OT Honda Engineering

[mznyc]

Hi ratchethack,

I wasn't making any comment about Max,In fact I believe and agree with everything he says about this problem.I also stated that this under engineered suspension is unacceptable.But from my experience with Honda,they will not let this go uncorrected for very long.They make far and few mistakes and when they do, they usually correct them pretty quick.I wish I could say the same about Guzzi.I just didn't see how Lex could use this as an opportunity to bash Honda.He starts out by saying,for those who think Hondas engineering is brilliant.This problem is not proof that their designs are second to anyone ,overall,they are the best engineered bikes on the road today and have been for a long time.

They also readily admit when they have a problem and will perform a recall at no expense to the owner to fix the problem.A serious safety issue is an even more rare occasion and i assure you is something they do not tolerate.I don't believe this falls under that category,a Gold Wing rider wouldn't and shouldn't be pushing his bike that hard to get him to get himself in trouble because of the suspension,but more towards correcting for the next model upgrade.It's also an easy and relatively inexpensive fix for the owner.Guzzi hasn't even admitted to a problem with the Scura clutch,a potentialy lethal screwup.Forget about making it right,replacing at no cost to us,the loyal owners.

 

Hey Anna Nicole Smith was a unique beauty RIP,..but ultimately would she have been worth the trouble?My Guzzi is making me think....

Michael

[Lex]

Hi ratchethack,

I wasn't making any comment about Max,In fact I believe and agree with everything he says about this problem.I also stated that this under engineered suspension is unacceptable.But from my experience with Honda,they will not let this go uncorrected for very long.They make far and few mistakes and when they do, they usually correct them pretty quick.I wish I could say the same about Guzzi.I just didn't see how Lex could use this as an opportunity to bash Honda.He starts out by saying,for those who think Hondas engineering is brilliant.This problem is not proof that their designs are second to anyone ,overall,they are the best engineered bikes on the road today and have been for a long time.

They also readily admit when they have a problem and will perform a recall at no expense to the owner to fix the problem.A serious safety issue is an even more rare occasion and i assure you is something they do not tolerate.I don't believe this falls under that category,a Gold Wing rider wouldn't and shouldn't be pushing his bike that hard to get him to get himself in trouble because of the suspension,but more towards correcting for the next model upgrade.It's also an easy and relatively inexpensive fix for the owner.Guzzi hasn't even admitted to a problem with the Scura clutch,a potentialy lethal screwup.Forget about making it right,replacing at no cost to us,the loyal owners.

 

Hey Anna Nicole Smith was a unique beauty RIP,..but ultimately would she have been worth the trouble?My Guzzi is making me think....

Michael

 

First, my reason for posting the item was not to say Hondas are garbage. The real reason I posted it was simply that I thought it was interesting. I think most people would say Honda is the top engineering company in motorcycling. Nobody would be surprised to see a Gilera with a weak fork, a Honda mistake this big is interesting.

 

You are entitled to your opinion about Honda always supporting their customers but Honda has had seven model years to fix this, so far nothing. They may have been too busy fixing the other problems with the 1800, this bike has been far from problem free. If you think Honda always fixes problems you might want to ask a VFR750/ 800 owner how Honda fixed their voltage regulator. My long time VFR riding buddies' "warranty fix" was to buy the part out of his own pocket. The second or third time he got a new part, same part number, completely different part. Specifically, a much bigger heat sink. Honda has never acknowledged the problem, they just fixed the regulator on the QT.

 

I'm not anti-Honda, I don't think it is an exaggeration to say Honda invented the modern motorcycle. If you are dumb enough to buy a Guzzi or a Ducati you expect a few bugs, fixing them if part of the fun. When you buy a Honda that can run over $20,000 you'd think the bike would be pretty well sorted out, especially if it has been in production for this many years. The good news is that Honda doesn't make many mistakes, the bad news is they made a big one here and they will not do anything about it.

 

Lex

[mznyc]

Hi Lex,

Glad to see your not anti-Honda.As Guzzi could learn a thing or two about QC from them.I was also a victim of the VFR regulator.But at 70K on the bike at failure,and about $70.00 to replace I wasn't about to complain,and certainly not enough for me to slag them.Rode that bike for years in the rain,below freezing,110 degree heat and never thought twice about doing a 2-3 k ride with the fear of breaking down.That was the only part to ever fail on all my Hondas other than normal wear and tear.The GL Ive heard about a couple of minor problems,along with the ST1300,and VTEC VFR.But as far as I know most or all have been resolved.The long term reviews have also been excellent on them.The GL forks are the first Ive heard of a poorly engineered component,not a failing one.

Hey my Scura listed for 14K in 2002 ,with no frills and several problems,for a loaded tourer at $19,299 in 07 $, the GL looks like a good deal.Add $200.00 in aftermarket springs ,an option that makes sense for most bikes direct from the factory,and you should be good to go.

