Scud

1 - I think the master cylinder piston may have been extending too far, because the too-thick friction plates would push the little cup forward. The cup will gradually move backwards as the friction material wears. The complete pushrod, bearing and spacer assembly is now 0.5mm longer than stock. I think this compensates for the extra material and is why the "washer trick" did end up fully releasing the clutch. 2 - I was trying to figure out what you meant here. I put in new friction plates and intermediate plate, but I re-used the pressure plate and the starter ring (both of which contact the friction plates). These did not have any noticeable lip on them. Correct. I dabbed some gear oil on the bearing and all the other little parts. Everything to the right of the O-ring in the above photo also gets lubricated by the normal operation of the transmission. After all this, I regret buying the SD-TEC clutch plates. According to Gordon at MG Cycle, they've been the most long-lasting and trouble-free plates he's carried. However, they just recently manufactured a batch that was too-thick. So... I'd avoid those until they run a correct batch. If, at some point, I feel the need to pull the engine out again, I might try putting a 5-speed RAM in there (since I have a spare clutch hub to make it fit the six-speed).

Time for a little update on life with this LeMans... Solved an apparently complex electrical problem with nothing but new, tight-fitting relays. Details here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19777 Looking back at the previous posts, I was a bit optimistic about the clutch... but I think I'm on the right track now. Details here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19808 And onto the fun stuff... I put the Ohlins shock on today, which came along with my Champagne project. I'll move the Hyperpro over to that project. I gave it a little test ride and the shock is an improvement over the Hyperpro. The shock has a remote pre-load adjuster. And what a perfect mounting plate Moto Guzzi provided (if you remove the helmet lock.) I'll just drill another hole (the adjuster has 2 holes) and get some stainless hardware. I mean seriously, that space is perfect... I can imagine the conversation at the factory... "...and this is where we put the pre-load adjuster." "Nah, who would want that? Put a helmet lock instead." While I was up to my elbows in clutch slave cylinder, I took the opportunity to install the powdercoated lower subframe that I've had in waiting. The take-off had some rusty spots. Also got a pair of Dunlop Roadsmart 3 tires in a fun trade - but the current tires probably have a couple thousand miles left on them. Eager to try out the Dunlops.

Thats cool, whenever you get a chance. Ciao Chance. My Harpers order arrived today, so I tapped the seal in. It is the same as the one I removed.

Ok, ride report. I did a 4,000 foot ride. That's net elevation increase... took 120 miles round trip to do it. I followed a red, white, and gold Aprilia Dorsodura for while. That is fine looking and sounding supermotard. Then he got aggressive with passing over double-yellow lines... bye-bye. The thicker stack of material, including the new bearing and extra spacer (washer) has definitely released the drag on the clutch. I can get into neutral easily at any time. And this is the first time since I installed the new clutch that I have heard the ching-ching-ching with the clutch pulled in, so I know the plates are moving freely when the clutch is in. There was no ching-ching-ching before. Shifts are improved, though I still need a full squeeze on the clutch lever and I miss shifts if I get lazy. However, the make-up shift (following the miss) goes in better - it previously made painful re-engagement noises after missed shifts. I suspect that I may still have a little problem with the pre-selector, as I had a hard time with a few bits when I rebuilt it. That can wait... All in all - totally ridable now. I just have be precise in my shifts. This is difficult coming off my other bikes, because they are all easy-shifters and I can get away with sloppy/lazy shifting (even the Scura). I think the key problem here is that the clutch plates are too thick. It seems that I could probably have put in two spacers instead of one. But I think I'll just ride it for a while and see how it goes. Maybe a little plate-wear will improve things even more.

Well, I decided that trying to wear the friction discs out was not my style... so in we go. Fortunately, you only have to remove a few parts to get access to the clutch slave... such as the lower subframe... And here is an interesting development. Thickness original (2 washers and throwout bearing) that I removed: 3.88 mm Thickness of new (captured bearing and 1 washer): 3.48 mm So that's 0.4mm thinner, and I figure the clutch plates are 0.6 mm too thick, which pushes the clutch button (and pushrod and bearing) 0.6mm further toward the flywheel... which means the clutch slave starts 0.6mm overextended. So now I have to make up 0.4 + 0.6 = 1.0 mm. And the washers I removed are 0.91... And to top it off, I was actually helping my daughter with her math homework in the garage while working on this. Who says you don't use algebra in real life? Note the difference in the new bearing (lower) from the old. It's captured into a plate so it does not need a backing washer. It's 2 pieces, vs. 3 for the original. I installed the parts as lined up on the bottom, with one extra washer. Before removing the slave and piston, I put the bike in second gear. With the clutch pulled in, I could turn the driveshaft by hand, but I could tell there was resistance. After installing the thicker stack of stuff with the new bearing, I could turn the driveshaft freely. I am cautiously optimistic and gonna go put it back together.

