pete roper

There is end float in the rocker arms. How much? Buggered if I know? Less than a mm, more than 1/4 of a mm? Not enough to exert overly large side loadings on the valve as I see it. Interestingly, at my '1st Service' the tappets had all opened up a motza. No worries, they'd all done it by roughly the same amount but obviously something has been wearing/settling in. Still goes like shit off a shiny shovel so I'm happy . MAkes a whining noise from the gears, especially when cold, like an old XJ Yammy! Rattles a bit when it gets hotter too, but it's a consistent noise so nothing to worry about in my book. Pete

Keith, My mate John Viton recently had a similar problem with a Scura he did a clutch replacement on. I don't know for sure how the situation was eventually resolved. If you drop him a lineand tell him I sent you 'm sure he'll respond. motocicolo bigpond.com I supplied another RAM unit from Ago's to another bloke a while back and he too had a problem caused by the 8mm pushrod. I think that too was resolved simply by swapping the thrust button. Pete

FWIW I did the 'First Service' on my 8V today and the tappets that I had originally been worried about because they were as tight as buggery were all as loose as a whore's draws! Obviously there's a bit of settling in to be done. Better loose than tight though. Despite the 'Oh the sky is falling' attitude of a few old conservatives all my observations seem to indicate that the new motor is a lovely and briliant thing. No, it isn't a V11, I know that, but it is a huge step forward, as the original *new* Aprilia designed/built bikes were on the whole. I know that a lot of youse will be hoping for a 'Nuovo LeMans' and I think it will come, but I think it will be kept a fairly close secret before it is launched. If I ever can pik up my Scura I'll live it dearly too, but time marches on, no bike is an island, or even a peninsular. The V11 has been superceeded, we all have to accept that, but I can see parts hoarding becoming a common thing for enthuiasts in a few years time in a manner that was never imagineable with loop frames or Tontis! Pete

If we can get away from the histrionics and grandstanding for a minute? Ratch's suspension stuff is top-notch. This, along with the manual and your own knowledge should enable you to get the front end working as well as it can be expected to. My feeling is that as the stiction, ( A common term used to describe an increase in static and sliding friction.) has increased incrementally, albeit fast, the best option is to take the forks completely apart and find out why. Yes it's a pain in the arse, but it's a damn sight better than having a locked up front end. Obne of the common reasons why forks go stiff is that there are rubber components, (Or plastic.) in side the fork and for whatever reason they begin to break up. This then clogs the hoiles in the valves in the cartriges or gets stuck betwixt slider and tube. Either of these situations will lead to a gradual stiffening of the action and if the problem is the holes being blocked the hydraulic forces can cause damage to the valve plates etc. so it's worth sorting out ASAP. The actual labour involved isn't an awful lot. A couple of hours and its done. But you're probably like me and are afraid of stuffing something up, even though we know it's really simple nuts and bolts. Jack the bugger up, pull the legs out and give them a proper seeing to. As I've oft said before if you ride a Guzzi you need all the help you can get. The 'Ace up our sleeve' is that we CAN get our bikes to handle well. Do that and the power disadvantage simply melts away Pete

Yes they have a throw out bearing. Thing is it isn't like a car type one, it operates on the back end of the clutch pushrod and is lubricated by the gearbox oil. The reason why Guzzi clutches rattle is simple. On the twin platers as used in most big blocks since the dawn of time when the lever is pulled in and then plates, two friction and one intermediate, are not subject to a clamping force they will, at idle, rattle around on the splines of the gearbox input hub and the flywheel. This can be minimised by setting your ide speed to 1100-1200RPM, where it should be, and ballancing the TB's correctly. It is also not a good idea to sit for long periods of time with the clutch pulled in. With the single platers as fitted to Scuras, Mandello Rossos, and I think a couple of other models, the noise happens when the clutch lever is released. On the single plate models the friction plate has shock absorbing 'Anti Rattle Springs' That don't perform their function very well. Once again, set the idle speed up to 1100-1200 and ballance the TB's but even if you do this correctly it will, in most cases, still sound like two backhoes fighting in a rubbish dump. This in itself seems to cause no undue damage but the Scura flywheels are a known issue. I haven't heard of a Mandello Rosso grenading but it is the same basic component. FWIW the new single plater as used in the Griso 1200 and Stelvio is silent at all times! Pete

