Motorcyclist Dies after running into driveway chain

[dlaing]

I moved to my house three years.

The house is on a nice quiet suburban street that overlooks the back of an elementary school yard. The road turns 90 degrees when it hits the school yard, but if you were to go straight, you would run up a driveway alongside the school yard. But you cannot go straight because 99% of the time a chain blocks the driveway.

What has crossed my mind is how unsafe this chain is.

It had no reflectors or flags, just rusty raw steel.

I said to myself that looks dangerous and maybe some kid on a bicycle will run into it.

But I never took action.

I should have gone to the school and complained.

On late Superbowl Sunday morning, while I was cruising in the canyons on my Guzzi, a neighbor from around the corner named Tim Allen tried to ride straight down my road and up the driveway. But the chain stopped him dead.

I imagine his family will try to sue the school, but I feel everyone who saw the chain and did nothing bears some of the responsibility. It was an accident waiting to happen

I don't expect everyone to agree with that. In my mind most of the responsiblity fall on the rider, but I just wanted to post that incase there is a hazard in your neighborhood that you have considered complaining about, or doing something about, but didn't want to be a nuisance over or were just too damn lazy. I know there are some intersections around here without stop signs... <_ will i do something about it don know but maybe should.>

If you are inclined, please just get out there an do it.

If not, I am not surprised. Nobody around here including myself did anything until it was too late. Today there is a brand new yellow chain with reflector hanging on it.

One of my favorite Simpsons episodes was where Homer goes around putting safety signs up everywhere. You can definately go too far, but I know that I sure regret going nowhere and having done nothing.

Here is a link to a news story on Tim Allen's death, RIP brother rider

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/2...743-bn05id.html

A neighbor said this Tim Allen was known for his community service whether it be picking up trash in the neighborhood or raising money for the fourth of July fireworks.

[g.forrest]

IMHO you made the statement that responsibility rests with you. we don't live in a world protected from our mistakes or just plain stupidity and as m/cyclists we are even more responsible for our own actions as we are seperated from those who commonly ''just have a little ding'' if our society has to constantly look at saving it self from litigation its stuffed. it pisses me that many trees have been removed from parks and public places in my area woooh a limb may fall on the picnickers'' we better remove the tree'' or we may be sued! better to ask the question! what did this tim allen do wrong. his life was in his hands and not the schools. thats my 2 cents.

I moved to my house three years.

The house is on a nice quiet suburban street that overlooks the back of an elementary school yard. The road turns 90 degrees when it hits the school yard, but if you were to go straight, you would run up a driveway alongside the school yard. But you cannot go straight because 99% of the time a chain blocks the driveway.

What has crossed my mind is how unsafe this chain is.

It had no reflectors or flags, just rusty raw steel.

I said to myself that looks dangerous and maybe some kid on a bicycle will run into it.

But I never took action.

I should have gone to the school and complained.

On late Superbowl Sunday morning, while I was cruising in the canyons on my Guzzi, a neighbor from around the corner named Tim Allen tried to ride straight down my road and up the driveway. But the chain stopped him dead.

I imagine his family will try to sue the school, but I feel everyone who saw the chain and did nothing bears some of the responsibility. It was an accident waiting to happen

I don't expect everyone to agree with that. In my mind most of the responsiblity fall on the rider, but I just wanted to post that incase there is a hazard in your neighborhood that you have considered complaining about, or doing something about, but didn't want to be a nuisance over or were just too damn lazy. I know there are some intersections around here without stop signs... <_ will i do something about it don know but maybe should.>

If you are inclined, please just get out there an do it.

If not, I am not surprised. Nobody around here including myself did anything until it was too late. Today there is a brand new yellow chain with reflector hanging on it.

One of my favorite Simpsons episodes was where Homer goes around putting safety signs up everywhere. You can definately go too far, but I know that I sure regret going nowhere and having done nothing.

Here is a link to a news story on Tim Allen's death, RIP brother rider

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/2...743-bn05id.html

A neighbor said this Tim Allen was known for his community service whether it be picking up trash in the neighborhood or raising money for the fourth of July fireworks.

[antonio carroccio]

This is a case for Bill Hagan.

Responsible will be the city, because the city boards are not clear enough for the traffic and responsible will be the school self because the chain (maybe) use to be property of the school.

To add at the use or abuse of the chain, the school must have a written permission from the city to use this chain on that street at that time for some days in a week.

That will not give the school the freedom to use a chain that is not conform the international traffics boards.

Well, maybe Martin Barret knows also something about this subject.

[Guest Nogbad]

It's a great shame, but shit happens.

