Missfire?

[Guest SDKFZ111]

V11 naked. Fuel pump in tank. Bikes performance going down hill over the last six months. Service carried out ( new plugs, oil, valve clerance etc) no change. Fuel drained off via removed fuel pump assembly, fuel looked ok. Close examination of fuel pump. Bingo! Hole in fuel filter where block connector on top of pump had been in contact with fuel filter and worn a hole through it. Low fuel pressure and weak mixture? Hope the new filter cures the problem, other wise the bike will be joining Nogbads. Up for sale!

[Guest ratchethack]

Hope the new filter cures the problem, other wise the bike will be joining Nogbads. Up for sale!

Hm. My sympathies, SDKFZ111.

 

It must be extremely frustrating for you to've come to this conclusion!

 

This kinda thing always intrigues me. I'm sincerely interested, and I've got a few questions.

 

With y'er kind indulgence, please allow Hercule Hatchracket, Investigator, to peel back the onion a few layers?

 

Hypothetically, let's say the problem persists after changing the filter.

 

Without a professional analysis by a trusted shop, or as much as consulting a Forum such as this one for its wealth of experience and its extensive reach into the owner community with its formidable diagnostic expertise, you'd make a decision to sell a motorcycle with an undiagnosed problem -- knowing that whatever the cause may be, that it's evidently rare enough that a large community of owners such as this one may (or may not) even have experienced it before -- and you'd sell the Guzzi without knowing this?

 

The symptoms as described appear somewhat odd, without having more information than "missfire" and "going downhill for 6 months" and the information about the hole, which would seem a likely enough culprit. But if you were seeking advice, I reckon you'd have asked for it. It would appear that not only is guidance not sought, but that a foregone conclusion has previously made its arrival, and therefore, contrary to y'er post, there seems to be no dependence wotsoever upon the failure of a filter change to solve the problem as a reason to sell!

 

Wot's the purpose of y'er post, then, if not to seek guidance?

 

Considering the symptoms, how bad (expensive) d'you think it could be to fix -- worst case?

 

Are there any other things about the bike that you don't like, or otherwise can't deal with?

 

Wot kinda loss d'you figure you'll take on it, selling it "as is" -- running ragged or not running at all?

 

Would you sell a car because it developed a missfire?

 

Would you conclude that Guzzi/car mfgr. is at fault and never consider another product from same?

 

Enquiring minds just gotta know.

[Guest SDKFZ111]

Hm. My sympathies to you SDKFZ111.

 

This must be extremely frustrating for you to've come to this conclusion!

 

This kinda thing always intrigues me. I'm sincerely interested.

 

Hypothetically, let's say the problem persists after changing the filter.

 

Without a professional analysis by a trusted shop, or as much as consulting a Forum such as this one for its wealth of experience, and its extensive reach into the owner community with its formidable diagnostic expertise, you'd make a decision to sell a motorcycle with an undiagnosed problem -- knowing that whatever the cause may be, that it's evidently rare enough that a large community of owners such as this one may (or may not) even have experienced it before -- and you'd do it without knowing this?

 

Considering the symptoms, how bad (expensive) d'you think it could be -- worst case?

 

Are there any other things about the bike that you don't like, or otherwise can't deal with?

 

Wot kinda loss d'you figure you'll take on it, selling it "as is" -- running ragged or not running at all?

 

Would you do the same thing with an expensive car under the same circumstances? A cheap car?

 

Would you conclude that Guzzi/car mfgr. is at fault and never consider another product from same?

 

Enquiring minds just gotta know.

1.I feel that a new filter will cure the problem and so does my MotoGuzzi mechanic (I will let you know after I pick up the new filter Friday).2. £ 30 to fix as of above. 3.This is my secound V11,the first one I bought was after a 20 year break from motorcycling and I enjoyed it very much, enough to buy another one, but I feel I have moved on a bit since then and now I have the --W K1200R I nearly allways choose this bike to ride as it does everything better for me (that's not to say it's a better machine though). 4.Things I do not like about the bike-it vibrates a lot,its not very comfortable its a bit of a handfull handling wise and I'm worried about the rear shock collapsing on me while I'm out riding! 5. I'm in a position at the moment where I do not have to sell it running ragged or not. 6.Do'nt like cars expensive or other wise so not likely to be an issue. 7. I think you would say have to say that in this case that the manufacturer is to blame but then again thats nothing new is it? Things I do like about it, that noise it makes as you wind it up to near the red zone and its different from most UJ motorcycles. Best wishes Mr enquiring mind froma dark,dark night in Blighty,only another 8 hours to go on the night shift!

[Guest ratchethack]

Ah then! Thanks kindly for the rapid reply.

 

Far be it from me to offer unsolicited advice!

 

I offer instead my agreement with y'er foregone, yet still unstated conclusion:

 

You WILL be selling the Guzzi post-haste, running or not.

 

Purpose of original post, unknown.

 

- Hercule Hatchracket, Darker Knight (than a dark night in Blighty), Dark Knight of Private Investigation

[dlaing]

Hercule Hatchracket, Darker Knight (than a dark night in Blighty), Dark Knight of Private Investigation

More like Hatchules Unratcheted!!!