I wasn't aware of the old Vee-Dub connection . Your explanation confirms what I saw as the point of the whole thing though. I don't think the rockers are an isse either. Yes, on the earlier Hi-Cams which use a system that is very similar, (In fact in most ways the *new* valve gear and the *old* valve gear are practically identical.) there was a problem with rockers snapping but only under very extreme conditions and high revs. Not only does the new motor use different springs but all the earlier Hi Cams were built at 'One of those times' when quality control was less than peachy at Mandello. There was n outbreak of 2V rocker breakages at much the same time. Coincidence? maybe, maybe not.... Pete

Why so? All rockers will impart a side load on the valve stem. This system which has the sort of 'Ball and Socket' hip joint on the end of the adjuster is simply a kind of inverted lash cap as afar as I can make out. I'd think it had been done to minimise the side loadings raher than the opposite? The earlier Hi-Cams are very hard on their guides. I thought this might of been a system adopted to combat that? pete

I managed to take a 748 piloted by one of the clown-suit brigade coming up the Clyde mountain on my 1100 Griso. I think he was really pissed off at having a fat *old* bloke on a 'Guzzi' round him up, (I reckon Rob, our race bike pilot, could of done him on a '76 LeMans ) One of these 848's should be easy meat for the 8VG. As long as it's ridden by a numpty, and lets face it, most of them are!!!! Pete

Yes, they make a noise like cats screwing in a tumble drier. The twin plater used in most of the range makes a noise like someone band-sawing gerbils, but only when the clutch is in. It's all to do with the uneven firing interval. Set your idle to 1200RPM, ballance the TB's carefully and that's a s good as it will get. Pete

Any of the usual reputable suppliers. Speakers, Moto International, MPH, MG Cycle, Guzzi Classics, Harpers etc. They'll all have one in a bag overnight for you. Get a new alternator seal and timing chest gasket as well. Pete

Oh and BFG, did you get my PM about the axone shit? I never heard anything back. Did it arrive? pete

The whining is all related to the new gear train at the front that drives the dummy shaft and oil pump. It may quieten with time, I don't think so as I believe the gears are straight cut, I haven't bothered confirming that though. I also have a? How would I describe it? A knock, at idle. My feeling is that a LOT of this is due to backlash in the gears, (SAme way the clutch intermediate plate would rattle or ring with the uneven power pulses of the 90* twin when the lever was pulled in.) I'm sure it can be minimised by careful ballancing of the TB's but I'll be buggered if I'm going to bother doing that yet. I'll wait until its done at least 1500Km before I even think about it. Have you wound yours out a bit yet? The fueling on mine low down is fantastic! From 2000 you can whack open the throttle in every gear and it just surges forward. The 1100 was nice, but this is so much NICER When it gets to about 5800 something really quite extraordinary, (For a Guzzi!) happens. Try it in third. Ride it up to there with the throttle WFO. Even with only 400 Km on mine its really VERY silly I'll finish the 'Run In' this weekend, do the first service Monday and then I think I'll go huntin' next week. I've already torched one git on a GS11 away from the lights in Canberra but it'll be the twisties where I plan to do a bit or ritual humiliation. I could humble them on the 1100, (And as I've oft said, I'm a crap rider.) with this thing I should be able to render them into pools or blubber. It really is that good as a ROAD, (Or ROGUE!) bike. Pete

