Mal Posted June 17, 2003 Posted June 17, 2003 Hi all after approx 16 years of 'old' Guzzi ownership, I've gone and bought a brand new black v11 Le Mans - its fab 500 brilliant miles so far, however it is a 2002 model (heavily discounted) which I've heard has a potential gearbox return spring problem. I was hoping to take it to Italy on a 2500 mile trip in a couple of weeks time but I am now worried the spring problem may arrise in the middle of my holiday. My questions are, what sort of milages does this problem occur at ?(or is it anytime). I'm happy to delve into engine internals so is it a realistic proposition to take a sprare spring and fix it myself ?(which would be a better alternative than waiting for it to be fixed if I am miles awy from a Guzzi dealer). any advice would be appreciated. Mal
Guest Jaap Posted June 17, 2003 Posted June 17, 2003 Congrats on your purchase. Have fun with it! I have a 2002 LM with 5200 kms. Not happened (yet)
Murray Posted June 17, 2003 Posted June 17, 2003 I understand it was a batch of springs in the 2002 run. The local dealer said something about a factory recall dunno how you would check that out but would be worth looking into. I understand that you do not have to remove the gaerbox to do this anymore so it is quiet feasiable to do it on the side of the road. However definatly talk to someone who knowes and get them to explian the procdure fully. Enjoy the new machine.
twhitaker Posted June 17, 2003 Posted June 17, 2003 Mine broke at 6000 miles. As mentioned before, it was an easy fix. I bought an extra spring. Should never need it. Know what I mean. I bought a can of fix a flat several years ago and the paint is gone from rattling around in the saddlebag. I would suggest carrying along a spring to ward off the demons and your original will last forever.
Guest russ Posted June 17, 2003 Posted June 17, 2003 7k and no spring issue. It might depend on how hard you are on it
RichMaund Posted June 17, 2003 Posted June 17, 2003 I too believe it was a bad batch used in some 2002 models. I can't remember any others having the problem. My 2000 V11S still shifts beautifully smooth. Best to ride the snot out of it to test it! Most seem to fail quickly if they are to fail at all!
Guest Thundering Subash Posted June 17, 2003 Posted June 17, 2003 Welcome Mal, and congrats on your new bike Isn't it terrible knowing you may have a stupid little part highly prone to failure that could leave you on the side of the road, but then again, maybe not??? Arrrrggghhh. I only have 1,300 miles on my '02 Lemans (I also feel I got a great deal), but so far so good with repect to the tranny. From what I've seen, Guzzi seems to address certain problems over time, while others crop up here and there. I mention this as you say you have a black 02 Lemans. While this may have been discussed previously on this forum, I have an 02 Lemans which I bought and it was not available in black, only in red/gray or champagne (and green for the Tenni). While Guzzi may use the same parts bins from one year to the next, I imagine where problems are identified corrections are made. To my knowledge, in the states the black Lemans first became available in '03 (along with the solid checkererd red) with a number of other mods besides color. At any rate, I just can't keep it straight in terms of year and problem, as the years don't seem to match from one country to another (at least in terms of bike color). Any thoughts or clarification from others on this subject I'm sure would be quite helpful and welcome.
