pete roper

I also see that 'richpugh' (Sp?) wants a fat wheel. If this Scura thing happens I'd be more than happy to swap its absurdly sized rear wheel with a narrower one. No reply on the Scura yet??? Pete

Yup, love the Big G. But I don't have a spiney or a loop. Of all the V11's I like the Scura best 'cos it's got TOTR suspension which matters lots to me! As for timeframe? No urgency at all. The other alternative would be for me to get someone to ride it down to Houston for me so I can get MPH to stick a real clutch and flywheel in it then I'll fly over some time next year and ride it to the west coast. Getting it back to Oz could be a problem but since it's a 'Limited Edition' that shouldn't be too hard to sort. If worst come to worst I'll just keep it in California somewhere! Pete

If I were to buy Solo's Scura would anyone be willing to ride it from New Hampshire to LA for me? Pete

FWIW I think that the 'Stucchi' and 'Valtech' tensioners are one and the same. I think its simply who and where you buy them from that determines their name . Personally I like the blade type in prefference to the new Guzzi type but replacing it isn't something I'd do just on principle as I would with the early 'Rubber Foot' type which really were excrementally bad. Incidentally Nick Barton had a set of straight cut steel gears made up in China. He gave 'em to Mark Etheridge who then flick passed them on to me and I in turn soft-coqued it and flick passed 'em to Doug Foskey up in Kempsey for him to try out in one of his numerous bizarro projects, (He does barmy stuff like fuel injecting T3's ). I didn't use 'em for several reasons. The main one was that I didn't actually have an engine lying about that I could build 'em in to. Secondly I reckoned that being straight cut they would be so deafeningly loud they'd be unpleasant to ride with and thirdly as I've said many times before for a road bike I think gears are un-neccessary. I'll try and get in contact with El Fosko and see if he's done anything with them. Strikes me though that if the previous poster who had some straight cut gears made also stated they were obnoxiously loud they would probably be insufferable for that reason alone. Sorry to whoever it was who posted up the pics and the info, I can't find the thread so I can't give you credit, my apologies. While I don't think that it has been comprehensively established that making sure the chain can't lash about to the degree it can with the factory tensioner will neccessarily cure stumbling and hiccups on its own it certainly can't do any harm. As Raz found, if the bike has previously been worked on by dimwittus moronicus who can't even recognise an abnormal thread pitch it's going to be well worth going in there just to put ones mind at rest. I mean??????? How could ANYBODY do something like that???? It beggars belief! Pete

Thing is pulling the cam chain isn't really any big deal. If you think that things might be improved by swapping the tensioner for a Valtech blade type one then do so! It really ain't any big deal. It can be done with the engine in the frame and will take probably three hours tops. If you look at my engine rebuild blurb you'll get the idea. the Ducati alternatered bikes are a bit different in that the nut that holds the crank sprocket on is a (?) 36mm hex nut rather than a peg nut and needs a thin walled socket to get it off and there is the 'Phonic wheel' behind the cam sprocket but otherwise it's exactly the same once the chest is off. Incidentally the timing chest used to have drain holes in the bottom to allow the oil, delivered by the oil flowing out of the pump, crank and cam bearings, to drain back to the sump. Whether these have been deleted on later models, (I think they have on Hi-Cams.) I can't be sure but you can rest assured that the chain gets plenty of lube! When I was running hellically cut steel gears in my hot-rod I blocked the holes off with epoxy and drilled a couple about the level of the oil pump shaft so the gears were running in an oil bath. Whether this was neccessary I have no idea but it seemed sensibel to me, paratitic drag be damned! Bear in mind Mike Haven doesn't see a problem with the current Guzzi tensioner and Greg, from memory, despises the Valtech type. So this is one of those things where younwill find many and varied opinions! Good news is if it doesn't wor to your satisfaction you can always just stick the original stuff back in. pete