What it 'Looks' like holistically is basically unimportant as long as it looks like a humpy-bike but retaind the V-twin architechture? Am I right? OK, So forget having an MGS-02 that uses any of the main bits that the MGS-01 uses. Sorry, but the 'Old' six speed gearbox is dead. As is the belt drive Hi-Cam. Rather than looking to the past why not start thinking seriously about what you'd like from a bike using the Nuovo 8V/ Nuovo 6 speed/ and CARC system, because boys, (And I think you are all boys?) if you get a Nuovo LeMans THAT is what it's going to be based around, not the 'Old' stuff. I'm about,. in the next few days, to embark on a rant about the new motor and how it stacks up against my old Griso 11 and I'll even throw in some V11 refferences to tantalize and probably enrage you. I will give my own, admittedly seriously subjective, overview and suggestions as to what Guzzi/Aprilia will have to do to get this donk up to the sort of speed that most people seem to crave. Don't worry. The new motor is a F@cking GEM!!!!! But it is restricted, not by noise surprisingly, it's loud out of the crate! but by it's inlet tract. I was hoping to post on Guzzitech but it's down at the moment so I'll probably post my rant up on Mild. pete

Look, this is a very hard question to give a definitive answer to. Back when I was working at a dealer I did an awful lot of PD's. Thing is that once you got to KNOW what you needed to do you could usually get a bit more relaxed about going as over the top as I did with my ne 8V. The thing is the 8V is a NEW model and I've had to PD exactly ONE of them. Mine. I certainly wasn't going to simply assume that everything was honky-dory straight out of the box, but this IS the way most marques bikes are PD's. You simply stick the battery and fuel in and press the button. With models with big fairings and the like you will usually have to do some panelwork assembley and sometimes the front wheel won't be fitted. With any Guzzi though I would, if I sold them, do the minimum I did with my 8V. Why? Because it doesn't take long, it means that I KNOW that things are right and I can be sure that I have done everything I can to ensure that the customer, (Who is ater all giving *me* as he sees it an awfully big chunk of money.) rides away happy! It is important to remember that motorbikes aren't built by engineers or mechanics. They are built by production line workers who may have very few skills and little understanding of how their individual tasks will effect the 'Whole'. Also if you haven't done any production line work you'll have no idea how shit-boring it is, (One of my first jobs was on the production line at a vacuum cleaner factory, you have no idea how boring THAT was!) t's hard to ensure people remain suitably motivated to be super-dilligent and mistakes WILL be made. For that reason until I have a good grasp on what are the common set up glitches or otherwise I'd do what I did to mine. If they all started showing up as well set up then I'd drop the bits I didn't see as neccessary. As for the new bikes? Well, my 1100 Griso came with it's wheel out, it's bars off and sideways on the tank, no mirrors or bar ends and a few other little things. My 8V was only missing mirrors and bar ends, wheel was in etc. Battery is shipped dry so you have to wet it up and install it and then set up the dashboard to your liking and programme the keys etc. Pete

If during all this strugling to get the trunnions greased or the wheel in and out you accidentally separated the two halves of the driveshaft DO make sure that they are correctly alligned before you try and ride the bike. this is very important. pete

Hmmm! Sounds about right to me! Pete

Perhaps, but only if you assume that the bike is mapped to be too lean for a given temperature. Surely if they are going to build a map they will, within reason, try to get it to be accurate to a sensor with some degree of accuracy? Rather than one that will be wildly inaccurate given a different variety of ambient conditions. Remember most of the investigative work regarding this will of been done in a building, (Most likely a small room with fan forced cooling to the motor in almost constant ambient temperatures.) not out on the open road, in rain, blazing sun, snow, varying traffic conditions etc. I see the factory mapping, not just on Guzzis but on all vehicles, as a series of really fairly crappy compromises. The fact they CAN work as well as they do is a good thing and they DO work quite well enough for most of us as long as we try and set them up so they work as closely as possible to the sort of constants experienced in that closed, fan forced room in the factory, (Or wherever!). I'm not saying that any of these things are any sort of 'Magic Bullet' or 'Panacea for All Ills', simply that to my peanut brain it makes an awful lot more sense than thinking that there was cunning plan on cunning plan on cunning plan to give some sort of diffused and fuzzy information to an ECU that would then be clever enough to decipher it! I'm sure that such things are possible, I just very much doubt that they would ever come close to the surface of the thinking of a profit driven organization that will always build things down to the bottom dollar. And that, I'm afraid, is how the world of commerce works. pete

