Clutch Slippage??

[Guest ratchethack]

Ain't nothin' like the voice of experience.

[Greg Field]

Yes, someone was in there before. Measure the thickness of the plates before you re-install them. If they're even close to 7mm, get new ones. Check the steel intermediate plate for warping. Check for both "wavey" warpage and "cone" warpage.

[pete roper]

As Greg sez, any doubt and just get new ones.

 

I believe Greg is a great believer in the latest itteration of the factory plates? While I've never had any problems with the Surflex type I believe that the factory ones are supposed to be less harsh in their take up? WHatever, the clutch in my Griso is very nice, albeit noisy, but that's par for the course.

 

Any significant price difference between the Factory and Surflex plates Greg? I wouldn't think so????

 

Pete

[Greg Field]

I don't know about the price difference, because MI no longer carries the Surflex plates, except for those for single-plate clutches. We had too many problems with them. There can also be problems with the factory plates, such as rivets loosening, but we found that this was less common than the problems with the Surflex plates. Others may have experience that differs with ours, of course. I think the best plates are the current 0508 plates as in your Griso. The 2908 plates are almost as good but are a little cheaper.

[pete roper]

I don't know about the price difference, because MI no longer carries the Surflex plates, except for those for single-plate clutches. We had too many problems with them. There can also be problems with the factory plates, such as rivets loosening, but we found that this was less common than the problems with the Surflex plates. Others may have experience that differs with ours, of course. I think the best plates are the current 0508 plates as in your Griso. The 2908 plates are almost as good but are a little cheaper.

 

More experience here than I've got. Listen to Greg. Go for the Griso/Breva plates. How much saving is worth pulling the donk again????

 

Pete

[BrianG]

How much saving is worth pulling the donk again????

 

Pete

 

It's immaterial........ I'll order the new plates right away. What is the best source for these, in the USA?

I doubt I can get them any easier in Canada.

 

Shall I replace the springs while I'm at it??

[Greg Field]

Dave R. and many others would tell you to give the springs the flotation test. I routinely re-use them. I have never come to grief for having done so, but that doesn't mean you won't.

 

You can get the plates from a number of suppliers, including MPH, MG Cycle, Harpers, or my employer, Moto Intl.

[pete roper]

Clutch springs? Apart from bikes that have been ridden thousands of miles by MORONS with slipping clutches I've never replaced them on Tonti's. It may well be a sensible precaution on something a bit more *powerfull* like a V11 and as they are cheap as chips? Why not? but even our race bike generally gets the "Oh this one looks a bit sad! Lets dig through the box of munters and see if we can find a better one!" treatment, and it only has 8 springs and produces in the mid 80's HP and buckets of torque!

 

Pete

[BrianG]

If the front one is installed with the raised bit facing forward it will rub on the centre of the pressure plate and prevent the friction material touching the furface or clamping properly.

 

I can't see for sure but are there witness marks on the centre of the pressure plate and the edge of the splined centre that corresponded with it? To me it appears there might be.

 

Pete

 

 

Great catch Pete!

 

I looked closely at the 2 friction plates splined hubs and the pressure plate and, in fact there is definite witness marking. This would have been immediately evident in the preceeding pictures had I not inverted the friction plate that was not rubbing.

 

Looks like the field-Luigi was unfamiliar with proper assembly process.

 

Speaking of which... is there any OEM indicator for location of the ring's gear clock-position on the fly-wheel?

I did mark it on disassembly but after this I'm not so trusting........

I found a stamped "D" by one drain hole on the flywheel, but no corresponding mark on the ring gear....

 

 

 

 

I think I'll be ordering the new Griso/Breva friction plates together with some sundry fasteners and back it goes.

 

Any thoughts on replacing this clutch with a Roso Mandello type unit?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the by........ gentlemen, PLEASE use some kind of anti-seize compound on the steel fasteners that thread into the aluminum castings!!

Some of my extrications were NOT PRETTY! and I have a great number of allen-head fasteners to replace, here!

[pete roper]

Mate, it's not a matter of a 'Good Catch', it's simply a case of simple experience. Probably for a lot of youse blokes Guzzis are fairly new. Thing is their *technology*, especially on the big twins, hasn't really changed since..... Nixon was President!

 

I dunno how long Greg has been fooling with them but I'd guess that like me its probably closer to thirty years than twenty. this doesn't mean we are 'Oracles' or 'All Knowing' and God save us from being seen as 'Gurus' but it does mean that if there are long known problems of mistaken assembley or chronically recurring problems we will of stumbled across them at one point or another.

 

This doesn't mean we'll always be *right*, or even 1/2 *right* but it's usually a good starting point for diagnosing a problem, especially if we agree Gary Cheek is also a good reference,as are many others who contribute widely on the 'Net'. If you want 'Guzzi Help' Carl Alison's wiring schematics are a godsend and Greg Bender's site is an allegorical horn of plenty of Guzzi knowledge.

 

Periodically I troll around othe *marque* sites just to see what's going on and I find few, or more often, none, that have people who are interested in more than posturing and explaining to the world how they are the best/coolest/fastest/most hip people on the planet! Guzzisti may be an argumentative, disagreeable bunch of bastards but e tend to help each other without much fear or favor when push comes to shove. If people would try to put the cynicism on the back-burner for a while occasionally it would be a fine thing.

 

 

THat will be $50.00 please

 

Pete

[BrianG]

Thanks for the comments, Peter. A knowledge resource such as found here is, indeed, invaluable.

 

So, how about your wisdom on.........

 

1. is there any OEM indicator for location of the ring's gear clock-position on the fly-wheel?

I did mark it on disassembly but after this I'm not so trusting........

I found a stamped "D" by one drain hole on the flywheel, but no corresponding mark on the ring gear....

 

2. Any thoughts on replacing this dual-plate clutch with a Roso Mandello single-plate type unit?

[pete roper]

Ring gears sometimes have a chalk or paint line on them that coresponds with the TDC arrow on the flywheel but I really wouldn't worry about it unduly, lets face it after a couple of months the dust from the plates will of distributed itself unevenly enough to throw out any *perfect* ballance.

 

RM clutch? The single platers will get you a very slight decrease in rotating mass but the wtin plater in the V11's is pretty light. I wouldn't bother as I think the *gains* would be negligible and I think a bit of flywheel 'Heft' is a good thing.

 

Pete