Damn! Just wrote this out once and then the 'pooter crashed! Don't ya hate that??? Lets we'll try and deal with a few misconceptions about the supposed accuracy of the chain drive system. After this we can look at problems and how they may manifest themselves. Lets first deal with the erroneous idea that chains 'Stretch'. They don't. What happens is that the pins and rollers in the chain wear. The easiest way to see this manifested is to look at the old drive chain off a cahin driven bike and compare it to a new one. If you place them side by side on the bench/floor whatever and try and *bend* them sideways the old chain will Bend* a lot further than the new one. What you are doing is canting the pins over inside the rollers which allows each link to run slightly out of alignemt with the others. The end effect is much the same as stretch but it's important not to confuse the two. OK. So now we need to look at thetining chest and see how the whole sorry business works. From here on I'll be speaking about the engine as viewed from the front. On the right hand side of the timing chest there is a long run of chain thatgoes from the oil pump sprocket, over the tensioner and up to the cam sprocket. It loops over the top of the cam sprocket and then drts right again to circumnavigate the crank sprocket on the right hand side before exiting left again to hook around the left hand side of the oil pump sprocket before once more heading up the RH side of the timing chest. The crank rotates clockwise and the cam is towed round by the chain, but between the crank sprocket and cam sprocket there are only about three links and maybe four pins/rollers. Now given that on anything other than a feathering throttle that four links is always going to be in tension the only thing that will be able to retard the timing is the wear in the pins and rollers. Even assuming a whopping 3 thou clearance betwixt pin and roller with four pins that will give you 1/4 of a mm of increase in *length* of that bit of chain. I can't be bothered to do the sums but 1/4 of a mm at the circumfirence of a 720 degree camwheel is not, I'm sorry to say, going to retard your timing to any noticeable degree. when you are on the over-run it's a different story. Then, unless you have a decent tensioner that will 'Take up the slack' in that long run up the RH side of the case, the chain may well try and 'Bunch up' between the cam sprocket and the crank sprocket but there will still be variable loadings being imposed by the valve train and it is at this point tat the scatter will be most evident when examined with a strobe. The important thing to remember is that unless you are running such a radical cam that your piston to valve clearance is super-critical, And no road-going Guzzi cam is anything like this!) It doesn't matter a tinker's cuss what the valve timing is on the over-run as the engine isn't producing power, exactly the opposite in fact! Certainly if the chain is really badly worn you will eventually damage the sprockets but as far as valve and piston damage is concerned? Don't even think about it! Now the last example, and this I think is probably relevant to Ratch's observations of his bike's behavior, is what is happening on a light or feathering throttle. Here too is a situation where the scatter WILL be apparent. IMHO though the hesitation that he's experiencing is probably much less to do with any variance in cam timing per-se, (Although the observed scatter will prove that the timing is shifting about a bit.) but is Far more likely to be the result of instability in the signal from the 'Phonic Wheel' due to the 'floatation' of the timing due to the slack chain. This may well confuse the ECU so that it periodically says 'F@ck it! and givs up the ghost for a revolution or two until it can get it's bearings again. As has been observed the later model Guzzi tensioner has a pissweak little spring and IMHO it probably won't have the strength to combat the chain-flap on the over-run but I know of CAlis that have done best part of 200,000 miles without replacement of the chain or tensioner so????????? The Valtech/Stucchi type 'Blade' tensioner is in some ways a lot more robust than the Guzzi item. Yes, I know that some people don't like 'em and I know that some people have reported breakages of both blade and spring. I've had one broken spring on dozens I've installed and generally prefer them to the later model Guzzi item but both are a HUGE improvement over the original 'Foot' type tensioner from the early chain drive models. I think like most things both have advantages, both have disadvantages. When the chain or tensioner becomes a problem on my Griso I'll probably install a Valtech type as I think these work better at their true task of tensioning the chain but I certainly have no intention of doing it pre-emptively. As many people know I'm not a fan of any of the available alloy or composite gear sets available for converting to gear drive. I'm not willing to embark on another long and tiresome debate on the subject here. If you want to see how the other half thinks, if somewhat irrationally, go and have a look on the timing gear thread on Guzzi Exchange. I can't be arsed going through all that shit again! Anyway, my Pete

