Scud

When I mentioned the possibility of using a thicker wire, he said that would reduce how far the spring could bend (and therefore would break easier). I just ASS-u-med thicker would be better, but maybe thinner would be more durable. He also said that a weak spot is created anytime a tool holds the wire and a bend is applied. That's why we are seeing breaks most frequently at 2 specific locations. But maybe just using the highest quality raw material (piano wire) will solve it. It's easy to imagine a strapped-for-cash Moto Guzzi production manager choosing to downgrade the spring material to save a Euro a unit. "Hey we can save €10,000 this year by using material X instead of piano wire..." While I am getting a free "Spring 101" class, he's pretty clear that he doesn't give advice or make recommendations... the company makes springs to specifications, not to applications. The customer does their own engineering.

I like this quite a bit. Eagerly awaiting further news and a proper dual-sport test - road and dirt. Suspension travel looks moderate, not long like a KTM adventure or Honda Africa Twin, but not short like a scrambler.

I've seen breaks in two positions - personally and in reviewing other threads. I think the most common is in the coil (as in my picture on the first page). Next is that the small straight piece breaks off at the 90-degree bend. That's what Czakky described and what I experienced very shortly after installing it on my Scura. The break on the coil was on my LeMans, which has the correct size boss for the coil to go around. Anyway, I just heard back from the spring place. They can make 50 springs at $6.00 and 100 @ $4.00 each. I just talked with the representative. He said they would make it from piano wire. Apparently, there is another, slightly cheaper material that is commonly used, but it is weaker than piano wire. I'm going to mail him a broken spring and a new one. He thinks he may be able to use a slightly thicker wire, but has to have the sample in hand before promising anything. I don't want to get over-optimistic, but I think I smell a solution.

But that's not the end position, is it? In the end positions the bump resp. the step would have contact with the small excentric pin, the lock pin as you could call it. There is some travel remaining to end position. It was hard to hold the levers in place and take the photo at the same time. The discovery here, at least for me, is that the little right-angle part of the spring cannot be larger - because it would interfere with another spring.

Last night I made a "spring" out of the thickest solder I could find to test my U-hook idea. I figure that since the 90-degree bend is one of the two failure points, that a more gradual, U-bend would be an improvement. Good News - it looks like there is room for the spring wire to be a little thicker (but not as thick as the solder) Bad News - the hook would probably interfere with the operation of the spring that returns the shift lever to the middle position. If you look carefully in the above picture, you can see where the two springs almost meet. This is with the lever in the downshifting position.

...but easily transferable to your next.

I think the "charm" depends on which seat. The spare spring was under the Scura's seat when the LeMans' spring failed.

I don't think it changed the handling. But the engine seems to rock a bit less at idle.

I know I wrote earlier that my wish was a coil spring kit. But the above is my real wish. I am gravitating toward the conclusion that the fundamental design is good as-is. There seems to be two quality control problems, both of which are bypassed by the "Japanese" coil spring modification: 1) oversized boss that binds the spring, and 2) weak original springs (and possibly even weaker replacements). Solution to 1 is measure and replace or modify as needed. Solution to 2 is where I'm focused now. I'm in e-mail dialog with the spring manufacturer. Asked what it would take to make 50 or 100 springs. If we can figure it out a better spring and Chuck can stress-test it, maybe we can get MG Cycle to stock it (cuz I don't want to go into the spring business). I can send a preselector to Chuck to hook up to motor - and it can do tens of thousands of shifts.

Belfast and Baldini... seem like fun guys, but not active here lately. Here's a pretty good discussion that started in 2004 and got resurrected in 2015. It's about the spring situation and the various size bosses. One poor guy broke 6 springs. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2584

...and my BMW K75s has a clever auto-retract spring that's actuated by the clutch cable at the transmission. And the Husky sidestand flies up and hits you in the balls if you stand too close to the bike. That's a mistake you make only once. I get distracted when there are people around. I've "stalled" my Scura more than once by putting it into gear with the sidestand down - thank-you e-nanny.

The new spring on my Scura broke as you described, Czakky. Perhaps it would be good to slightly round the edge of the arm where the small 90 of the spring makes contact. The one that broke Saturday is in my picture above. It broke on the coil. I rode it to work today. But I wasted Sunday afternoon on the repair. I wonder if a U-hook at the arm would be more durable than a 90-degree bend. I'll look and see if there is enough clearance to install a U-hook. Meanwhile, I sent a photo and inquiry to WB Jones Spring Co (link above) in Wilder, Kentucky.

So true. I traced my line through the curve with my mouse about 5 times. Nice trees too...

gstallons mentioned that he had a Racecraft spring - stronger than the original (although it might no longer be available). I'd be happy with a stronger spring in the original position - I'm not excited about drilling another hole in the cover. I just found this place that makes custom springs: https://www.springsfast.com/custom-extension-springs.php?ex=eep549-chxfib-0&gclid=Cj0KCQiArYDQBRDoARIsAMR8s_SL-TDDqDrKHZ4DOJUOtzgCa0VtWWMW148EpRo3laV-ummOm5cgh3AaAnEXEALw_wcB I'll send them a picture and measurements and see what's involved in making some thicker/stronger springs. As for why they keep breaking - it could be a quality issue. I pre-emptively replaced the shift spring on my Scura with a new one (from Moto Guzzi). It broke within a few thousand miles. Luckily, I kept the original - put it back in and it's been OK for a while.

