pete roper

Dave. If I was in your position and had experienced what you had I'd be a bit testy too If I may I'd like to tell you a bit of what is happening in my head at the moment. Firstly. I own two 8V Grisos. One here in Oz, (The 'Griso Verde') and one in the USA, (The 'Griso Pinko') Both of them are '08 models, same as yours. Both of them fell within the range of the Cam recall but neither of mine ever had any problems. Certainly the Griso Pinko was got to before it had a chance to lunch its tappets and there certainly seems to have been a very, very high incidence of failure with the early ones. That being the case, why did mine manage to soldier on for almost 30,000Km without going wrong? Perhaps I was lucky. I should really go and get one of my original tappets tested to see if I was just super lucky and got four that were properly hardened. Perhaps though a contributing factor was that because I KNEW it was a new design I grossly over-serviced it and observed what I found right from the get-go. I adjusted the tappets about five or six times in the first 5,000Kms just to find out what was happening in the 'New' top end, so the valves were always kept very close to spec. I also found that the A5 motor cams are very agressive and have VERY short rampings, or at least mine did. That means that clearances are critical. Could it simply be that a HUGE percentage of the problems were down to the so called 'Dealers' and 'Mechanics' who are supposed to work on these bits of shit simply never bothering to do the routine inspections? Probably not, but I'll bet you a blunderbus full of barnacles that it would of been a contributory factor! AT THE END OF THE DAY THOUGH, I DON'T F#CKING KNOW! Very early in the piece I found that the light throttle/low load fuelling was very ordinary. All the data I could get from the factory tooling told me it was tuned correctly. I was, I admit, perplexed. Shortly after I bought the Griso Verde, (Which was then Bianco!) the factory issed a map upgrade but I was tld this was super-hush-hush and very secret as it wasn't approved for 'Road Use' and installing it could leave anyne installing it wide open to having the enviro-nazis camp on their bank ballance. But nowhere in the tooling does it tell you 'Off Road/Track Use' Only. Fuggit! Stick it in. It made things better. A fair bit better, but still not brilliant. About *x* months after that there was another upgrade released, the #68 map. In both the Griso Verde and the Griso Pinko I have this map in bikes that are otherwise bog stock apart from aftermarket pipes. The Verde has the factory Termi, the Pinko has a Mistral Hi-Pipe. Both of them run brilliantly just tuned 'As Per Book'. I'm sure that they can be made to make marginally more power, but a a quite severe cost, for reasons I won't go into here. Just let it be said that I feel no need to use any sort of 'Aftermarket Add On' to either of them. What has driven me almost to the point of picking up my bat and ball, spitting the dummy and walking off the field is a combination of many factors. For one, despite the fact that I am internationally recognised as somewhat of an authority on Guzzi's products, (I'm not going to indulge in any false modesty here, it's a fact.) I am by no means universally liked in Oz. I'm seen as a pain in the arse and a thorn in the side of many owners and more importantly dealers. why? Because I'm sorry, but I fix stuff. Stuff that other dealers have charged large sums of money for fucking up? I can usually fix in less than a day, sometimes, as in the case of the bloke who FLEW me up to Brisbane last Monday, it takes me a lot less time. I fixed his problem in under an hour! While this is great and it IS very gratifying to find that I am very often right and my fixes usually work, (I'm not a miracle worker, I make mistakes too sometimes.) and my customers are grateful it DOES seem to engender a lot of resentment from idiots and fucktards, especially those who have considered themselves to be the 'Big I Am' in their field for many years. Secondly I am sick and tired of being told I'm wrong by people whose bikes are broken. If they are so bloody smart why are their bikes broken or running like shit while mine run perfectly! It's tiresome and insulting as well as being downright bloody daft!!!! Thirdly, my *reward* for the effort and time I put in fixing @#!