I went X-country on the ST a few years ago,of course without any problems in 10K,and a few times wished for a rolling couch in the flat states.I did a little research and it seemed that the K1200LT had an edge over the GL,so I don't don't have blind faith for Honda ,just good luck I guess.

My dream bike would have Guzzi design a V11/MGS sex machine,and let Japanese engineers build it.

[Steve G.]

Not to defend Honda on this one, but one should really go out and ride one of these things for a laugh. As a 900ib thing, it does ok, even in the corners. It certainly give one enough confidence to fold over the floor boards ar 45 deg, throwing massive sparks. When you match it up against the competitors, it's not quite as sure footed as the big BMW LT, but against the Harley tourer, it is light years ahead in road manners. And the engine, well it's a baby Porsche, the sound and feel are glorious if you are any kind of gearhead as I am. Now I wouldn't own one of these or any other mega tourer, not my thing.

That said, Honda has had serious teething problems with this 1800. While the engine/gearbox/transaxle are a rock, the aluminium frame has been a serious problem, with initial models cracking at the headstock, and massive world recalls as a result.

BTW, the Goldwing has been built exclusively in the USA for over 20yrs now, in fact it took over the original CBX factory, which moved production from Japan in 1980. I think it's in Marysville, Ohio.

Ciao, Steve

[dlaing]

Well done Ratchet! You've somehow extrapolated yet another massive conspiracy theory from someone pointing out that Goldwangs are undersprung (just like our Goosies).

 

Who else is out to get us??? Please, enquiring minds NEED to KNOW!

 

You've got Dave pegged for the purple planet, but for the life o' me, I can't figure out which one you're on. Keep it coming!

 

Rj

Listen here clown!

I am much more grounded, here on Earth, than either of you.

Ryan can't build a logical argument to save an innocent nun with a Sunday school alibi from the electric chair.

Why don't you try standing up to Ratchet with reason, you nimwitted trolling krusty old drunken clown!!!

It ain't that difficult until to argue against his BS, until he starts rambling about Remulac so much that you actually believe the crap.

A weak mind is what you have if you buy his wholesale garbage at full retail prices.

[dlaing]

 

BTW, the Goldwing has been built exclusively in the USA for over 20yrs now, in fact it took over the original CBX factory, which moved production from Japan in 1980. I think it's in Marysville, Ohio.

Ciao, Steve

Is that how long they have been undersprung?

Just kidding.

Undersprung is an easy fix, and most bikes need the same attention.

Even Pete and Ratchet know that.

It is just pretty shocking to see them get it that wrong.

I have seen some GoldWing riders actually move those things pretty quickly through the twisties. My guess is they were not on stock springs.

 

 

Guzzi hasn't even admitted to a problem with the Scura clutch,a potentialy lethal screwup.Forget about making it right,replacing at no cost to us,the loyal owners.

Has there been even one report of a clutch from a Scura sold in the North America blowing up?

[badmotogoozer]

 

Why don't you try standing up to Ratchet with reason, you nimwitted trolling krusty old drunken clown!!!

 

Because that would be absolutely no fun at all.

 

And DAMMIT - I'm not old! At least not by forum standards...

 

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours you start to realize that he likes it.

 

Rj

[Martin Barrett]

Honda Goldwings - I was impressed by this video some time ago - they can move

 

http://media.putfile.com/Riding-the-Dragon-Part-Two

 

But whilst searching for the link I came across this one

 

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...wings+deals+gap

 

It made me cringe with the possibilities - really should have an escort out front.

 

And moving on to Honda reliability I have

 

 

in my garage, only 8,000 miles so hopefully the cams are save able with improved oil feed

[pete roper]

 

 

in my garage, only 8,000 miles so hopefully the cams are save able with improved oil feed

 

Martin, it's a fair while since I had anything to do with these, (15 years +!) but from memory the 'S' models didn't suffer nearly as badly from the 'Chocolate Cams' syndrome as the 'F's. Heaven alone knows why Perhaps they had a different profile? Perhaps they were made out of something slightly harder than baby-sh!t? No idea.

 

Any which way they make a perfectly acceptable 'Beater'. Probably the worst problems will be finding a shock to fit it and un-seizing the brakes every couple of days

 

Pete

[Tom M]

Honda Goldwings - I was impressed by this video some time ago - they can move

 

http://media.putfile.com/Riding-the-Dragon-Part-Two

 

But whilst searching for the link I came across this one

 

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...wings+deals+gap

 

It made me cringe with the possibilities - really should have an escort out front.

