pete roper

Look, I know that people are hanging out for a sort of 'Soft Road' Guzzi but the thing is that this beast is more like, in fact its trying to copy, the GS BMW's. They are absolure shit on anything other than smooth dirt, (We have a LOT of dirt roads in Oz ) And to be honest I can drop the damping front and rear on my Griso and keep up with a lot of GS plonkers on a well graded dirt road, (And, I hasten to add, I hate dirt!). Back when BMW launched the very first GS way back in the depths of time it was a VERY different world. I seriously thought about one until I realized that for what I wanted to do My SP1000 was just as good . When I did do a short, but serious sort of outback tour back in '83 I used an old twin shock XL500 Honda with a weedy front brake, (1/2 width six incher or something equally terrifying but I was used to a SLS 8 incher on my Triumph so it wasn't so bad .) Very early 'Dual Purpose' tyres, (Metz as I recall?) and a six volt electrical system that didn't and I reckon it would STILL be a far more suitable bike for 'Soft Roading' than the great heffalump of a Stelvio. (The mighty 'Onda had a 21 inch front wheel! Bliss!!!!) Look, if it floats your boat? Fine! But it's a bit like having a big four wheel drive in London or a Hummer in LA. Not wanting to put peoples' noses out of joint but 'Wasteful' and 'Stupid' are phrases that spring to mind. A DR 400 or equivalent is a much better beast although my choice would be a Honda 200 Auto-Ag but I'm odd like that Pete

Bad choice of words on my part. The sensor may be perfectly accurate but its location lends itself to cooling so it will give an accurate reading to the ECU that is far too cool and the ECU compensates by over fueling. Pete

Is there plenty of oil in the top end? If it looks a bit dry check that the rocker spindle support bolts haven't been replaced with longer ones. If longer than standard bolts are used, (I think that the stock ones are about 15mm long but I'd have to check to be sure.) they will block off the oil feeds through the rocker spindles and the whole top end runs dry, with predictable results. Pete

The earlier sensor in the rocker cover is much, much worse and even more inaccurate. Pete

For the few seconds before the con rods snap like rotten carrots! Pete

Just to get back to the original subject I had a post from Todd at MPH saying that there were people asking about availability of the plates. Well I'll be posting 10 of them off on Monday so they should be there in about a week but until then get off the cripple's case or he'll insert his prosthesis up your date Pete

I think the choice of the type of temperature sensor is dead easy. It's a unit that is used in trillions of other crappy vehicles. Why not go for ecconomy of scale and fit it to a crappy Guzzi as well? Like it or not we're talking about mass production. Even if with Guzzi 'Mass' has an entirely different meaning! My guess is that you'll find exactly the same sensor in most if not all Aprilia Scooters and just about any other Italian motorbike and tons of Italian, (And probably other European.) cars The big difference being that most if not all of them are water cooled. The cost of developing a 'Stand alone' product for a small production vehicle like a Guzzi big block would make cost prohibitive. So we end up getting the rough end of the pineapple as usual and we have to work out ways of getting a marginal system to be the best it can be. Don't like it? Simple! Buy an 'Onda. Like it or not if we insist on buying these irracible, under-developed bits of shit we're going to have to do a fair amount of development work ourselves. One of the good things is that most of the people who can do this are barking mad enthusiasts who don't mind sharing what they learn. Cost for the above information is $750US. Please deposit it into my Nigerian bank account Pete

All of this looks perfectly normal and right on the money to me. Pete

Moto International heve 'em I know. Otherwise you could try a pipe fitting shop Honestly, I reckon that it shouldn't be too hard to find sitable fittings. Pete