Something like that might work if the loop could fit over the button on the arm. There's more clearance under the bottom gear (which is the top, open position in the photo). For the record, I had previously installed this shift pre-selector from 2004 V11. It had the "banana" upgrade. I previously thought the broken shift springs were mostly on the 2002 models. I put my LeMans back together with a standard spring, but I have the spare (2003 model) to play with and take measurements if needed. There are at least 3 variations on the shift pre-selector mechanism. But they all use the same spring and I think this coil spring fix would fit all variations. @Dave - yeah, I think it's conceptually as simple as you stated. But I think it all needs to get measured and tested. I'm just hoping we could either build a kit or describe the parts in enough detail that anyone could do it without further experimentation.

Great photo. Got any more? What were you riding?

That's the one. Chuck offered, in another thread, to machine something if needed. It seems to me that a custom-made post would be in order. Something that is fairly wide at the base to prevent rocking - and with a standard diameter to go through the case so it could be drilled out by a home mechanic like me. If you have the correct spring in hand, then I suppose the top end could be machined to accommodate it securely. So that's my wish... a custom-machined stud, a proper-strength and size spring, whatever mounting hardware is required, and some guidance about where (and what size) to drill the hole. That would make a fine kit. And how did the spring attach to the arm? Did it use the existing mount - or did that need to be replaced? I think it was replaced. If so, that might require a second custom-machined bit.

Looking good next to those lovely Gauges. And I note that this little upgrade can be done in 17 minutes or less.

Can we pool our collective experience and semi-mass produce a kit to replace the problematic shift lever spring with a coil? I just broke my second spring and am not looking forward to the possibility of another breaking in an inconvenient location (like the Mojave Desert). If the Indiana R&D team (Chuck and Footgoose) can figure out how to source stuff, I will contribute the pre-selector. I'll even send you a whole transmission if you think you need it. Of course, I'd like it back... But you can take your time since it's a spare. I've already done the polishing on this pre-selector per Phil's write-up. But I didn't get it adjusted correctly (ended swapping pre-selectors). http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19547&hl= I also installed a bearing on this one - instead of a solid disc for the detent gear. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19514&p=213785 And can somebody post the links to the coil spring modification? I tried a few searches and didn't find it yet.

Ha... I've done it twice. Previous owners of my LeMans and Greenie both disabled the switches. I re-enabled the switches immediately after both touch-downs.

Settling in with the Greenie... Thought I was getting great gas mileage, but then determined that the low-fuel light is no longer coming on. Barely avoided pushing... sputtered into the gas station... 5.1 gallons to full. Replaced a bunch of black-anodized fasteners with stainless: flyscreen, front fender, and some other bits. It's funny that the Greenie had so many dark-anodized bolts, while my Scura had all silver... and speaks to some sort of weird obsession that I compulsively replaced them on both bikes... Some people just can't leave shit alone. Put some Titanium pins in the front brake calipers. On my recent trip to Phoenix, my return trip was at night. Behind the flyscreen was way too bright. I literally "stuffed a sock in it" to prevent the headlight from reverse-illuminating the instruments and impairing my night-vision. So... foam strip from the hardware store has solved the problem. While I was at it, I installed an LED headlight that I got a while back from MartyNZ, but would not fit in the Scura's small plastic bucket. The Greenie's headlight and metal bucket is bigger - easy fit and far better light. Then, a little night-ride to check on my Daughter's High School's Winter Formal pre-gathering at her friend's house... the Greenie got surrounded by boys while I was leaving and I forgot to put the sidestand up. Hit it pretty hard on my first left... managed to stay on the bike. Fortunately, this occurred out of sight of said boys. That's when I remembered that the PO had removed the little button from the sidestand (leaving wire in place). No damage, button is now back in... and the electronic nanny-feature can protect me again. Ordered some silver Rizoma fluid tanks from Moto Forza (my local Ducati, Husqvarna, and MV dealer that had a devastating fire recently). Their new shop is super cool and I'm glad they have been able to re-open. I'm gonna try to buy more stuff from them. Heard a salesman in an ankle boot and crutches telling a prospective buyer how they could increase one of the Ducati's horsepower from something like 211 to something like 228. Wondered why and got back on my V11.

If gstallons doesn't buy the kit, I'll take it. That looks like a good value, and I just broke a shift spring.

I was thinking very much about that on the way home... in between the curse words echoing in my helmet.

Me too. But on my recent trip to Phoenix, I had it fully expanded and packed with heavy stuff. On the way home, there were severe crosswinds and I was constantly pushing it back up onto the tank. Admittedly, that was an extreme situation, but I do think the bag would be more stable in all situations without the pad.

I think I broke a pawl spring on my LeMans today. I was able to sneak in a few shifts after braking (which throws the arm forward). Fortunately, it happened close to home. One I got it in 3rd, I left it there and tried to time the remaining stops so I could roll through - but it can be coaxed to start in 3rd from a standstill. Oh joy... I get to smell gear oil tonight or tomorrow.