OK. To answer the questions. 1.) As Orson suggested if you stick a strobe on it and watch the timing mark on the flywheel this will give you a pretty good indication of how worn the chain is. If the mark appears to jump about, (A phenomenon known as 'Scatter' then it's a good idea to do something about it. 2.) Ypu don't have to remove the engine to do the timing chain. Just pop off the fron't cover and everything is easily acessible. Pete

What makes you think your original tensioner has gone bad? The later model Guzzi tensioners seem to work fine and be long lasting. Quite a few people prefer them to the Stucchi type blade tensioner. Pete

Gakk! A gearbox question and I missed it! I love gearboses, they're really clever but simple at the same time. I have to go out and ferry me Mum in Law about right now but I'll try and remember to get back to this. If I forget remind me, but Ratchet has made the obvious suggestion about the pawl adjuster. I reckon I can make a couple of useful observations though on top of this that should make your V11 box like a hot knife through butter ane are well within the remit of virtually anyone with a 5mm allen key and a couple of 13mm spanners. As I said. If I forget, nag me! Pete

Errr. Hang on guys. I take it this thread was started as a response to Crooze's statement that he found changing the oil a chore? Look, while I too think that almost anything on a Guzzi is an absolute breeze compared to most *modern* bikes I do consider myself relatively mechanically proficient, I'm not 'Time Poor' and I don't need to rely on a dealer two hours away to do my work. While I agree wholeheartedly that swapping the oil and even the filter on a V11 can hardly be described as arduous you *do* need a weird allen key thingy for the 'Manhole' and the filter is so inconveniently inaccessible that you do need a filter wrench to install it Now those things aren't a problem for us and compared with the sh!tfight involved in servicing some *modern* bikes they are really faily minor but I think it's a bit unfair to get up the bloke simply because he was unhappy with the bike! Guzzis aren't for everyone, the small volume nature of the beasts and the rather flimsy dealer support does mean that some people feel intimidated by ownership of something so different and it takes 'em out of their comfort zone or they simply don't feel that in this day and age you should have to 'Put up' with such *inadequate* service. While these sorts of things wouldn't effect me because before I make a purchase of something like a motorbike I make damn sure I know what I'm getting in to if you are used to things being hassle free and just *working* then reading our gripes and grumbles on this and other forums must be a bit intimidating. The thing that really annoys me is that my poxy Moto Guzzis never seem to break down so I have nothing to gripe about OK occasionally one of my older ones will do something like bust a cable or a spark plug will die if I leave it in there for over 50,000kms but I can't kill mine with a sh!tty stick and it's not because I'm *fastidious* with maintenance! Hit it with a big hammer once a year, put petrol in it and ride it till it stops! Works for me!!!! Pete

Don, I used to have a shorty filter somewhere in the shed. I'll try and dig it out and find a number on it but from memory it was for the earlier smaller mounting spigot. I can't remember why I got it, its at least a decade old . No problem with using a smaller filter and changing it more often in my book. I can't see the small filter being so much more restrictive as to cause problems, especially in your fairly warm climate. Thinking back I seem to remember that the filter was specified for the Nuovo Gilera Saturno of the late eighties/early nineties??? Pete

Depending on your novice status it is important to realize that when doing the valve clearances you have to realize that you treat each cylinder as a separate *engine*. The Guzzi has a shared crankpin with both connecting rods running on it. This means that when one piston is at TGC compression the other one most definitely isn't! Set each one up as a separate unit! While the *newer* engines still make some tappet noise they are a lot quieter than the old roundfins which are imfamous for their 'Two Cheesegraters Fornicating in an Iron Tank' top end rattle especially once the rocker spindles and bushes have worn a bit. There are numerous things that seem to make 'em ratt;e more or less. Certainly the newer, tighter Euro spec clearances of 4 thou inlet and 6 thou exhaust go a long way to quietening 'em down but they will still tend to rattle a bit. I dunno what they've done with the Griso/Breva?Norge motors but these are wwhisper quiet compared even to the V11's but they still use the same valvetrain. The only thing that springs to mind is that perhaps the accuracy of the settings remains better due to the non-crushable nature of the new head and base gaskets. There again I could simply be indulging in wishful thinking or even more simply talking out of my arse again . Pete