I've mentioned this before but the gist of it is as stated above. The crappy sensor screws into a crappier plastic fitting in the head but rarely makes contact with the material of the head itself. This leave an air gap. Air is a superb isulator, (think 'Double Glazing') so the sensor doesn't detect the correct temperature and therefore the signal it sends to the ECU is wrong so the ECU delivers the wrong amount of fuel to the motor leading to poor ecconomy and running with dirty plugs thrown in as a bonus! I have an Axone tool and one of it's display functions is engine temperature. On many, if not all, models with the ETS in the back of the RH head it will always give a grossly inaccurate temperature reading. As much as 60*C out! Always on the cool side. Dave mentions that you can, if you have a PCIII or whatever, compensate by playing with the ETS parrameters? This may well be the case, I don't know, but I'd think if there is an air gap then a whole lot of other factors are going to have a greater effect, (Ambient temp. Whether the area around the sensor is going to be being cooled by rain? ) and the message is still going to be effected and in different ways in differnt conditions but I'd think less if there is a solid or semi-liquid medium between the sensor and head, its a simple density and conductivity thing. I can't see any problem with Dave's conductive paste. I simply use Zinc-Cote anti seize 'cos I've got a dirty great tub of it and it seemed to me to be the best thing I had for the task. There is no issue about the sensor having to *earth* as it earths in the ECU. While some people who have done this and then tuned the bike using an Axone or say the Technoresearch software have reported improvements some have not noticed much, if any, difference. Most of the bikes I've dealt with though the owners HAVE reported an improvement, but that might just be the power of suggestion and the fact that they've spent some money. I really don't know for sure but I have done it to my Griso and the axone tells me the engine temperature more accurately than it did before. Pete

Yes, there will always be a fog of oil in the case when the motor is running, (Believe me, until you've seen it you wouldn't believe how ugly it looks! ) but it *does* eventually return to the sump. As it hits the crankcase walls and, if installed, the sheet, surface tension will encourage it to stay there. Without a plate it's like spraying a garden hose into a bucket, probably more like a fire-fighting hose actually! At least this is reduced by not having the oil being flung violently off the crank into the sump. That will reduce aeration of the sump oil and the amount of particulate matter in the case. If the holes were either too small or not in the right place I could see there being problems with drain-back or pooling above the plate. That's why I gave such big clearances around the filter/thermostat housing and put the holes up the front. I can't see drain-back being a problem. I suppose if you started yiur engine with thick oil in in sub-zero temperatures nd revved the ring out of it for 5 Kms it *might* concievably be an issue. If you do that sort of thing though you deserve everything you get! Pete

I'd be very careful in checking 'D'. Most sets of timing gears are designed for the earlier, pre FI bikes and do NOT have the depth removed from the back of the cam gear to cope with the phonic wheel. Now it *may* be that someone has started manufacturing a suitable set for later machines but I personally would rather stick red hot pins in my scrotum than have any set of Alloy timing gears in any motor of mine. Every time I enter a debate on this subject it end up with me being abused by some prat with a personality problem so I'm NOT going to debate it again. I will STATE though that I've seen and removed many, many sets from many different manufacturers that have failed in service. Yes, I know that there are many people who have had, or think they've had, excellent service from some of the gear trains but these have rarely been inspected after installation and a period in service. That's fine but I still refuse to install them in any motor I work on and will remove them if they appear to be damaged and they ALWAYS are IMHO. Pete

One of the most contentious topics you can bring up on a Guzzi forum! Well done Pete

The 'Big Valve' head/piston combination are one of the most horrid I've ever seen! I do remember on the 1100 Sport motors I've had apart that the combustion chamber shape was greatly improved, smaller valves too with better back shape. I couldn't remember about the chamfer but seemed to recall someone else mentioning it recently. Pete

Pierre, Im not familiar enough with V11 heads to know. Is there a chamfer on the edge of the combustion chamber in the head? If so that would explain Mike's sloped squish band and would certainly be a major consideratory factor in which would be the *best* pistons for combustion chamber shape and squish. If there is a chamfer then I can see nice benefits from Mike's shape, as I said, he's far more experienced in such things than me. With earlier heads there is no chamfer so the *squished* charge will have a greater direction change and therefore require more energy to get it to *work* as well as being less efficient. Pete

Good-Oh. I like this 'teaching' thing, its fun. So what do people want to go for? Should i do a bit on piston rings? They're great fun! Everyone thinks they're simple Rings are the work of the devil and probably cause more fuss and bother than just about anything else! Pete