 

I hope we are not going to go the route of the compensation culture and the blame game here on this board.

 

His path was obstructed by a chain, he failed to see it. It's a tragic accident. Period. The grim reaper is waiting someplace, somewhen for you and me too.

[Alex-Corsa]

It is really sad to hear such news . Especially from as stupid & careless cause as that.

At least we can all learn something about it, and be carefull as much as possible on the street as bikers.

Fortunatelly since your conutry is organized, hopefully some will have to be held respncible (in their part) and justice to be given. Well of cource this cannot reverce the situation but probablly can teach a lesson to some (short or big) and that could be a small ticket on saving others lives another time.

Well you don't have to hold yourself responcible but at least you could also learn something of it.You remember abouth the 3 categories of people I told you. I see you have predicted it , you could only take an action by your own, i.e. tell them to replace chain , or cut it off by yourself one silent night.

[dlaing]

Thanks for the comments, I hope they don't sue, but we do live in a culture of blame.

I love the internet stories of injured burglars suing the owners of homes they burgled.

Our society has gone way overboard.

Even in Australia the Burglars sue for damages

November 21 -- Burglar sues for compensation. In Australia, "[a] man who broke into a house and attacked the home owner when he was discovered has launched a civil action against his victim for compensation." Shane Colburn says he is still suffering "physically and emotionally" from the aftermath of the 1997 incident, in which he scuffled with Peter Vucetic and Giavanna Grah and was attacked by the couple's dogs. ("The thief who sued his victim", Daily Telegraph (NSW, Australia), Nov. 17).

for that and more stories, http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/00nov3.html#001121b

In California we are so spoiled by all the left turn lights that we don't know how to turn left at a light without a green arrow. Still, with few exceptions, I don't think intersections without stop or yield signs are a good idea in my neighborhood of idiot drivers.

[Bill Hagan]

This is a case for Bill Hagan.

Responsible will be the city, because the city boards are not clear enough for the traffic and responsible will be the school self because the chain (maybe) use to be property of the school.

To add at the use or abuse of the chain, the school must have a written permission from the city to use this chain on that street at that time for some days in a week.

That will not give the school the freedom to use a chain that is not conform the international traffics boards.

Well, maybe Martin Barret knows also something about this subject.

 

Hmmmm. You flatter me, Antonio, but tort liability is not my area of legal expertise [a lifetime journey it's been, too, trying to figure out what is ... no, actually, it's Renaissance military law ... a boutique niche ... but I digress ... no matter ... I bill by the hour ]

 

Seriously, a sad story (and mysterious from my perspective ... HOW did that cause death?). In the U.S., such issues are matters for the states--here, California--not the federal government, and certainly not international anything, except to the extent the state may have adopted, as a matter of convenience, some world standard on something.

 

Moreover, it is a different thing, too, when the "villain" is the government, not a private party. In that former instance, as here, the doctrine of sovereign immunity ordinarily bars a claim unless--as is usually the case--the government has waived the doctrine with a claims process.

 

Have no clue about how California law treats such things, but, in the absence of the school having maintained some known dangerous condition (and, dlaing's understandable-under-the-circumstances-but-still-IMHO-misplaced guilt notwithstanding, this barrier chain probably doesn't meet that test), doubt if there is liability here. But, I'd be interested in how this all turns out.

 

One last--almost Guzzi-related--tale.

 

So there I was, living in Italy some years ago. Decided to visit Soave. After a wine-tasting, toured the small town. Interesting castle. Just did a Google image search and found this: http://www.murielanderson.com/newPhotos2/FromtopofSoaveC.jpg

 

Anyway, I was astonished at the lack of barriers to keep folks from falling. Then, I realized it's all about balance ... and I don't mean not falling! No, the balance between a cradle-to-grave protective approach and anarchy. Not sure the Italians had that right, but somewhere between that and short of signage that blocks all views and barriers everywhere lies that elusive happy point.

 

Regards from Inman Park,

 

Bill

 

P.S. The Norge is too good to be true. A wonderful motorcycle.

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .I was astonished at the lack of barriers to keep folks from falling. Then, I realized it's all about balance ... and I don't mean not falling! No, the balance between a cradle-to-grave protective approach and anarchy. Not sure the Italians had that right, but somewhere between that and short of signage that blocks all views and barriers everywhere lies that elusive happy point.

 

Regards from Inman Park,

 

Bill

Point well made and well taken, Bill.

 

I heard about this incident within hours on local radio. Truly a tragedy. My condolences to his family.

 

Coupla thoughts.