Nah, really, I ride like the grandfather of the oldest man in the world. I last rode a *race* bike, (A half crapped out 350LC Yammy.) in about '82 or so and never raced again because I was so embarassingly slow . Does this mean I enjoy my riding any less than the fast boys and girls? Of course not! But no way am I a *good* rider! The only reason I manage to occasionally round up people on far superior kit on the road is because their bikes are set up, (Or rather *not* set up!) really crappily. I really can't ride for toffee or to save my life, I really think I'm probably the biggest softcoque in chrisendom! When we were going up to the rally in Qld. a few weeks ago both the blokes on GS bimmers and Steve on his Scura just disappeared as soon as there was the tiniest sprinkling of rain! I know that this probably doesn't fit in with the rough, tough, 'Mr. Fur-Chest' image of motorcycling but I really have an accute aversion to pain and I'm old enough to have realized my own, less than magnificent, limitations. Pete

Shhh! Don't tell anyone but I think it's probably because I ride like an old bloody woman . I dunno why it is that I seemed to use more of the front with the fatter rear either but to be honest any old tyre far out performs me> I could probably have tyres made out of Granite and I'd still think they were fine. Pete

This Mike, is NOT a good look. In fact I might go as far as to say it is a conspicuously BAD look. Even if the poor girl wasn't on a motorbike it's a bad look! Doesn't anybody have a mirror at home nowadays? (Not that I'm any oil painting.) Pete

I'm all for differences in opinion. Different riding styles demand different settings, I know that. The thing is that in my experience, which I freely admit is more limited than some, most if not all *modern* Guzzis are over tyred as a fashion statement rather than as an ajunct to performance enhancement. I find that V11's in particular actually handle better and are more ENJOYABLE to ride with smaller rear tyres than the factory recommends. I've found the same thing, too a lesser extent, with my Griso. Having a bottomless supply of cast off race tyres helps . Rob runs a whole variety of race bike knock-offs on his street LeMans 'cos they're cheap, he has them and they do hold the road a lot better than almost any street tyre even when they are virtually f#cked!. BUT he still preffers a 110/90-100/90 combination on the road if he's got them handy. I find that fat rears make turning the bike, especially in a *spirited* manner an absolute chore. I also couldn't give even the tiniest of shits about what other people think of my bike aesthetically. I love it for it's form as part of it's function. Not as a suplementary side issue. But that's me. Lesser men etc. Greg . Pete

'Valueless Values'? Only thing worse is 'Family Values'. WTF are 'Family Values'? They get trotted out at every election as some sort of apogee of social development and 'All Things Good' but I've never had it explained to me what the hell they are. Working from observation of the policies they are associated with they seem to symbolise small minded bigotry, cretinous small 'c' conservatism and a pathological hatred of sex! If that's all a family can aspire to there isn't a lot of hope really is there????? Pete

who are this pair of droids? Are these these blokes from that silly TV show? Pete

I'm more than happy to deffer to those with more experience than me on the clearance issue. Looks like you could do it but it still puzzles me as to why you'd want to do something that will cost more money and make the bike worse Pete

