Scud

The season finale of The Bachelor was on tonight, house full of women... so I did some research... in the form of a canyon blast under a full moon and the scent of nigh-blooming jasmine. Gosh, that makes it sound like something from The Bachelor. Focused on the 3>4 upshift and what's going on that causes occasional missed shifts. The harder I'm accelerating, and quicker the clutch action, the more likely I am to miss the 3>4 upshift. If I back off the throttle in 3rd gear enough to allow mild engine braking (even for a fraction of a second), the 3>4 upshift goes in easily. Good news: knowing this makes it much more rideable - I just have to adjust my habits a little. Bad news: this seems like a problem deep in the gearbox, not a pre-selector issue - which makes swapping trannies even more likely. All thoughts, insights, speculation, or ridicule welcome. What could be going on inside the tranny to produce those symptoms?

Yeah, I knew you wanted that. I was just wondering if the different lower bracket might be an even better solution. It seems the cracked transmissions are mostly on the red-frame bikes - and the later subframe with the arms to the block may be the reason. But that bracket should be pretty for you to make. Then maybe you can get Chuck to make 20 of 'em and paint 'em zinc-chromate green.

Phil, I don't have one of those plates, but I do have an extra subframe from a 2002 bike - with the arms that wrap around the transmission. It would require tapping two holes in the engine case that go through into the bell-housing. I think the Loop and Tonti frames used these locations for frame connections. Bolts are M12 x 1.75 pitch x 35mm length.

I'm sure anybody who can finagle a transmission out like that can get it back together. So pardon me while I take a little detour on your thread and consider whether this an easier way to get the tranny out (since I may be doing it again soon myself). I thought crabbing the frame involved lifting the frame - tilting it forward over the engine by removing the rear-most upper subframe bolt. That would be difficult with a floppy rear wheel and swingarm still attached. So it looks to me like the engine and tranny were lowered as a unit - after detaching the lower engine mount bolts (to the timing chest) and all the transmission mount bolts. Then it could be lowered, just a couple inches, enough to pull the transmission off the engine. Does that sound right? I also note that the throttle bodies are removed - but there must be another reason for that.

Yeah - I saw the straps. But I thought the wheel, final drive and swingarm would have to be disassembled and removed. It looks like he left that whole assembly connected to shock. And it looks like he managed to get the transmission out without "crabbing the frame." Having been in there a few times recently, and thinking about going back in again... I'm both amazed and curious.

That's good news. And did he really remove the transmission just by pivoting the whole rear-end back on the shock mount? That looks like wizardry to me. Or maybe a multi-person job?

Pete's going to make another batch of official Roper Plates. I'm going to bring 10 into the US. I want one, so that makes 9 available. People occasionally find this thread and ask me if I have any more plates (which I don't). So I'll just hold a small inventory and resell as needed. This time, I'm not going to coordinate the gaskets. The plate alone fits into a USPS flat-rate envelope, but the addition of the upper sump gaskets requires a bigger package and more expensive shipping. I don't know the price yet (will depend on how many he makes, currency exchange, and postage from Australia) but I'll just pass along the cost, with slight rounding up for . Post up here or send me a PM if you want to pre-reserve one at a price to be determined later.

Very nice. What rear disc is that?

I got this transmission from eBay. The tranny was $500 and the seller said it was from a Nero Corsa, was in good shape, had about 20,000 miles, and had never been opened. I bought it a few months ago - in response to getting dealer quote of $500 just to open and inspect the transmission from my LeMans - and that was if I took it out of the bike. That was from the local BMW dealer who recently stopped carrying Moto Guzzi. That was also before I had gotten into a tranny for the first time and I was still intimidated by it. So, it cleaned up pretty well, and what I thought might be a leak appears to have been accumulated gunk. I gave it a quick flush with diesel fuel to get some more of the Redline heavy out. Cleaned the sight glass and breather, cleaned out the slave cylinder cavity. And the (nearly unobtainium) slave looks in good shape. The verdict - it runs through all the gears and there is no perceptible play of the output shaft in any gear, nor in neutral. If this transmission works, I'll do an autopsy on the other one to see why it's been having a hard time with 3-4. And maybe LowRyter will get a transmission case to paint silver for his leaky greenie.

