the V11 single platers to know how different they are but on my 1100 Griso, which uses the same 'Lightweight' flywheel as the V11's I always thought, if anything, a bit more mass would be nice. With the 8V the earlier single plate clutch/flywheel assemblies were very slightly more massive than the twin plater they replaced but require a really quite heavy pull at the lever. The design was revised once with a lighter diaphragm and the pull reduced slightly but then in about 2012/13 all the 8V's started using the Cali 14 assembly which is noticeably heavier but has a much lighter pull. It's what I've got in both my Griso and 1400 motored Stelvio and I actually prefer the extra mass and the lighter pull is magic for my arthritic old claws! As I said, simply a personal preference.
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Sorry, the point I was trying to make was you can use essentially any clutch/flywheel assembly from virtually any 1100 model but care has to be taken that the correct input hub is used and that the hubs used on both the five speed and the later 'Three Shaft' six speed as used on the pushrod engined CARC bikes won't work on the V11 'Four Shaft' gearbox so if a clutch assembly off say a Breva 1100 is used, while it is identical the input shaft boss, if supplied with the clutch assembly, won't work and will need to have the correct one substituted. Pete
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Swapping out the gearbox input boss is the only other thing you need to do. From memory the boss for the twin plater used on the V11 has a shorter spigot, (The bit the seal runs on.) than the one for either the five speed box or the later six speed used on the CARC bikes. I'd just make sure you check the part #'s to ensure you get the right one. Other than that it's a straight swap. My personal and entirely unsolicited opinion is that the difference in performance between the grenade like factory single plater, it's aftermarket cousin and the tried and tested twin plater that had been used in eight and ten spring form since pterodactyls were laying eggs is so negligible that especially on a street bike the risk/cost benefit analysis makes the twin plater a far better option. That's why the Scura RC has one in, (Along with the stock airbox, filter etc.) Pete
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Keeping the Clutch Disengaged / Bike in 1st at a Stoplight
pete roper replied to Kane's topic in Technical Topics
Not good for any part of the clutch mechanism from the thrust bearing to the input hub. Yes the 'Safety' crew in training courses suggest it, that's because their main concern is 'Safety'! From a mechanical and component longevity point of view though sitting with the clutch pulled in at lights, or anywhere else, is murder. Especially if whoever has tuned the bike is one of those mouth-breathers who sets the idle speed as low as they can because it 'Sounds cool'! -
Thing is guys your cars aren't stuffed full of identical technology and you never give it a second thought! Why worry about it on your bikes.
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Just a heads up to anyone who buys one of these things. Local Bloke has one, fitted a new rear tyre from a different manufacturer and it threw a service warning ⚠️ and refused to engage the cruise control. Dealer, (The importer's shop.) was useless. They "Plugged in the computer" and it didn't tell them anything so they pushed him out the door with a shrug and the dash still lit up like a Christmas tree. Back in Bunged End I ran into him in the pub and as he bemoaned this I suggested checking clutch and brake switches as faults with these will disable the cruise but then it dawned on me, "Did you recalibrate the TC after the new tyre was fitted?" "No." "OK, try that on the way home." Problem fixed. Now if you replace the tyres as matched pairs, even if they are of a different brand, chances are the circumferential difference betwixt front and rear won't be enough to make it have a spazz. If you just replace one tyre with a different brand, even if the profile is nominally the same, it must push the TC out of its comfort zone, hence the ⚠️ and lack of cruise.
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Gimme an address. I'll send you one and you can take it and brandish it at your local parts house and get a x-reference. All you need is is a switch that is closed at rest. All switches tend to operate between 0.8 and 1.5 bar which is bugger all. The PS 039 cracks at 1.5 bar I think and has a larger, 22mm hex than the one originally used by Guzzi which was 19 from memory. Thing is as long as it actually cracks any pressure is pretty much OK. A healthy engine will, even at a hot idle, reach that unless there is something wrong with it or the idle speed is way too low. Pete
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It's an aftermarket brand, probably made in China I'd guess but Tridon are a huge aftermarket concern, their catalog is about a foot thick!
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The coarse thread ones can be substituted with a Tridon PS039
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How many grand are you out of pocket? How many bikes have you seen #@$&@#@ by incompetence? No worries. I give a @#!#$# what shit people do to their bikes but I'm certainly not going to encourage it. Out.
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S'not your fault Yank banks are even more cretinous than those elsewhere. It was a pain in the quoit for both of us but there was never any I'll will. Being shilled and exploited by smug crooks who are selling stuff they don't understand and stuff that doesn't work? That's different. As far as hopping up V11's is concerned I've never ridden one that comes close to Chuck's Scura which is utterly bonkers. I also don't understand those that get all hung up on HP figures. There are lots of people building or who have built 1400 8V's. Some simply transplant the 1400 donk from the Cali into a different chassis and use the full 7SM/Single throttlebody system, some actually build 1400 barrels and pistons onto a 1200 motor. The one thing that the vast majority of them do is claim stupid, unfeasible, HP figures. Figures that simply aren't possible from an engine with the 8V's heads and cams. When people ask me how much power a 1200 8V makes I'll say 'About 100.' Ask me the same question about the 1400 and you'll get the same answer. The difference isn't really in the peak power, (The 1200 will happily run to 9K. I'd be loath to try that with the 14.) it's in the torque and how it is delivered. The V11 motor is pretty much peaked out as far as longevity is concerned. Yes, you can get it to make more, (Not huge amounts more, but more.) but start pulling much bigger figures and it will loose its reliability and longevity pretty quickly. Pete
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Even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes. If people want to use Todd's services? That's fine. I have seen his 'Maps'. I laugh. How many bikes do you see for sale in SoCal and one of the selling points is they have this shit installed, recently? If it's so good why do people seem so keen to sell? Yes. He stiffed me. Twice. More fool me. No love lost.
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Unless you have made extensive mods you'll probably find someone has a map that will work. If it doesn't get some logging gear and WBO sensors and 'Roll your own' with Tunerpro. Sorry, I don't know who is 'Good' in the US but I know a charlatan when I see one.