Haven't had a chance to read it yet but another good maxim to work on is 'If it feels better? Then it almost certainly is!' I spend a LOT of time trying to convince customers that they DON'T want to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on *performance* work on their motors when they would be far better off spending a few hundred on the forks and shocks and (Usually.) going back to stock, or narrower in the case of later bikes, tyre profiles. Needless to say this arrouses deep suspicion in the sort of people who have their hair growing out of a pit in the top of their heads, who breathe exclusively through their mouths and whose lips move, very slowly, while reading the headlines in the tabloid press. The good thing is that these people, even though they are frequently well cashed up, (How is it that people who are as thick as pig dribble still seem to get obscenely rich? ) invariably think I'm trying to *trick* them by not selling them an endless procession of extravagant engine bling so they sod off elsewhere to have their wallets emptied. Occasionally I see them again after their bikes have been 'Worked' by an 'Expert'. This is particularly good fun if I'm on my Convert and manage to round up someone on a *75HP* big-bore Lemans . Suspension and brakes FIRST! Then gearbox. Then motor and FI. Only way to go. Pete

The question is 'Will it fit?' While I'm not sure I do know that Mr.Denny's Scura had a 180 on the back and I *think* that has a 5 inch rim. When we swapped it for a 170 at my workshop I seem to remember that it was in fairly close proximity to the shaft but I can't categorically say that another 5mm would of caused it to rub on it. As Ratch says, if you want your Guzz to handle like a pig on stilts then go as fat as you can on the back! If you want it to behave sensibly go smaller. Incidentally I recently went to a 170 section on the back of the Griso and it has made it a lot more whippy! Onl;y problem is I don't use as much of the front tyre now so all the poofter dags are still in the edges! With the first set of Rennsports, (A dreadful tyre! Deafeningly noisy!) I managed to wear the elephants off the edges (Which for a scaredy-cat slowpoke like me is really quite impressive!) Pete

This is one of those interesting little gramatical differences between US English and., I think, everyone elses. In the US if someone doesn't care about something the 'Could care less' For the rest of us? We 'Couldn't care less'! Fun innit! Pete

And I see this time and time again. While I can give no guarantee that the actual temerature reading given by the tool is accurate it is, or at least seems to be, consistently, inaccurate . I'm not telling people that this is a panacea for all ills. Simply that it is something that is worth checking and if there IS a false reading being obtained by the 'pooter it can, if it is off by a large enough amount, make a noticeable difference to both performance and fuel ecconomy. Watch it Jacko or I'll come over and bash ye with me handbag! Pete

This is very interesting and ties in with what I would of expected. More sophisticated than my toggle switch idea but. Interestingly over the last week or so I've been watching the fuel consumption on the Griso very carefully. As you may or may not know the *new* models have all sorts of silly bling in their dashboards. One of these is a function that tells your fuel consumption in Litres per 100Km. Now when you start the bike up it's always awful 7.8 to 8.2 L per 100. It takes about 25Km for the figure to stabilize, (You have two trip functions on the new dashboards so you can do a fuel consumption from cold and then when you reckon it's hot enough you can re-set the second one and start with a 'Hot' reading.) Consistently over summer consumption when hot has indicated, (And this is only an indication, the function seems consistent but pessimistic!) the machine said it was using 6.0 to 6.2 L per 100 but now the weather has got cold this has gone up to 6.4 per 100 or higher even when it's raining which would seem to confirm what I've always thought about big blocks, especially squarefins, being over finned to buggery! So what does this all mean? Well, I dunno really but it would seem to indicate that the variable nature of the signal from the ETS does have a consistent effect in varying the fuel delivery. In a lot of ways I'd like to do what John has done and give myself the choice to take it out of the equation. There again the Mighty 'G' runs so sweetly at any time I really can't be bothered. John? I hope your last comment wasn't an indication that you think I think you're full of sh!t? I don't always agree with people, (look at the vitriol I'm copping over on Phil's board for having the temmerity to disagree with someone!) but I'll always respect their opinions unless they suggest people do something that is downright dangerous! Your sollution seems elegant and extremely sensible to me! Pete

I think that the main reason why people suggest checking the level cold is to allow the oil to drain down and also to de-aerate. Personally I don't think it matters a toss. Check the bloody level with the bike upright and the engine turned off! As long as there is oil on the stick you know it's got some in so it shouldn't start squeaking when you're riding along! With 'Broad Sump' models it would seem pudent to keep the level towards the top of the marks on the stick. Pete