John, I have no problem with people working out the *correct* amount at all. As I said before I find it weird that some people get so up-tight and combative about it and I also think that for novices obsessing about quantity is a bad thing if it detracts from the enjoyment of owning the machine. Most Guzzis will use a bit of oil, especially if ridden hard and doubly especially if it is done in hot conditions but if the machine is using so much that top-ups have to be done every few hundred Km's/Miles then I'd be waving a warning flag as there would have to be something a bit topsy-turvey happening. 4 cylinder machines don't have nearly the pumping action of a big V twin as the crankcase volume remains pretty much constant so the only thing that needs to be expelled/breathed is the blow-by gasses. simply, their breather systems get an easier time. Smaller piston circumfirences also make for lower opportunity for blow by as well. My first *new* Guzzi, (ie, post 1980! ) is my Griso which as pretty much the same set-up as the V11 bore and stroke wise, (The rod/stroke ratio is different.) and it uses a bit of oil, but not a lot, even when its hot and it DOES get ridden hard on occasion. as with most Guzzis though it seems tto 'Find it's level', in other words it will use a bit and then stop when the level has dropped to a point where the windage and pressure factors no longer cause a problem. With the Big 'G' with its new, narrower but deeper, sump and better pick-up design having the oil level drop a bit doesn't seem to matter. I have never picked up an error code for low oil pressure faults before changing the filter and usually what happens is when I change the filter, even if I fill it before installation, there seems to be a tendency for whatever air is in the system to trigger an error code. If I delete it after starting the bike and running the oil through though it doesn't recurr I have to say that I'm tempted to design a plate for the 'G' just to see if I can detect any difference to performance based on the comments some have made about percieved improvements after fitting my plate to their V11's but I think I'll wait until I have my 8V to play with that as I see no need for it with my old pushroddy one. As I've said before, I designed the plate to combat a SPECIFIC problem. any other benefits are purely luck and circumstance. I've been called a robber and a charlatan and my ideas have been 'Pooh-Poohed' by some but nobody is FORCED to use my plates . I do know though that I haven't heard of ONE case where a bike fitted with one has torched its big ends and I trust Greg enough to know that if it didn't work? He'd say so and I'd go back to the drawing board. Incidentally I installed one for a bloke the other day at the same time I was replacing his Scura clutch with a *real* RAM one and recieved this email from him: ******************************************** Hey Pete, put my bike together today and that clutch is fukn unbelievable pardon the language.. better friction point, lighter lever action,quieter,blah blah... also the bike is running better maybe the heat sensor, the windage plate, what ever very nice.... thanks for your patience of me asking many questions and your expertise.. thanks Ralf ******************************************** Yes, I packed his temp sensor at the same time but I ALWAYS try and explain the how's why's and wherefores of any of the mods I suggest and will never attempt a 'Hard Sell' on anybody. I don't need to, I'm not so desperately impoverished that I have to try and rip people off so why would I? Unless I'm really MUCH weirder than I appear Oh and just as an act of blatant, venal, spamming! I've just recieved my next batch of plates from my manufacturer. I'm sending some to Todd at MPH in the next couple of days so they will be available 'Locally' in the USA or you can buy direct, (Or not if you don't wish to!) from me. Dan? Yours went out this AM. Since I didn't know your sirname I sent it to 'Demon Dan the V11 Man' at Imperial Should be with you within the week. Any problems? let me know. Pete

I can remember being told by one nut-case a few years ago that when he changed the oil in the bevelbox of his old Tonti he always REMOVED the box from the swingarm and set it up in a specially made jig that held the pinion ABSOLUTELY level. He checked this with a spirit level!!!!! He would drain the oil overnight and then re-fill it until oil just appeared at the level hole using a pipette for the last few ml!!!! I thought he was absolutely BARKING MAD and it obviously showed. I must of gone all sort of goggle-eyed and my jaw made a noise as it slammed into the floor. Our relationship never really recovered after that Pete

It wasn't supposed to be a dig at Ryland at all. (God? Can't we get away from the idea that everything has to be combative! It's really BORING!) I just wanted to make people aware that if they do use a plate their motor won't collapse in a pool of molten slag if they use 30cc less oil than *any* recommendation. As an addendum to the bearings thread you could say you can use any amount of oil as long as its enough to provide the two functions, lubricate and cool, but there also has to be enough so that heat can be dumped before it re-circulates and sufficient that there is an ability to give a reasonable service interval. Just to drive people into a frenzy, I don't care how good an oil is supposed to be, none of my air cooled engines have oil change intervals much beyond 5,000Km Pete

Yup. Said it was simple. The shell bearings, (Or the mains!) Are sacrificial. They could run the rod direct on the crank, but when something went tits you'd have to buy a new crank and rods, (Greg will probably weigh in here with a carpet-chewing rant about how Guzzi still replace crank and rods after a big end failure simply because the parts system says this is the way to do it ). As for the little ends? Amazingly these survive fed by splash! As has recently been mentioned in another thread though the whole inside of the case, including the bores and little ends, are in a constant fog of oil droplets. The movement in the gudgeon pin is also not rotational so the forces acting upon it are different but it's one of the reasons you run VERY close tollerances on little ends. pete