I don't get the premium price for the Coppa Italias - not when Nero Corsas, Rosso Corsas, and Cafe Sports all have the same suspension. The Cafe Sport is the same as the Coppa but with more subdued color scheme. Although I think maybe the Coppa was the only one that came with Titanium exhaust from the factory.

I'm having a look at my spare tranny now. It had redline heavy in it, but appears to have been drained. Flushed it with diesel just to be sure... I'm a little gun-shy after looking in the last transmission... If I put that one in and it shifts better than the one that's in my Red LeMans now, that means the-take-out needs rebuilding and I'd be willing to take it apart and sell you just the black case, which you can paint. I remember there was a silver tranny on ebay a while back. Have you checked Teo Lamers? This is fixable...

That was sarcasm, right? These V11s are all limited production bikes. My Scura is one of 700 with a special number plate. Ironically, it's probably the one they made the most of... but nobody really knows... The bikes with premium Ohlins suspension, such as the Coppa Italiia, will cost you more than a similar condition Greenie - as you said you wanted in an earlier thread.

Good work. I've heard a few problems with the UFI filters. Docc swears by the Wix filters and I've started using those too.

OEM Part Name: throwout bearing, or thrust bearing, or release bearing Moto Guzzi Part Number: 12087001 Replacement Part Brand or Source: MG Cycle Part number or other identifier: same as Moto Guzzi part number Differences from OEM (if any): this is a captured bearing that comes with one spacer. It is also a bit thinner than the OEM part, which means it affects freeplay in the clutch push-rod. Other Compatible Vehicles: same for many big twin Guzzis Website link for source: MG Cycle (probably other sources too) Link to Further Discussion or Tips: Same thread as for the plates. http://www.v11lemans...showtopic=19808

OEM Part Name: clutch spring for twin disc, 10-spring clutches Moto Guzzi Part Number: 04084100 Replacement Part Brand or Source: MG Cycle Part number or other identifier: 12082300 (heavy) and 04084100 (light) Differences from OEM (if any): The heavy springs are much stiffer than stock, the light ones feel about the same Other Compatible Vehicles: same for many big twin Guzzis Other Comments: When I put 10 heavy springs in, the clutch lever required a lot of effort and a full pull to the handlebar. I learned, through MG Cycle, that Moto Guzzi alternated light and heavy clutch springs. When I used 5 of each, I got a more reasonable lever effort and the clutch released mid-way through the pull. Website link for source: MG Cycle (probably other sources too) Link to Further Discussion or Tips: Same thread as for the plates: http://www.v11lemans...showtopic=19808 The brightest chrome springs are the heavy ones, the others are new light ones. It seems to me that using 5 new heavy springs and re-using 5 of the original springs would be fine, but I have not tried that.

OEM Part Name: clutch friction disc - or clutch plate for twin disc clutches Moto Guzzi Part Number: 03084400 Replacement Part Brand or Source: LGC Part number or other identifier: 03084400LGC - this is the part number that MG Cycle Uses, manufacturer have a different number Differences from OEM (if any): Solid plate, versus the OEM spoked plate. Friction material is described as "glass fiber copper fiber" Other Compatible Vehicles: same for many big twin Guzzis Other Comments: As I understand it, if an OEM clutch fails, one of the primary causes is a broken spoke on one of the friction plates. The solid plate should be more durable. Website link for source: MG Cycle (probably other sources too) Link to Further Discussion or Tips: I had a bit of a misadventure with my clutch installation. I suspected the plates were the problem, but they were not. The plates were fine. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19808 This picture is of one of the plates after about 2,500 miles.

