v11 lemans saddlebag reposition

[wheelsucker]

There's a member on wildguzzi that has a Le Mans with saddlebags mounted further back than the Hepco Becker bags, can someone tell me how he did this or point me to a tutorial, and can anyone identify if those are H&B bags or givi's? I would PM him if the wildguzzi admins would approve my account. Here's the photo:

 

 

[docc]

Those look like bags from a Ducati ST 2.

 

That far behind the axle I suppose he is not so concerned about wieghting the front tire.

[Zoom Zoom]

I recall that thread. Those are Ducatti bags. Mounts are fabricated.

 

If you care to PM me, I can send you a pic of my LeMans with color matched HB bags on my '03. Practical, and looks pretty good too.

 

Zoom Zoom,

John Henry

[rocker59]

Why don't you just PM Yaledriver? That's his bike.

 

The bags and mounts are from a Ducati ST2.

 

Some additional bracketing was made so they would work on the LeMans.

[VA Sean]

Whole thread on V11 Sport bags going on the front page at wildguzzi right now.

 

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=9491.0

 

[Guest ratchethack]

Hmmmmmmmmm. This is just me, and please understand that I've never been a "bagger" kind-of-a-rider, favoring instead -- and only when necessary -- a tank bag and, when absolutely pressed to the limit, a small pillion-mounted bag tucked up close behind for everything that doesn't fit in the tank bag. I've always preferred the handling of an unladen bike, and generally do day-tours only. If I were doing cross-country touring, it'd be another matter altogether, and I reckon in this case if I had to carry excessive luggage, I'd be driving a van, a car towing a trailer, or driving a motor home (all o' which I've done, BTW).

 

And by all means, to each his own -- no offense intended whatsoever toward our many Mega-Touring friends!!

 

But I've always been amazed by the sheer immensity (and apparent weight) of side and top bags that people bolt on to their motorcycles. My bikes (every one of 12 ea. I've owned, including the two I ride now) have been fairly sensitive to putting as much as 100 lb. on the pillion in terms of compromised handling, not to mention the effect on the tires and suspension, which ideally need to be adjusted (pressure, preload, damping, etc.) to match even this kind of a load change.

 

Now 100 lb. or so on the pillion is one thing. . . I can only imagine wot's it like to double or even triple this amount of weight and hang it way up and so far out behind, creating wot amounts to a big, heavy sail hoisted out on a mizzen mast? In effect, it becomes a lever on a fulcrum at the rear wheel that multiplies all the negative effects of mass so far up & out behind such a short wheelbase?!

 

I can't think of wot could destabilize an otherwise fairly stable vehicle more than this, but that's just me....

 

Yeah, I've seen caravans o' Lead Wings, LT Luxo-Barges, etc. loaded with the Big Berthas with all their luggage out back evidently comfortably enjoying their latte's underway on wot looks like "living room ergo" tours. . . . But I guess my idea of riding enjoyment just doesn't include anything close to fighting a 2-wheeled Winnebago over mountain passes when the wind warnings are up -- or even when they aren't, f'er that matter.

 

Now we come to the matter of mounting hard bags. I've seen some top boxes mounted so high and far out behind that they look like alien spacecraft trailing behind, trolling for some o' that highly sought after human DNA. . . . The "sail factor" of this kind of rig has just got to be a handful in a high wind?? Then there's consideration of wot a fully loaded bag mounted that far up and back must do with the force of wind blast at 80 mph -- combined with its weight -- to unweight the front end on a lever arm that long, not to mention wot it does to heat up, overload & distort the rear tire contact patch. . . .

 

Along the same lines, why you'd want to put side bags further back on a "sporting" (that is, non-heavy touring) bike such as a V-11, rather than as forward up, and close to center of mass of the bike as possible is beyond me. . . . 'Specially since the Guzzi is already considerably aft weight-biased to start with!?!?

 

Enquiring minds just gotta know!

[dlaing]

 

Along the same lines of thinking, why you'd want to put side bags further back than as close to center of mass of the bike as possible is beyond me. . . . 'Specially since the Guzzi is already considerably aft-weight biased to start with!?!?

 

Enquiring minds just gotta know!

It helps with wheelies

 

 

'Specially since the Guzzi is already considerably aft weight-biased to start with!?!?

Note the LeMans is not as aft biased as your sport with 53:47 ratio.

[VA Sean]

Re - the full bags and gear...

 

I have a tank bag at all times -- but it does not hold nearly enough for more than a simple day trip... especially if my wife is riding with me.

 

Additionally, rally season is a relatively big deal in the States.

 

And because our states are so large, getting to and from rallies in other states to mix and mingle with new and old friends means needing to carry a good bit of gear.

 

If you want to bring clothes, rain gear, sleeping bag, tent, light shoes (so you don't have to wear your motorsickle boots all the time), a towel and shower gear for a 3-4 day trip, having the capacity to carry most or all of that stuff becomes obvious fairly quickly.

 

[Guest ratchethack]

Note the LeMans is not as aft biased as your sport with 53:47 ratio.

Dave -- 47/53 F/R is the unladen ratio I got alright. Leave us now further consider:

 

The LM, with its larger fairing than my Stucchi 1/4 fairing, weighs only slightly more overall in stock trim than my Sport. I've hefted a '04 LM fairing when it was off the bike. I didn't weigh it, but it ain't very heavy, relatively speaking. For all practical purposes, the LM likely has very close to the same 47/53 ratio UNLADEN as wot I measured, since my Sport has the significant offsetting effect (as far as fore-aft ratio is concerned) of lightweight FBF oval carbon mufflers out back.

 

Wot d'you figure the LADEN weight bias of a "Big Bagger" LM would be with bags fully loaded?