Ryland, with the greatest of respect it DOESN'T have to be that precise. Really. Put in plate. Mark stick just below plate, (Screwed in, screwed out? Doesn't matter.). Fill new filter with oil, install, with or without clamp . Replace sump. Fill with oil with bike roughly upright and to the new 'Full' mark. Go ride. Check oil occasionally That's it, end of story. The quantity of oil to the nanno-poofteenth of a cc. is totally irrelevant. There has to be enough in there to do its job and the less space beneath the plate with air in it the more effective it will be in reducing rearward surge. That's all there is to it. I feel the argument about what *is* vaporisation and condensation is simply an argument in semantics. The idea of the frame or box as 'Condensors' is the same as a septic tank 'Settling' pooh. Just that you're taking globules of oil rather tha turds and separating them. You can argue till you're blue in the tits about whether the oil changes state, on the cylinder walls or anywhere else, and whether it then re-forms into *oil* i the frame. The fact is it isn't, as far as any of us are concerned, important, because it won't have any effect that we can do anything about which we have any control. Do we want to have a quick thread on piston rings and their functions? Do we want to examine the physics of heat in a combustion cycle? I'm more than happy to run through the basics, (Which is all I'm qualified to do.) if people want but seeing as nobody seemed to want to find out more about bearings I'm quite happy to leave it if it is deemed uninteresting or irrelevant. Pete

If there is a blockage in the return line/s then yes, you can fill up the frame. The problem with this hypothesis is that the return doesn't, or shouldn't have, any valves in it. The PCV valve is in the breather pipe from the crankcase, this is where the vapor and oil exits the case on the way to the spine. After the oil has condensed it simply runs down the spine and returns to the sump via gravity. What DID tend to happen on older roundfins which also had the return below the level of oil in the sump was that after a period of extended running the earlier breather system where the condensor was a box about the size of a cigarette packet would be unable to cope and coupled with the fact that once the engine was taken above 900cc and cast iron bores, (In particular.) the case wouild pressurise and force oil back up the return until it flooded the breather box. First sign of this on SP's and the like was when the bike lost power and delivered a huge smoke screen as the oil flowed from the airbox, through the carbs and into the engine. The V11's and earlier squarefins ALL use/d a crankcase with a larger volume, (This is including the sump, spacers etc.) which essentially cured this predilicion unles the oil level was run too high. The reason why I don't think that expulsion through the breather is a major problem on the spines is a combination of the bigger case volume and reduction in windage due to the oil being further from the crank and that experience has shown that the starvation problem will occur during hard acceleration and not during extended high speed running. If it was an expulsion or non-return problem then it would be more likely to manifest itself during high speed running rather than hard launches. Well, that's my take. I think that Greg's torture test after he installed one of my plates, (Sent for independent assesment, not just my word for it.) proves that whether my theory is correct the plate WILL offer a sollution to the problem. Is it the 'Best' or 'Only' sollution? No, of course not, but it's pretty cheap compared to any alternatives as well as being simple and ellegant. Pete

I saw thge message on the 'Motha' board but didn't recieve one as a personal e-mail and I have to admit that I too probably have toched off a couple of flame wars recently but only as I saw it under severe provocation. Perhaps it's time for all of us to take a deep breath and give tha man a break. Perhaps he's been having to field lots of complaints in PM's and emails? Perhaps he's just sick of the bickering? I certainly don't think it's worth anybody getting their panties in a wad over, if I had recieved a personal email it wouldn't of outraged me? I can't see what the problem is? Mind you a lot of things that I don't consider in the least rude seem to upset other people to the point of frenzy but I'll try, really hard, not to say anything that could be misconstrued now. If Jaap feels I'm 'Out of line' he's more than welcome to tell me to pull my neck in. Pete

OK, moving right along..... Why are bearings and their journals usually made of dis-similar materials? Most of the 'Mechanics' here will know the answer but lets leave it up to the others who have just discovered the stuff above to work it out. NB. It's not hard. There is a very good reason, just think about the engine holistically and then consider it's expected life span. Don't be afraid of saying something silly. You'll probably be right Pete

Nice! Pete