#$#-ups from other people is to be told that I can't actually sell the bikes because I don't have a flash showroom. Never mind that most local people who purchase Guzzis usually bring them out to me to have a proper PD done on them! Never mind that I get all the warranty work that pays shit. Never mind the fact that I've bought the tooling, (Not just Navigator, I'm probably the ONLY workshop in Oz, with the possible exception of Mario in Perth, that has all the neccessary tools to do a clutch replacement on an 8V and a correct CARC disassembley.). Navigator itself I only bought because the Axone tool I had been promised was a long term proposition three years ago when I bought it, for $3,000+. Then I was told it would no longer be supported and had to shell out another $3,500 for Navigator. AND I pay a 'Subscription' fee of $500 for access to the Sevicemotoguzzi site, (A joke!) and the upgrades for Navigator, a tool so useless that it doesn't even have the correct codes for reseting the service icons on the dashboards of the new bikes in!!!!! NOT MUCH OF AN INCENTIVE TO KEEP BOTHERING IS THERE? So why do I do it? No doubt people will say that I get discounts on parts at trade and I've bought three motorbikes at dealer cost. Yes, I have. Believe me the 'Savings' I've made don't even come close to the investment I've made! Not even the fact that having the factory tooling makes sense really. Yes, it means I can download maps, (The only thing that VDSTS can't do that Navigator does.) and early in the piece this was important to me because I knew damn well that none of the so-called dealers anywhere around here would be capable of doing it, and if they tried they'd probably insist on 'Servicing' and 'Tuning' my bike for me, (Shudder! Heaven forbid!) Well right now I'm just about at the pint where I'm really feeling 'What's the point?'. And you know the answer? There isn't one. I feel I'm beating my head against a brick wall and stressing myself half to dath about something I simply don't care about any more. as I said. My bikes run fantastically. I can't see why I should try and hold up the crumbling edifice that is Piaggio service. I actually think that our importer here, by world standards, is quite good. And Dan. the tech boy, is a nice lad and is helpfull. Compared to your situation where you got royally reamed by a 'tard and the ONLY reason you eventually got your poor old tart to run half way decently was because some idiot on the other side of the world sent you the factory tooling so you could do it yourself I think it speaks volumes. It doesn't alter tha fact that despite the fact that the current models are superb and the Nuovo Hi-Cam, especially in the Griso, is such a HUGE step forward for the company in terms of performance, build quality and reliability all that will count for nothing, less than nothing, if the dealership network and the factory's information dissemination system remains in the stone age. I'm spending August in the USA. There is a VERY good chance that after I come back I will vanish, from the trade, from the innerneck boards, possibly, if Tony Abbot is elected as our next prime minister from any country that has a telephone system that works, plumbing or even rudimentary housing! There is a cave up on the North Eastern tip of Tasmania near Cape Grim that is looking pretty fucking attractive at the moment. The world, and especially the motorbike world and the people who inhabit it, sucks a lot at the moment. I want out I think....... I'm really sorry your experience with the 8VG has soured you against it. Of course I can understand why. I just wish i could do something other than whinge to rebuild your faith in the marque. The problem is I don't think in all honesty I can...... Pete