Baldini Posted June 17, 2003 Posted June 17, 2003 Mal, Spring on my 02 Scura went at 2,500 miles. I was in a Guzzi dealer today, they have had three come in in the last week or so with broken boxes, all low mileage. The fix is quite simple but a bit fiddly. The cover behind the gearshift pedal comes off with the selector mechanism, containing the spring. There's apparently three springs - the one that breaks is the one with one long & one short arm, short arm with a 90 degree bend (which is where it breaks). You have to drop the oil. I also have have older Guzzis, done quite a bit of work on them, inc g'box. I wouldn't fancy fixing this at the side of the road... Where abouts are you? KB, Mid Wales
Mal Posted June 18, 2003 Author Posted June 18, 2003 KB I'm up in West Yorkshire, (where abouts in Wales are you) I've heard of a lot of Scuras with this problem. I do have an old but reliable 1000 Le Mans that I could take to Italy but I was set on taking the new one, still toying with risking it and taking a spare spring, I don't want to restrict myself to not taking my new beast on hols. I've delved into many Guzzi engines and gearboxes in the past so the thought of doing so on hols isn't too frightening (especially as you don't need to take out the engine as you do with the old desighn) but I have to admit its not high on my list of fun things to do on holiday. Did you do the work on yours yourself? are there any things I should watch out for? cheers (and thanks to everyone else) Mal
Martenni Posted June 18, 2003 Posted June 18, 2003 Hey A Tenni and a Scura that i know of have had 2 springs each go in the first 2000 miles but my Tenni has 2400mileswith no problem with the spring of course ive just had to replace the rear wheel bearings so maybe the factory fitted duff bearings instead of a weak spring just so i would appreciate the character bike i ride Regards Martin ........................... Tenni 165 old 950
Baldini Posted June 18, 2003 Posted June 18, 2003 I have not fixed the box yet. I have got the cover off & await a spring. There are two springs on the selector mechanism.There is a double coil similar to fitted in the 5 speeds. Behind & above that a single coil with one short & one long arm - This is the one that I've seen break (at the 90 degree bend on the short arm where it locates). It is my feeling that there was a batch of duff springs (either material or manufacture) put in during the 02 model run. Scuras seem particularly prone to failure. I believe that Guzzi is aware of the problem. Unfortunately it seems that some broken springs have been replaced with the same duff stock, resulting in a second failure. I have been told there is a modified spring from Guzzi - but I do not know how you tell a good one from a bad one. It may be that this is just the same spring but without whatever manufacturing glitch causes failure. How do you know if you're putting in a good one? I would have thought that Guzzi could work out which bikes have bad springs & fix it on a recall, this problem is potentially dangerous. It would be useful to set up a poll on this site, to see which bikes have had the spring fail and at what miles. How do you do this - Jaap? Al? It may depend on how hard you use it as to when it goes, but it seems to me that at least on some bikes, early failure is inevitable. If we knew which bikes were affected, then an early fix could save a lot of grief - Guzzi could sort this & it pisses me off that they don't. I love Guzzis - but someone at Guzzi needs a kick up the arse (or ass for our US brethren). ________________________________________________________ Mal, We are in North Powys, near Welshpool. I've had Guzzis for 20 years - you'd have thought I would have known better...nothing changes. A Guzzi mechanic, recently innundated with broken gearboxed Scuras, suggested I see a doctor... Although possible, fix would be no fun by roadside. Cover has to be got off (make sure it's in neutral), no gasket - held firm with goo, oil out (plug is needless to say right above the collector box), bolts are loctited & some a little awkward to get at (needed to cut down allen key), setting up the sliding dogs to locate the selector mech looks fiddly, needs a torch, etc. - all fine in the garage with bits & pieces to hand, but by some French roadside with the bike toolkit... Good luck, KB.
dlaing Posted June 18, 2003 Posted June 18, 2003 Baldini's description of a roadside repair is enough to make me not carry a spare. The fact that the springs often break repeatedly suggests that a custom spring would be a better option than OEM(Guzzi), so if you are traveling and it breaks, you'll probably best off finding a garage and and make your own spring or have one professionally made with a soft, unstressed bend, and slightly heavier gauge than stock.
Baldini Posted June 19, 2003 Posted June 19, 2003 I've been told that the new springs Guzzi are issueing have a wider, smoother radius where they turn thru the 90degree. The old ones had an adbrupt bend. It may also be worth radiusing the plate where the spring locates?
Baldini Posted June 21, 2003 Posted June 21, 2003 Just to keep this fascinating subject to the forefront of your minds... I have the bits out but am reluctant to put it back together the way Guzzi had it, particularly the way the spring is retained at the bottom. It looks like a real afterthought - promoting wear. Has anyone actually replaced this spring themselves - did you come up with any better way? Also, has anyone seen inside early 6 speed & 02 - is it the same arrangement? Thank you for your patience, you can now go back to concentrating on extracting maximum performance from the poor overweight beast. KB, Wales.
wildbill Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 just FYI, my lemans suffered two broken shifter springs in 2000 miles - i then ordered a replacement from hank blackstock (i think i have that spelled correctly, he lives in OK i believe). anyway, since the new spring went in there have been no failures, and it may be just my perception but the bike seems to shift more crisply - no missed shifts or (sometimes) mushy feel anymore. the spring was about $10 if memory serves. was money well spent as i don't worry about it anymore, and my dealer was nice enough to pop it in there for free...
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