Nothing. Good plan.

Thanks Phil. My Scura has a smaller amount of play and the box on the Champagne project has no play - like my spare.

My LeMans was running for a long time with low oil pressure and both of those 3-hole tabs were missing. When I installed a plate and good gaskets, my pressure went back up to normal levels. So... even if there is damage to that portion of the gasket the engine will still hold some pressure if everything else is working. Moving on from the gasket... It seems most likely that the problem will be something that was touched during the installation - and least likely that an untouched component (like the oil pump) will fail coincidentally. Is there any effect if the two oil lines from the cooler get swapped? I know it's possible to get those lines crossed, but I don't know if it makes any difference. If the concern is that the oil pump has air in it, could the oil cooler be removed - then refilled with fresh oil, along with pre-filling both oil lines? That would certainly be easier than removing the oil pump. But if you're gonna remove the pump, have a timing cover gasket on-hand, and think about upgrading your timing chain tensioner "while you're in there."

I think the main problem was using 10 heavy springs, compounded by a pretty small amount of free-play in all the parts of the pushrod. I had also assembled the clutch with 10 heavy springs in my Champagne project - and that also took a lot of effort. It's also possible that one of the springs didn't seat correctly - as I explained above. But I had the engine vertical when I loosened the pressure plate and all the springs fell out, so and I didn't check that on disassembly. I think that alternating light and heavy springs is a good solution. In fact, that means I have new heavy springs available if anybody wants them. I had bought 20 for two clutches, but will only use 10 (5 in each). And Chuck - if "the kid" feels like pulling his bike apart, I bet he can get easier clutch effort by going 50/50 on light/heavy springs. And consider this a "bump" for my next question regarding the play in the output shaft. Video at link in my last post.

Haha... you are a total nut case. Takes one to know one. There were a couple clean, low-mile greenies for sale a few months ago. Just keep watching craigslist - do you know the search all of craigslist site: http://www.searchcraigslist.org/ If you don't care about originality, you could repaint a black or silver red-frame model.

And the 2002 and later subframes distribute some of the stress to the engine block. The later subframes have "arms" that reach around the transmission to the back of the block.

About 200 miles today and I'm happy to report that the clutch is now excellent. I included some long-hauls on slab, since that's where I lost lever free-play before. I did a lot more clutchless upshifts, which work very well - and so do clutchless downshifts in the upper gears with just a bit of throttle blip. In fact, my 3-4 clutchless upshifts were great, but when I used the clutch for 3-4 I still missed it sometimes. This made me think the problem is not in the pre-selector, but elsewhere. On further transmission inspection, I noticed that the transmission output shaft has some play. I can grab the driveshaft and push it back and forth and see the shaft sliding in out of the rear seal. My spare transmission has no similar play. http://vid1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/timscudder/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/LeMans%20Project/IMG_5940.mp4 Could this play in the shaft be causing the 3-4 upshift difficulties? How alarmed should I be about this? Can I run it like that for a set of tires?

I recently solved an intermittent electrical problem that was caused by loose connections in the relay base. If any relay is loose or wobbly, you could pinch the relay pins a bit - or get access to the base itself to try to tighten it up. My LeMans has been starting really well since that simple fix.

As Docc mentioned, you can run the vent line(s) between starter and transmission. The oil return line fits nicely inside the channel of that starter cover. I've removed the vent lines completely from my bikes. As I understand it, the Euro-spec bikes came new without those hoses - so they evaporated along with the evaporation canisters... My LeMans' sidestand was badly worn when I got it. The bike leaned so badly that I ended up buying a new stand. I like your repair though - much more affordable. I think some people worry that the sidestand switch contributes to reliability problems or non-starts. My LeMans had both the sidestand and clutch switch disabled. I've also restored those functions. FWIW, my K75s has auto-retract: the cable-operated clutch pulls a lever that releases the sidestand if it's down - and the springs pull it up.