No its not. The reason why people hate you is because your feet smell Pete

Not modding. Simply performing what I'd call a decent pre-delivery service. I'll be registering the bike today and running it in over the next couple of days with a run down to the coast and back via the High Monaro, (Typically we've just had the coldest April temperatures on record with snow down to 1200 metres! I reckon I'll have to rug up for the high plains! ) Until I've got everything bedded in to my satisfaction and the suspension sorted, (Like my 1100 it is set up ridiculously stiff from the factory.) I won't be exploring the top end of the rev range which is where I'll be expecting it to shine. Pete

As Dan and Greg say, the medium you use is fairly unimportant. The only reason I use Zinc Cote rather than Copper-Cote is because I've got a bigger jar of Zinc Cote! Anything is better than an air gap! Pete

Nah! now you're just being STUPID! Actually although there was a heat transfer agent in there it looked like it had been applied by a microbe so small was the amount. The thought was there though. I still re-packed it to buggery with Zinc-Cote on principle! Pete

Probably explains why Guzzi are now packing the ETS tip on the new bikes with themal paste to get a decent temperature refference for the ECU. Another one of those worthless and un-neccessary suggestions I've made to people in the past and been lambasted for. How do I know? I took the sensor out of my new 8V Griso this arvo to add some paste and found it had already been done for me at the factory. Thanks boys! Pity you didn't give the tappets any clearance though Pete

Nah, it's not the tranny and 'verter. It's the actual motor that's quiet! It has no top end rattle, no lifter knock, no piston slap. When I first got it I thought that the tappets had to be set way too tight but they were actually spot on where the factory said they should be at 8 and 8. I closed 'em up to 5 and 7 as I always do with roundfins and it made no difference . When I got it it had a totally shagged cam chain and the original, 'never been adjusted' cam chain tensioner and that made a bit of a noise but as soon as I stuck in a real tensioner and it had bedded in the motor was, and remains, uncannily quiet. As I said, I have no idea why! All my other roundies have always made the 'Two cheesegraters fornicating in an iron tank' noise and early in the piece I really did try to find a 'Cure' for it but most of them seemed to be temporary. Most effective is reaming the block and using O/S lifters but even that seems to be basically temporary. New spindles and bushes in the rockers never seems to work. Minimising crank end float does have an effect but I'm always lairy of closing that up to much and it's not the 'Magic Bullet' I've looked for for 20 years . At the end of the day it doesn't seem to do any damage or compromise engine life if they clatter but it's interesting to note how everything in the new 8V motor is shimmed for end float and tolleranced to within a thou of its life! no wonder they're so quiet!!! Pete

The 'Dogga-Dogga' noise is simply a term I use for describing something terminal . Connecting rods playing hopscotch on the crank make a *very* memorable noise, once you've heard it you won't forget it in a hurry! Most Guzzi big blocks are pretty noisy, they are a design from a different age and even when put together very carefully and accurately will tend to be much noisier than most other *modern* machines, (There are plenty of exceptions. My 'Vert has always been whisper quiet and I have no idea why as there is nothing special about it!). There is a big difference though between everyday rattles and knocks and the sound of major componentry giving up the ghost! Believe me, if it's serious, you'll know. So will your dog if he's nearby! Pete

Only thing I'm going to throw into this is simply to check the driveshaft alignment as the wheel goes back in, especially if you have a shop do it who aren't familiar with the Guzzi/V11 Oddball/Heath Robinson system. It is possible for the front and rear of the driveshaft to separate while the box dangles and the wheel is out. If the trunnions of the shaft aren't aligned properly it will cause all sorts of handling problems and place enormous strain on the entire gearbox/driveline. There is a paint mark on on the two halves of the shaft that should line up. Make sure it does when the whole thing goes back together. Since the bike isn't new it's worth checking it anyway. Who knows? The previous owner may well of sold it because it handled like a munter and that might well of been down to driveshaft misalignment. A surprising number of so-called 'Technicians' aren't aware of this and I get a load of bikes with 'Handling Problems' through my workshop where the only problem is that the tyres have been fitted by retards and the shaft is misaligned. Pete