But I have to admit I kinda agree with your assesment, and I suspect that SDKFZ's mechanic has not diagnosed it correctly. But the I hope the mechanic got it right and SDKFZ keeps the bike and proves us mistaken!!!

We shall see...

[Guest ratchethack]

More like Hatchules Unratcheted!!!

Not Hercules, Dave.

 

Hercule!

 

As in Hercule Poirot, the famous intrepid Agatha Christie International Supersleuth Private Inspector of London, of course.

 

Who said:

 

"You have the mistaken idea implanted in your head that a detective is necessarily a man who puts on a false beard and hides behind a pillar! The false beard, it is vieux jeu, and shadowing is only done by the lowest branch of my profession. The Hercule Poirots, my friend, need only to sit back in a chair and think."

 

See profile, quotes, etc. here:

 

http://www.poirot.us/pprofile.html

 

A quick solution to a puzzling murder mystery is standard operating procdure for Poirot -- and so is his facile sense of humor. He may be vain and egocentric, but he's also extremely observant -- and one of the things he has observed over many, many years is the fact that he's the world's greatest detective. You have to expect a little egotism in one who knows he has no peer,

n'est-ce pas?

[raz]

Not Hercules, Dave.

 

Hercule! As in Hercule Poirot, the famous and intrepid Agatha Christie Supersleuth Private Inspector.

 

See profile, quotes, etc. here:

 

http://www.poirot.us/pprofile.html

 

 

That site hosts some pretty good new avatars for you, Ratch. Not that I don't love your present one!

[Guest SDKFZ111]

Ah then! Thanks kindly for the rapid reply.

 

Far be it from me to offer unsolicited advice!

 

I offer instead my agreement with y'er foregone, yet still unstated conclusion:

 

You WILL be selling the Guzzi post-haste, running or not.

 

Purpose of original post, unknown.

 

- Hercule Hatchracket, Darker Knight (than a dark night in Blighty), Dark Knight of Private Investigation

Purpose of original post. To inform others of a possible problem that might occur (however remote). The bike is very hard to start of late and seems to be down on power with attendent poping and banging in the airbox and needs lots of revs to make any real forward progress. Perhaps I should have posted ' My bike has been running very poorly of late,during the course of my investigation as to the cause of the problem I have found a hole in the fuel filter, what effect if any do you think this would have on the running of the engine?' I welcome your opinons on this matter.

[dlaing]

Purpose of original post. To inform others of a possible problem that might occur (however remote). The bike is very hard to start of late and seems to be down on power with attendent poping and banging in the airbox and needs lots of revs to make any real forward progress. Perhaps I should have posted ' My bike has been running very poorly of late,during the course of my investigation as to the cause of the problem I have found a hole in the fuel filter, what effect if any do you think this would have on the running of the engine?' I welcome your opinons on this matter.

[/quote

IMHO the hole would have to be pretty huge, like ten miles per gallon, and gasoline all over your legs, huge, in order for it to have an impact on the running.EDIT I MISSED THE PART ABOUT THE FUEL FILTER BEING IN THE TANK, SO MY DIAGNOSIS WASS WRONG

Of course I could be wrong, but I believe the pump and regulator will keep the pressure sufficient enough.

In order for the hole to bleed off enough pressure you would have to be dumping alot of fuel.

One related possibility is that the filter clogged and ruptured enough to leak.

The leak not causing the problem, but the clog could be causing the problem.

Of course I am no Hercule or Hercules. Perhaps more of a Clouseau...

...than a Poirot

[Guest ratchethack]

. . . what effect if any do you think this would have on the running of the engine?' I welcome your opinons on this matter.

Please forgive the crustier-than-usual tone of my prior posts, SDKFZ111. I hate to see anyone make a rash decision to sell their Guzzi in a fit of frustration over a relatively minor thing. As you've said, you have other reasons for a potential sale, and who am I or anyone else to question them?! FWIW, I think y'er on the right track WRT hole in the filter theory. Not having the same setup, I have to imagine that leakage through the hole you described in the filter would be entirely contained within the tank? Seems logical to me that enough of a pressure loss could very well keep the fuel pump and regulator on full-time and unable to reach full operating pressure. IMHO the symptoms you've described would be entirely consistent with this scenario.

 

Hope your new filter nails it. Let us know.

 

Maybe you'll decide to keep her after all?

[Dan M]

Purpose of original post. To inform others of a possible problem that might occur (however remote). The bike is very hard to start of late and seems to be down on power with attendent poping and banging in the airbox and needs lots of revs to make any real forward progress. Perhaps I should have posted ' My bike has been running very poorly of late,during the course of my investigation as to the cause of the problem I have found a hole in the fuel filter, what effect if any do you think this would have on the running of the engine?' I welcome your opinons on this matter.

 

 

Low fuel pressure will cause the symptoms you describe, hard start, power loss, lean backfire on throttle opening in air box. I doubt you would get a misfire though. Please let us know the outcome.

[motoguzznix]

As in Hercule Poirot, the famous intrepid Agatha Christie International Supersleuth Private Inspector of London, of course.

Hercule Poirot was always very keen to be a begian people, as most people supposed him to be from france.