Send me a PM with your address. In exchange I want a transmission input gear tool... Oh wait, you already gave me your extra one when you loaned me tools - and you wouldn't even accept payment for shipping. You get a "free" used clutch slave.

I also thought that a small amount of wear could fix the issue. I think I have about 500 miles on the new clutch - including one short ride where I tried slipping the clutch a lot - but I don't like riding that way. Adding a washer = 5 minutes. Getting to the point where I can add a washer = a few hours (plus reassembly = a day). And it just seems so close to totally releasing. Maybe I'll put the bike on the front wheel chock (and that against a wall) and try to bed the friction material as you described. In fact, that sounds like fun... maybe a few smoky burnouts in the garage while I'm at it. I will have to be very strategic about the timing of this "maintenance procedure." On a serious note, that also seems risky... like I could engage the clutch and lose control of the bike. I rode it to work today. Maybe I'll abuse the clutch on the way home - but if the problem is really 0.6mm, that's going to take a long time to wear off.

Here are the current symptoms (none of which were problems before the new clutch): Slight drag: with the bike in gear and clutch pulled in, I can move the rear wheel by hand and I can push the bike. But this is just a little bit harder than when in it's neutral. Missing shifts: Most of my shifts are excellent, but I have a recurring problem with 3-4 and 4-3. I frequently miss the upshift and the downshift, which yields a false neutral, followed by an unpleasant gear-mesh noise on shifting out of the false neutral (up or down). Difficulty getting into neutral: If I come to a full stop in gear, it is difficult to find neutral. It requires more effort than it should, and mostly toggles between 1st and 2nd. This is not a problem with the engine off, only while running. Clutch lever release point: I have to pull the clutch all the way to the handlebar to get release. Here's what I've done recently: Replaced clutch friction discs with SD-TEC plates sourced from MG Cycle. I think this could be the source of my problem. When I ordered, Gordon at MG told me they were a little thicker than normal and sometimes cause clutch to not fully disengage. I notice that MG has recently updated their product description to indicate that the plates are 8.3mm, compared to 8.0mm factory spec. That means 2 over-thick plates adds 0.6mm to the clutch stack. Replaced intermediate plate and springs. Rebuilt shift pre-selector (springs, polish, etc.) and added Lucky-Phil-Chuck magic shift extender. I drained the Redline Shockproof Heavy last night and replaced with synthetic gear oil. No chunks of metal, but there was a little metal powder on the drain plug magnet. This seemed normal - in fact, it was relieving after the bad noises I've been hearing. Thinking about next steps: I have a new throwout bearing (I didn't replace it when I did the clutch). Gordon suggests that I use an extra washer between the throwout bearing and the piston (that would be three total washers instead of two). Supposedly, this is the equivalent of having a longer pushrod and may compensate for the additional thickness of the clutch parts. He said that has helped with manual (cable) clutches, but has never tried it with a hydraulic clutch. And he wants me to tell him if it works... which makes me the test-monkey. So - It's kind of big job to get at the clutch slave cylinder. What do you guys think about the chances of this working? Some relevant pics.... This is the SD-TEC clutch as currently installed. These are the clutch pushrod assemblies from other bikes. EDIT: I had LGC plates, not SD-TEC. They are about the same thickness as OEM plates. See next page for measurements.

As for the clutch tool, I don't think the diameter is as important as getting the teeth in the clutch plates aligned. I use this tool from MG Cycle. The three points that go into the teeth are the key. http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=2618 I'd offer to loan it, but I think I'm going to need to use it soon.

Let's keep Czakky's description of the current problem (from 2-21 post above) in mind. What could account for the fact that it "purrs like a kitten" at 2,000 RPM, but has hard starts and shuts down off-throttle with a backfire? I don't know the answer - just trying to make sure we are asking the right questions. I have a pair of injectors, which I would gladly send to Wisconsin in exchange for some cheese. But... can injectors work well at some RPMs but not others?

Or at least rotate the relays you currently have and make sure they are all making good contact. I had three seemingly unrelated problems solved, as if by magic, by putting in new relays (but one that I removed was loose). There will be a logical solution. Chances are it will seem obvious once we find it. How's the condition of the rubber caps or hoses on the throttle bottle vacuum tubes?

They were willing to delete "Speedhut made in USA" and replace with "Made in Italy" for me. But I think it was another $20 and I decided not to.

I probably have one of those sensors, along with a stock TPS (aren't you using an aftermarket one?). Build a wish-list of what you'd like to be able to swap/test and I'll see how much of I have on-hand. I can send it to you - and if none of it helps, you can send it all back. I'm no expert on wiring harnesses, but I do know that the same connectors can be wired differently in different years as manufacturers make changes. This is a general statement for cars and bikes, and I don't know if it is relevant to your situation. I might even have a front wiring harness from a 2002.