Dave, the non-starting issue is something I have NO experience of. BUT there has been considerable discussion of it over on Guzzitech and Mike Haven posted on WG about the problem. It seems that despite years of practice Guzzi still feed the starter relay feed for both trigger and delivery through the ignition circuit. Voltage drop and wear and tear/corrosion can cause problems, along with industrial cretinism! Hop over to Guzzitech, there is a quite recent thread on it, (Which I haven't been following.) but I think that there is a link there to Mike's WG post and fix-it. If Mike reckons he's found the cause? I reckon that's as good a source as you're likely to get. Much better than my usual blitherings! Pete

Dave, don't frett, snot an issue I know how time gets away. Get it off to Denis and then it can be passed on. really though if you need it back all you'll have to do is holler'. the other thing is that now your bike has the #68 map in it all it should need from now on is the occasional TPS check etc. all that can be done easily and cheaply with the VDSTS software. pete

Dave? Any chance of my Axone winging its way across the pond? The natives are getting restless? Pete

DeBen. Check yer PM's on the 'Prilla board. pete

Sorry Keith. The A5 and A8 motors are the two current itterations of the 'new' 8V donk. all the 2008-2009 models used the A5. Outwardly identical the differences are simply down to the cams between the two. Strangely though although the cam timing, lift and profiles are different the factory seems to use the same mapping for Grisos with both the A5 motor and the A8, Which is fitted to all 2010 models. My guess is that originally they were going to run with the A8 but it wouldn't break the 'Magic' 100RWHP mark that pencilnecks crave so they cammed it up a bit to get it to the ton and started selling it. Problem was the map didn't work, hence the upgrades for 2008-9 machines. The 2010 A8 motored bikes I've ridden, both Griso and 1200 Sport 4V, fuel up very, very nicely straight out of the box. But they do lack a bit of the top end kick that the A5 motor has. while I've got my two A5 motored Grisos running in a manner perfectly satisfactory to me I think that many 'Modern' motorcyclists would prefer the smoother, almost anodyne characteristics of the A8 motor. As for model descriptions?? You tell me! The Griso 12 is described as an 8V but both the Stelvio and 1200 Sport are described as 4V andI think the Norge is going to be an 8V too?? Buggered if I know what they're playing at. Marketing dept couldn't wipe it's arse if someone else guided their hand I reckon....... Pete PS. As to ergonomics of the new bikes? That's obviously a very personal thing. If the factory designers had been given a brief to build a bike specifically for ME they couldn't of done a better job than the 8VG. It fits and suits me like a glove. Only Ergo changes I've made I in fact did yesterday fitting some lowered footpegs which should stop my poor old knees cramping on long journeys. Only problem is that I'll be getting through sets of boots even quicker now as even with the (Incorrect.) 190 section tyre on it I drag my feet constantly with thestock pegs.

The 8V's use a different gearbox to the earlier CARC bikes. All the CARC's themselves are identical apart from colour, Gearing changes on the earlier bikes were achieved with different primary ratios. AFAIK all the 8V gearboxes use identical primaries and I believe that all the other ratios are the same too but I'll have to double check that with the parts lists. Pete

I think that it may be one of a couple of issues. 1.) set up. as usual. 2.) all the 2010 models use the A8 motor with softer cams and, at least on the Grisos, the same mapping as far as I can make out. The A8 motored bikes all seem to run very sweetly straight out of the box. Certainly they don't appear to display any of the signs of what most people seem to describe as 'Surging', (Something I've never been able to put a finger on.) but they also seem to lack the real 'Kick In The Pants', (in Guzzi terms ) that the A5 motored bikes have. I feel that I flog the hobby-horse of the new motor too hard sometimes. Thing is I love it. Certainly on my two 8VG's with the A5 motor they give NOTHING away to the older 2VPC donk in Griso/Breva/Sport/Norge form but once you're above 5,500 they just romp away over the horizon. In the same way that people shat on the V11 when it first came out because it wasn't like earlier Guzzis, (Which had been shat on for over a decade because they were seen as underpowered, slow steering anachronisms. And by Guzzi owners as well as the 'Press'.) it now seems that even though the 8V motor is the answer to a maiden's prayer as far as what most owners of earlier models have been asking for, (100+ RWHP in a solid chassis with top end rush, a six speed box and decent suspension.) it is still going to get sht-canned by a new generation of crusty old corn-cob pipists and assholles who think that all development stopped shortly after the introduction of the model 'T' Ford. I'd love to see a new Guzzi 'Sports' bike a-la LeMans. I think Piaggio are fucking barmy not to build one. But the top of the range of the current models are really very, very good motorbikes. Griso 12 is top of my list, followed by the Bellagio and the 1200 Sport. all the rest are also rans and we won't even start to talk about the smallblocks . The FACT is that regardless of who owns or designs 'em. Regardless if Guzzi is now a 'Brand' under Piaggio. The New Guzzis are, on the whole, fucking superb. Try it. You might like it. If you don't? there are a zillion other boring, soul-less, tedious, rent-an-image, motorbikes out there. f@ck off and ride one of them and let the brand die. I'll be riding mine until i can't hold the fuckers up any more. Loop, Tonti, Hi-Cam? Yeah. I love 'em all. and you know what? Every single one has been better than the last. Pete