 

I was raised in a Northern state (with two defense lawyers in the family, so Counselors please take no offense!) where during my teens, I'd become well aware of rapidly burgeoning tort litigation around a similar set of circumstances. In Michigan, by that time it had become fairly common practice for knuckleheads of every stripe to celebrate heavy winter snowfall by "outsmarting" the police patrolling the roads. The geniuses would hop on their fire-breathing hot-rodded snowmobiles and blast off cross-country to meet their Pals at the local rural watering hole, with the expectation that they could get as shnockered as they wanted with impunity, since they could avoid public roads entirely on the way home -- and wot a blast to let 'er rip wide open over hill n' dale by moonlight or headlight, whichever . . . .

 

Awareness of "a problem" first arose when the popularity of this behavior resulted in hospital emergency rooms seemingly filling up with "necktie" throttling injuries when these guys hit barbed-wire and all other kinds of fences at 60-80 mph at night -- every weekend. The fools were decapitating themselves by the dozens, leaving their headless remains frozen to the ground like carcasses that fell out of a meat wagon.

 

Within a few years of the first time I became aware of this, I next became aware of the number of lawsuits resulting in loss of property over "negligent" behavior of owners of acreage without "adequate" reflective warning signs every umpty-odd feet on all their fences, many of which would of course extend for miles! Hundreds of landowners lost their properties for the "offense" of having found a ripped-out fence and a dead drunk (literally) trespassing on their property without permission!

 

The escalating societal mentality of "blame someone else" other than the person responsible for all manner of harm that they may bring upon themselves is the worst and most insidious form of poison. It teaches people to react in knee-jerk fashion to excuse every kind of irresponsible behavior, particularly the self-limiting kind. Unfortunately, we're well down the slippery slope in many nations, including my own. It has given rise to a government and legal system here and elsewhere that LOVES to cater to this mentality in every manner possible, thereby perpetuating itself and expanding its budgets -- why, it's wot government institutions do best!

 

In rolling snowball fashion, the "blame everyone else" mentality expands, resulting in even more death and injury as it gathers momentum.

 

The day it becomes someone else's responsibility for every idiot who falls into an open manhole is the day that the tyranny of the cradle-to-grave Nanny State has arrived, my friends.

 

That's all. Rant mode off.

[badmotogoozer]

HEY! I used to be one o' them wild sledders. Raced a couple seasons too.

 

I have a similar tale re barbed wire. We used to ride the local river (as did MANY) not drunk (ok, sometimes...) regularly. There was one spot at the rapids (never really froze) where one had to go on the river bank, between two trees and back onto the river. Problem arose when the person who owned the land didn't want people coming 10 ft onto his land (cow pasture fer cryin out loud) so instead of putting up a sign or visible blockade, he strings up barbed wire.

 

You know what happened. No charges pressed as here you can do whatever you want on your land.

 

Sure, the guy was legally in the right. But did he really have to kill someone to make his point.

 

Rj

[g.forrest]

it is the common practice here to erect tensioned cable barrier to arrest vehicles from straying into oncoming traffic, so is often found down the centre of four and six lane motorways allso used in areas where a dropoff exists at outer edge of roads. these cable barriers consist of several tensioned 19mm steel cables held seperated at around 250mm centres by thin folded metal posts designed to bend if impacted, these posts are usualy around 3 metres apart. now they say this system works and is much cheaper than the old armco steel barrier. now i've seen sections tens of metres long flattened by large trucks so it seems it doesn't work for the hight and weight of large trucks [cable barriers generaly around 750-900mm high] but it does work for your average[ car wherin lies your average idiot ] now in all the years they've been there i've not heard of one motorcycle experience of impacting with one. ''the motorcycle fraternity call them shredders'' now the point i'm making is these barriers are not painted at all let alone yellow or orange or adorned with reflectors. i'm guesing this system exists in other countries and was hoping to hear of others views. ciao

[dlaing]

I have a similar tale re barbed wire.

When I was a teen we used to ride through the woods. Some of it was marked trespassing and some wasn't.

The neighboring homes did not like the sound of motorcycles, and would often cut down trees as barriers to the trails, but once in a while they would put up fish line.

A riding buddy of mine lost most of his teeth

I don't remember if that property was marked no tresspassing, but I was and would be all in favor of suing the bastard that did that.

My recollection was that the suspicion fell on the haters of noisy motorcycles and not the owner of the land which was probably just a corporation of developers.

To me the malicious intent of the fish line differs greatly from the common place stupidity of putting up a chain that was not very visible, which is also very different than a commonplace and not so stupid, barbed wire fence.

A single strand of barb wire strung at neck height across a path should fetch a prison sentence, IMHO.

[Martin Barrett]

Tragic accident.