 

And moving on to Honda reliability I have

 

 

in my garage, only 8,000 miles so hopefully the cams are save able with improved oil feed

 

I had the big brother to that bike, an '84 V65 Sabre (VF1100s), which were also known for cam problems. I bought it from the original owner who said he changed the oil regularly (dino). When I did the valve adjustment I saw that the cams were in fine condition. Since the bike had 18k miles and the cams were good I decided that there was no need to address the alledged oil starvation issue, especially since I changed over to synthetic oil. I believe there were bad batches of cams that caused most of the problems with those bikes.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is if the cams look fine then just switch to a good quality synthetic oil and you should be OK.

 

Some history on the cam problem here.

 

I wish my Guzzi had self-cancelling turn signals like the old Sabre did. I sure don't miss those brakes though

[dlaing]

Because that would be absolutely no fun at all.

 

And DAMMIT - I'm not old! At least not by forum standards...

 

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours you start to realize that he likes it.

 

Rj

"No fun", tell me about it

Maybe if I put a muzzle on him and wrestled on dry land, then it might be a fair fight.

And dammit you are old, at least by College Co-Ed standards

(although I figured you for about 40, not 35, must be that wisdom you wreak of)

[Guest azccj]

This isn't Guzzi related but if anybody thinks Hondas all have brilient engineering shouldn get a copy of this month's Motorcyle Consumer News. An artical on the Goldwing forks reads like "how not to make a front end" story.

 

A set of forks does three things; the springs suport the bike, the dampers control the springs and the fork needs to conect the riders hands to the front wheel to provide good steering. The Goldwing does all three badly and adds a poorly concived anti-dive system and under designed steering head bearings to the mix. My "German Goldwing" (K1200LT) had poorly set up shocks at both ends but it seems it was a masterpiece compared to the GL1800. Even the Marzzocchis on my Sport sounds pretty good next to this mess.

 

If you can't get a copy of MCN you can check out this vidio on the Traxion Dinamics web site. This is, obviosly, and ad for Traxxion Dynamics but it does a great job of going over the problems. Traxxion Dynamics GL1800 Seminar I warn you this is long, about 50 minutes, but pretty informative.

 

Lex

I have an 03 Honda Goldwing with 53,000+ miles on it that I bought new and it runs as good today as the day I bought it. The front forks on the bike are great and I have no complaints about the suspension or anything else on the bike. It has never let me down, broke, leaked, failed to start and has been the most reliable bike I have ever owned, it‘s gas and go with minimal maintenance. Far superior to the BMW K1200lt I once owned, in power and reliability. The BMW was really a piece of crap and broke all the time, clutch, electrical problems, oil leaks, rattles, rear brakes, it finally burned to the ground nearly killing me from a gas leak . The Goldwing and I have done 2 cross country round trips and one trip all the way to Alaska and back with my 14 year old son in the back seat. I can’t say enough good things about the Goldwing and how well it was put together. And as an added bonus parts are cheap and easy to come by.

 

I love my LeMans but when I need something that can eats miles and is extremely comfortable I hop on the Goldwing. If you’ve never ridden one I suggest try it, you’ll be surprised how fast that big bike can go in the corners.

[Guest Nogbad]

I saw an article on the web somewhere by a Goldwinger that suggested various car tyre options for the rear to get good mileage, bike tyres wearing out a tad too quickly. I guess they don't lean over at that.

[Guest azccj]

I saw an article on the web somewhere by a Goldwinger that suggested various car tyre options for the rear to get good mileage, bike tyres wearing out a tad too quickly. I guess they don't lean over at that.

No, the Goldwing leans just fine and the tires last 12-15 thousand miles. I think anyone that would put a car tire on a bike that is meant to lean is asking for trouble. But it's their lives.

[Lex]

One of the things that has come out of owning my Harley is being constantly reminded that many (most, actually) motorcyclist don't really care about engineering. I have given up trying to explain why the damper rod forks on Harleys (including, I think, the $34K SVO Electra Glide) should be replaced with cartridge forks. I keep hearing "My bike works fine" or "I'm not a racer, why do I need that?". They have no frame of reference so they just don't understand. If you could get them a ride on a bike with good forks on a bumpy road they'd understand, as is they can't grasp how much better the ride and handling could be for a very small increase in price. My point is that I'd wager money that azccj would "get it" if he rode a GL1800 with an upgraded fork.

 

What I finally figured out is that azccj and the Harley riders are right. If the bike is dangerous that is different but up to that point it really isn't for someone else to say what is right. I know the Harleys aren't dangerous in spite of really cheap forks, they just could be a lot better. The Honda must work fairy well in spite of a really badly engineered front end. I've run across one well ridden GL1800, I was having a good time annoying a couple of sport bikes on my K1200LT ( I really miss passing them with the CD player going) and only made a little ground on him. I certainly reserve the right to make fun of bad engineering on other people's bikes (mine, of course, are perfect ) but all that really matters is the bike meets the owner's expectation.

 

Lex