Can't be of much help with this as I've only ridden one 1200 Sport 8V but it is essentially the same powerplant as the 8VGand the one I rode was similar in performance. I'd suggest there is something not right with it but what?I can't say. Pete

If you chop their fins and tails off you can stick 'em in a really big bun and cover 'em with onions and tomato sauce and they are JUST like a great big hot-dog!!!!! Pete

Send me yer vin#, address etc. and I'll slap in a warranty claim on it and send you my spare/stocker. As Dave says, the sensor is the little black widget bolted to the inside top of the CARC adjacent to the wheel. Follow the black wire that runs beside the brake line to it, it's held in place by 2 x 3mm(?) allen bolts. Follow the wire up under the plastic and it plugs into a connector under the seat. When you get the new one I suggest sealing it yourself prior to installation with some sort of proprietory sealant to make sure the water can't get in. Pete

Speedo sensors are complete shit. Some of 'em seem to work forever, some fall in a sceaming heap at the first drop of rain. Some of 'em seem to dry out and work again, some of 'em don't. Warranty it and seal the new one carefully with a hot glue gun or even some silastic, especially around the bit where the cable enters the sensor. Mine only does it if I leave it out in the rain! If I ride in the rain, presumably 'cos the rear wheel creates a vortex that keeps the sensor dry, it keeps working. Then it will start working again when it dries out. As for the butterfly? You collected it while riding. Look at the pic below and you'll see there is a gllery/vent into the spark plug recess in the head from the front to the back to allow a flow of air through the casting. You probably smacked into it at speed and it got blown right through! Pete

No sainthood involved. I'm just yer standard run-of-the-mill curmudgeonly Guzzi owning c@nt. Some things though are more important than recouping the cost of a motorbike. Pete

A long time innerneck pal of mine has just learnt that his 11 YO son has Acute Myeloid Leukemia. Things are going to be real tough for him and his family over the next, well, ages. Money will be at a premium obviously so I've decided to sell my Scura and donate the money directly to him and his family. It'll save me having to ship it to New Zealand anyways. Scura is in LA but can be sent anywhere in the lower 48 easily enough, it has more upgrades than an airliner full of BP executives and goes like shit off a shiny shovel. I'll take 5 grand for it. If nobody comes at that I'll arrange another 'Not A Raffle' for it and get rid of it that way. Anybody interested PM me on this board, WG, the Gloomy board, here or just email me motomodaoptusnet.com.au. Pete Roper Motomoda 23, King St. Bungendore. NSW 2621 Australia. (+61)417 462 440

Take Axone. Show people how simple it is. Become Ireland's Guzzi God! Pete

I'll be interested to hear your views on the 1200 Sport 8V. The one I rode was bone stock but its fuelling was a revelation. Absolutely beautiful straight out of the crate! Make sure that your 8VG gets the #68 map, it makes a huge improvement to the overall fuelling. pete

This is one of the reasons I've been thinking of removing my ear-ring. I've had it since 1975 but nowadays all the people I see with ear-rings are f@cksticks who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. On the one hand I don't want to be 'Pressured' into removing it simply because silly c#nts have them but on the other hand I haven't owned a pair of blue jeans for well over twenty years because they became the trousers of choice for the dim and desperately conservative so why should my feelings about my choice of personal adornment be any different.....????? Pete

Dunno fer shure. It's your choice. Personally I'm glad I got mine when I was young. They've aged with me and contain a lot of memories. Would I have another? I've been toying with getting Jude's name further up on my arm but I think it might actually look a bit daft, especially as it would be a *new* Tat on my now distinctly in-elastic skin. I also have a feeling that another tat at my age, no matter what its subject matter, might make me look like a desperate, sad, try-hard. Obviously at this point in time I resemble a youthfull Greek God of antiquity but i realize we can't all be so lucky..... Pete

I've only ridden one 1200 Sport 8V. It's not as 'Sporty' as the Griso but it fueled up superbly straight out of the box. I was amazed by how good it was. Pete