 

Responding to points at random:

 

Forrest's central reserves wire barriers. We have them over here as well. Supposedly work better at preventing a cross over (vehicle ends up in oncoming lane ) Work best for cars.

 

The Steve McQueen great escape wire across a track/path even if private property would be dealt with criminally due to the intent to injure.

 

Moving on to the accident- In the UK with European Human Rights coupled with Health and Safety Legislation.

The EHR would only come in to play if it was a state school and not a private school. The H&S puts a duty of care.

The highways division could be deemed at fault if hadn't signed post the bend, esp if there had been previous injury accidents

be looking for one of these

not one of these the junction implies a road which obviously wouldn't be obstructed

Other signage that would be present (but without the patrol board) and possibly

The problem is each additional sign tends to be a memorial to some one killed or seriously injured

 

The School held accountable for a low visibility barrier. What seems to be the norm here is a single bar barrier or gate and that would have a reflective triangle in its middle, same goes for a chain.

 

Principally the rider has apparently not realised that the road deviated and was headed for a driveway and not a continuation of the road. There are times I've made this or similar mistake (with smaller roads around the lanes particularly) and ended up braking hard to make the turn or stop in the mouth of the minor road or have to turn around having gone sailing through

The factors that might have effected his view include low sun, denies some of the detail. I hate to think alcohol (is this morning after Superbowl?) But invariably will put it down as too fast for the road conditions (actual - not as he had read them)

 

 

Dave, don't beat yourself up. But well posted, on the message that it could be worth speaking out, and risk being seen as an interfering busy body, it is as Ratchet says a balance (different field though)

[DeBenGuzzi]

it is the common practice here to erect tensioned cable barrier to arrest vehicles from straying into oncoming traffic, so is often found down the centre of four and six lane motorways allso used in areas where a dropoff exists at outer edge of roads. these cable barriers consist of several tensioned 19mm steel cables held seperated at around 250mm centres by thin folded metal posts designed to bend if impacted, these posts are usualy around 3 metres apart. now they say this system works and is much cheaper than the old armco steel barrier. now i've seen sections tens of metres long flattened by large trucks so it seems it doesn't work for the hight and weight of large trucks [cable barriers generaly around 750-900mm high] but it does work for your average[ car wherin lies your average idiot ] now in all the years they've been there i've not heard of one motorcycle experience of impacting with one. ''the motorcycle fraternity call them shredders'' now the point i'm making is these barriers are not painted at all let alone yellow or orange or adorned with reflectors. i'm guesing this system exists in other countries and was hoping to hear of others views. ciao

We have 'shredders' here, just installed. I think they only have a single cable with spacers though. Works well for cars, I'm sure it would just kill any biker sent into them and trucks with any kind of load would tear right through'em

[antonio carroccio]

Pity to not hear the further development of this case. I would like to hear the family of this motorcyclist.

Mostly somebody like this motorcyclist does have a lot of person who take care of him. Like the mother or the father.

It gets my mad the negligence of this fact.

Damn, I would speak to the school first and after them the city.

A human life it token and we hear nothing further…

 

There is always a little but…..

How hard was the motorcyclist riding at the moment of the impact?

[dlaing]

Pity to not hear the further development of this case. I would like to hear the family of this motorcyclist.

Mostly somebody like this motorcyclist does have a lot of person who take care of him. Like the mother or the father.

It gets my mad the negligence of this fact.

Damn, I would speak to the school first and after them the city.

A human life it token and we hear nothing further…

 

There is always a little but…..

How hard was the motorcyclist riding at the moment of the impact?

I'll be keeping my eyes out for an obituary.

The number of flowers left at the scene is heart warming.

If there were no chain there, because of the dip, you would be pushing it very fast at 30MPH.

My guess is he was probably doing about 20MPH, but it easily could of been 10-30MPH.

I suppose he had probably driven up the driveway before.

I think they only started chaining it about 2-3 years ago.

I rode my motorcycle up the drive when there was no chain.

The drive was inviting to a motorcycle.

It was good they put the chain up to prevent mischievous teens from having parked car orgies. I just regret not having done something about it, because it crossed my mind many times. I won't beat myself up over it, because I know the same thoughts must of crossed many other people's minds. It is just kind of like in retrospect you should not have had all that candy when you are getting fitted for dentures. I know better and yet I still do the wrong thing. It is a simple case of coulda, woulda, shoulda, and now somebody is dead, that is all. And maybe there is even an argument to be made that I should not have done anything. This will surely have an impact on the many children that cross by that gate. Perhaps the impact of this death will have a butterfly effect towards a better destiny