There were a lot of changes from 2001-2003 with the 2002's being the "transition" year. I can't imagine that the gauges are the problem, but are there important differences in the wiring harness? Did you replace the whole front section of the harness?

Ok... it starts and idles, right? If yes, then I don't see how wires can be crossed. And it dies when you give it throttle? I'm getting toward the edge of what I know here... but can you connect a voltmeter to your TPS and see if the voltage increases gradually as you roll the throttle open? If there's a dead spot on your TPS could it be telling the ECU that the throttle is closed?

OMG, I once left paper towels in the intake manifold of an old Cadillac V-8. It started and died, started and died. Then it shot the whole wad out the tail pipe and ran perfectly.

Ha - Czakky needs a carbureted thumper with knobby tires. But back to the present problem... as I understand it, it will still start, but will not keep running. So you have air and spark. That leaves the third part of the equation - a fuel problem. I see you mentioned checking fuel pressure, but I did not see anything about fuel volume. On the 2002s the gas goes from tank, through manual petcock, then pump, filter, injectors, external pressure regulator, and back to tank. I like Roy's suggestion to try the old filter - in the extraordinarily unlikely event that you have a defective new filter. But before that... How's the manual petcock? Is it totally open - or might you have left it partially closed when the tank was off? What about the screen around the petcock's inlet? Maybe it had accumulated some debris, which hardened in the air while the tank was empty.

bb - do you ride dirt too? I know it's risky to ride solo - and I pack accordingly. There are some big animals out there too. I spooked a few Elk once when taking a dirt route from Sedona to Flagstaff. Then you have to think about bears in Eastern AZ and California... The tracking is becoming increasingly important to my family, so I just ordered the Garmin InReach Explorer. Should be arriving in about a month. Given that this device has two-way communication, in a worst-case scenario someone can ping the device for it's current location and know where to find me.

The fuel filter is directional. Is the arrow on the filter pointing in the direction of fuel flow?

Well... it looks like my procrastination is paying off. I've been thinking about upgrading my Garmin GPS 60 for a while, and I keep not buying a Spot device (despite the fact I often venture far off-road by myself). But good news, Garmin has just released a combo-device. Their new InReach handheld GPS units also connect to satellite, but they allow two-way messaging and connect to mobile devices via bluetooth for uber-coolness. Basic subscription cost looks to be about the same as Spot. How new are the devices? Amazon is only taking pre-orders. This could be what I've been waiting for. For extra $150 a year, you can get worldwide Medivac insurance. Another $30 gets you worldwide search and rescue. Good for peace of mind for the people who wait at home while you romp around Mexico...

OEM Part Name: Stainless Steel Bolt Kit Moto Guzzi Part Number: N/A (or all bolts and washers have separate numbers, which I am not going to look up) Replacement Part Brand or Source: StainlessCycle.com Part number or other identifier: Moto Guzzi Squarehead Differences from OEM (if any): stainless hardware - all bolts are allen-head caps - not phillips (alt cover) or standard bolt-heads (starter). Other Comments: includes correct bolts and different types of washers for alternator cover, timing chest, oil pan, bell-housing, valve covers, intake ports, starter, and exhaust flanges. And they "highly recommend the use of anti-seize!" Website link for source: http://www.stainlesscycle.com/presta/en/53-moto-guzzi

I still haven't got one of those Spots. Thanks for the reminder - doing some research now as I am contemplating a longer solo ride soon. One of those would be good for solo street riding too. I like the ability to send custom text messages via the spot - an occasional "I'm OK." I leave a ride-plan, and I ride conservatively when I go solo. But when there's a chance to exit a snowdrift onto a slippery wooden bridge... well... you gotta try that... (at low speed).

I recently had mine rebuilt at a local Ducati dealer with parts I sourced from Dan Kyle Racing. Chuck just did it himself. Details in this thread: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19782 Welcome to the forum.

So the order is: 3/4 gallon - no start, but slight ignition detected. Fix fuel leak and add another gallon of gas. Charge battery. Starts and idles, but dies with more throttle. If #4 was only one or two tries, you may still have some air in the fuel lines. It will take a little while to purge all the air. You can't go wrong with new plugs, but I'd be curious to know if it runs normally tomorrow after you let it idle for a little while. If so, that could mean you still had some air in the fuel lines today.

Two ideas: 1 - 3/4 of a gallon is about the unusable quantity remaining in the tank when you run out of gas. The pump will push that 3/4 gallon to the right side of the tank through the pressure regulator - but it draws fuel from the left. Put in another gallon and try again. 2 - if that and fresh plugs don't work, then check every connection that you had apart. Maybe something electrical didn't click-in all the way.