Now yer gettin there! Thank Christ! Two years and countless f@ck-ups and it FINALLY looks like you're going to start enjoying the bike. As I've previously said, the 8V motor is a wonderful thing and a well set up Griso of ANY sort is a sublime experience. I just can't for the life of me understand how Yer Maun managed to cock things up quite so comprehensively? You've now used Axone? It's not rocket science is it? Shit! If I can use it, or Navigator, it can't be *too* hard can it??? Pete

Thanks Skeve. Yes. Jude's much loved and missed Mum died. Not unexpected but still harrowing. S'all good now, we burnt her last week. Now its just dealing with the legals which unfortunately all devolves to us as the other executor, Jude's sister, is about as much use as a latex glass-cutter. While I'll x-post replies here if people want I'll probably mainly be helping Dave, if I can, through the Gloomy board for the simple reason that V11.com is very, very slow on my 'pooter. This si such a huge, olympic standard f@ckup by the supposed 'Technician' involved it begars belief! What really worries me more though is I'm getting increasing feedback and reports from other people in the UK that even some of the long established and highly respoected dealers simply don't have any staff who have the faintest idea as to how the W5.9 equipped bikes work and are relying on the old fallback of "Oh we never plug in the diagnostics unless there's something wrong." routine to cover their ignorance. The fact that Dave has also been consistently given the bum's rush by the importer is also deeply troubling and means that at the end of the day he's been left with a VERY expensive motorbike that has been wantonly screwed up by an idiot purporting to be an 'Official Service Agent' and a now expired warranty. The real tragedy is that the 8v motor and the Griso as a platform for it IS superb! In my mind it is without a doubt the BEST Guzzi to have been produced in damn near thirty years, certainly in a quarter of a century, and to have the experience of ownership so comprehensively screwed up by ignorance and idiocy just HAS to be a very bitter pill to swallow. Pete Pete

The problem is that the idiot who was supposed to be servicing it #@$&@#@ about with the 'Sacred Screw' It now also seems as if he has #@$&@#@ about with the throttle linkage too so we have to get the thing back to, or close to, the original settings. OK first thing. Ballance the TB's. It is unlikely that said 'Tard knew the location of the air bleeds and they are tricky to adjust anyway so it would probably of been beyond his ken. So, step one. Set tappets. Step two. Connect up the vacuum guages or twinmax to the ports on the inlet manifolds and with the engine warm get the TB's ballanced using the linkage rod at 3,000RPM. This will require holding the throttle slightly open which means the stepper is no longer relevant. Once you have the TB's ballanced at 3,000 you'll probably find that they are VERY close at idle as long as the aforementioned fuckwad hasn't pissed about with the air bleeds which as I said is unlikely. Now see where Axone says the TPS is sitting at and using the 'Sacred Screw. The throttle stop screw on the left hand TB. adjust it back so that it sits back at 4.6 degrees. All of the 8V engined bikes I have dealt with, Grisos and Stelvios, have come out of the factory with their TB's pretty much spot on and their TPS's set correctly. As long as the idiot hasn't used the Axone or Navigator to re-set the TPS at any point, (And I believe you've said that this is highly unlikely.) then this will just 'Reverse Engineer' all the previous adjustments and get you back in the ballpark so you can start near enough from scratch. Give it a go and get back to me. Pete

Which map is it running? And who is your dealer?

Irregular noises are a no-no. Mine sounds like a cement mixer full of bricks but they are regular bricks! Obvious questions. Is it eligible for the cam recall work and if so has this been carried out? As well as the cams and tappets the recall also included new plug caps as the originals, which have three sealing rings, were almost impossible to get out without damaging them. The replacements had two rings but can still be a right sod to get out. You can replace them with NGK SBO5E caps which are a lot more resistant to damage. Also because they are a resistor plug cap on a resistor plug the resistance in the system is....uh... high. It is not unknown for the sparks to simply blow their way through the caps in the search for an easier earth path. Until you've found out if it's eligible for the cam recall work any other suggestions are pointless. Get back to me when they've checked for you. Pete