 

The LADEN weight bias on my Sport is 42/58 F/R.

 

Extrapolating from this, here's my best estimate of LADEN weight bias of a fully loaded LM "Big Bagger" with loaded big top box (Bertha's travel bag with full "kitchen sink" amenities), fully loaded side bags, average weight Guzzisti, and 150 lb. Bertha (with riding gear) on board:

 

Somewhere fairly close to 30/70, F/R.

 

Roughly calculating: 530 lb. Guzzi + 350 lbs. rider & passenger + 150 lbs. loaded bags = half a ton plus 30 lb.!!.

 

Now if y'er a rear tire, are you gonna be a HAPPY kinda tire supporting 721 lbs., or are you apt to be a little stressed?!?!

 

I just checked the max load rating of my Metzeler Z6 rear. It's 716 lb.!!

 

The Z6 front max load rating is 520 lb. He'd be quite a bit happier supporting a mere 300 lbs. . .

 

But on top o' the static load, consider the added effect of wind blast with the sail effect on this Big Rig at 80 mph, and throw in gusting high side winds over mountain passes, bumps, holes, sand and gravel-strewn surfaces with occasional snow melt/rain runoff hiding in the shadows, sheer drop-offs with no guard rails, etc....

 

Is this adding up to as dubious a consideration f'er you as it is f'er me??

 

It's the 30/70 fore-aft part's got me the most concerned. . .

 

Anyone out there actually take weight bias measurements on a loaded, Big Bagger LM? I know of serious cross-country touring guys (no Guzzisti amongst the lot, however) who pay close attention to it out of practical necessity...

 

Somewhere, somebody has more'n likely done a wind-tunnel analysis of motorcycle weight distribution with all combinations of passenger and cargo considerations -- dare I imagine a likely candidate for a test might be the famous wind tunnel at the Guzzi Works at Mandello del Lario -- the one that's too small for testing much of any kind of vehicle but motorcycles?

[rocker59]

Ratchethack,

 

Sometimes a guy needs hardbags when he takes off on a little trip:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8941

 

The last overnight trip I took on my LeMans was 4,500 miles... I was glad to have the H+B bags for that...

[Greg Field]

Or if you ride everyday and need to pick up groceries and stuff. Or if you need to take parcels to the post office as part of your work. Or, if you lead rides and are expected to carry enough tools to fix whatever might go wrong on anybody's bike. Or if you live in an area with wild swings in weather and temperature, such that you need to carry extra gear to be safe. Or . . . there're lots of good reasons for saddlebags. Most bikes look better without bags, but it ain't all about looks, is it?

[Guest ratchethack]

Hey hey hey now! I thought I'd made myself clear enough on this?

. . . there're lots of good reasons for saddlebags. Most bikes look better without bags, but it ain't all about looks, is it?

Whoa there, Greg -- who said anything about looks?! I'm certainly not against bags 'cause they don't necessarily play all that well for Best of Show boulevard parading purposes!! I'm not "against" bags at all!!

 

Again - I simply prefer the HANDLING of an unladen bike whenever I can get away with it -- especially in the case of the aft-biased and relatively HEAVY Guzzi, which I've discovered benefits a great deal in the handling department by getting as much weight FORWARD as possible!! Thankfully, in my case that's nearly ALL the time! But that's just me. . . .

 

Just an observation, Gents. Sorry if my analysis presents some kind of unsettling conflict???

. . .by all means, to each his own -- no offense intended whatsoever toward our many Mega-Touring friends!!

I'm not belittling those who put bags on Guzzi's, Gents! To each his own, as I thought I'd implied?? Again -- I cast no aspersions wotsoever on my fellow Guzzisti with bags!!

 

Why, some o' my very best riding friends ride Baggers!

 

I do b'lieve, however, based on up-close & personal observation over many years of riding, that there are right and wrong ways to do it! IMHO there are many riders who not only OVERDO IT in the cargo carrying capacity department, but who appear to be doing it without much if any consideration of the trade-offs and compromises involved -- particularly when bolting on those Jumbo Container Ship Top Boxes far back and high enough into commercial air space to require a Federal Aviation license, not to mention evidently approaching or exceeding the limits of rear tire max load ratings!!

 

Then there seems to be a considerable contingent who do this kinda thing to "Sport" bikes?!?!

 

Sorry, no offense of any kind intended. There's just an endless supply o' stuff that I find bewildering, I guess. . . .

[Martin Barrett]

I have been accused of over packing

 

 

But I'm with Ratchet those bags do seem an allfull long way back. Luckily I come supplied with a natural counter weight that places a large amount of weight just forward of the seat

 

I see the bike as a GT rather than a sports. That's GT in trans continental, not Winnebago

[Guest ratchethack]

Martin, by the photo, you seem to've packed the LM quite well for solo touring -- particularly since there's no Jumbo Cargo Container extension protruding conspicuously back and out into the stratosphere on a big lever arm behind -- AND since, as you've pointed out, you seem to've counter-balanced things nicely with not just one, but TWO tank-bags, at least one of which seems to be significant by way of heft, by y'er own analysis.....

[Martin Barrett]

Martin, by the photo, you seem to've packed the LM quite well for solo touring -- particularly since there's no Jumbo Cargo Container extension protruding conspicuously back and out into the stratosphere on a big lever arm behind -- AND since, as you've pointed out, you seem to've counter-balanced things nicely with not just one, but TWO tank-bags, at least one of which seems to be significant by way of heft, by y'er own analysis.....

 

Quite right solo configuration. Just to clarify twin bag bagster tank bag set up and riders own long range hump. I am the shitp of of the desert