OT Honda Engineering

[pete roper]

Lex's post brings up a whole host of interesting issues. I essentially think he's perfectly right. At the end of the day the vast majority of people nowadays are more than happy to accept mediocrity as long as that mediacrity doesn't challenge them and allows them to do wat they want to do.

 

To go to the other extreme you can look at the current range of top Jap, (or Italian to a degree.) sports bikes. These are blisteringly powerful, incredibly light and have suspension that can be tuned for virtually anyone from an anorexic stick insect to the morbidly obese. Do many people EVER try anything but the most rudimentary changes to their suspension set up? The answer is NO! A BIG N-O! It's the ONLY explanation for why there are so many dreadfully slow, evil handling, if not downright dangerous! piles of almost new shite on the road.

 

Perhaps it's because I came from a generation, (Cue violins!) where I could only afford complete sh!te? Therefore you could get it going to the absolute best of your ability and it would still be sh!te! As time went by the 'Sh!te Quotient' of what I had to ride wnet down, but every step *up* was so astounding! So MIND BOGGLINGLY good that you kept hoping for more and always tried to get the very best.

 

If you start out from a perspective that what you really want is a 'Lifestyle' then it doesn't matter a tinker's cuss if the bike handles like a block of fermented guano, doesn't go, doesn't stop, doesn't really do anything! As long as it fits the pre-conceptions of the rider? Well that's fine.

 

Modern bikes, even the bad ones, are so far ahead of what most people require in terms of a vehicle that things like poxy forks and inadequate frames are, in real terms, perfectly OK. Their owners seem to be happy with that. So where's the problem?

 

I just find it is a result of personal experience that I want the entire *collective* that is my motorbike to work the best it can. None of my bikes are in any way, remotely, *perfect*. But not one of them is a homgenous *package* delivered to my doorstep and left un-tinkered with. The fact that certain groups of riders treat their motorbikes in much the same way as I treat a washing machine or a light bulb I find slightly baffling.... Not saying I'm *right* or *better* just confused as to why mediocrity is so popular and accepted???

 

Pete

[Steve G.]

[mike wilson]

Not saying I'm *right* or *better* just confused as to why mediocrity is so popular and accepted???

 

People want a simple life but also to appear to be "with it". They buy what they are told to but have no idea of how to extract the best from it. Just look at the number of highly expensive, bulky and underused digital SLR cameras on tourists' necks these days. Most of them would be better off with a point and shoot for the 6x4 snaps or screen shots they are going to make from their files. Or the SUV/4x4 phenomenon.

[Guzzirider]

People want a simple life but also to appear to be "with it".

 

Thankfully Guzzi riders will never be seen as "with it"- at least not in this country- I actually enjoy the tractor jokes.

 

I think the "with it" bike in the UK at the moment is the BMW GS- you see millions of the buggers being ridden around equipped with crashbars and equipment for a round the world trip, but in reality the fat bloke riding it is popping 2 miles to Marks & Spencers.

 

Guy

[pete roper]

 

Awww, c'mon Steve, OK it was a bit sanctimonious and lachrymose but it wasn't *that* bad .

 

Pete

[Guest ratchethack]

Not saying I'm *right* or *better* just confused as to why mediocrity is so popular and accepted???

Awww, c'mon Steve, OK it was a bit sanctimonious and lachrymose but it wasn't *that* bad :grin: .

 

Pete

I'd say you nailed it with aplomb, Pete. I only say, "aplomb" because you sent me to the dictionary with "lachrymose"! The cueing of the violins would've been my clue, but I missed it entirely. . . Very well said!

 

I don't think Steve was havin' a go. But the woods 'r thick with all manner of truly amazing behavior lately.

 

Wot fascinates me is the shlubs who're OFFENDED by anything and everything above their own level of mediocrity these days. . .

 

State y'er point of view and (heaven forfend!) BACK IT UP well with hard, irrefutable evidence? There's invariably some defective hyena from under some rock somewhere who's gonna go outta his way to take a back-handed poke -- without as much as a comment (or evidently a care) about the point or the topic at hand -- in agreement or otherwise!

 

Wot's WRONG with people, Pete?

 

Ah, but the results of self limiting behavior are a beautiful thing to observe, and never cease to entertain.

 

As it has always been and ever shall be, the Philistines shall fall upon their swords from lack of integrity until they are no more. . .

[Steve G.]

Awww, c'mon Steve, OK it was a bit sanctimonious and lachrymose but it wasn't *that* bad .

 

Pete

 

You're right Pete, it wasn't that bad. Unfortunately a bit of sanctimounious brow beating is all it takes to set off my tummy right now, still suffering from "soft stool syndrum" after 2 weeks in Mexico. A couple days with a bottle of tums, and I'll be able to handle even the worst rants of how someone thinks I should set up and play with my toys.

No worries Mate!

Ciao, Steve

[Alex-Corsa]

I think the "with it" bike in the UK at the moment is the BMW GS- you see millions of the buggers being ridden around equipped with crashbars and equipment for a round the world trip, but in reality the fat bloke riding it is popping 2 miles to Marks & Spencers.

 

Guy

Yep, as it seems they are all over the world, and to tell you the truth not only with BMWs

[dlaing]

snip

...but all that really matters is the bike meets the owner's expectation.

Yet somehow some will manage to criticize both those that don't have the perfect spring sag and those that buy the Ohlins...perhaps living in a narrow spectrum of going beyond mediocrity....maybe it is an obscession with keeping a tight budget More money to ya.

[Guest ratchethack]

Yet somehow some will manage to criticize both those that don't have the perfect spring sag and those that buy the Ohlins...perhaps living in a narrow spectrum of going beyond mediocrity....maybe it is an obscession with keeping a tight budget More money to ya.

Hey Dave! I've never read a post on this Forum criticizing any person on this planet (or any other planet), for either not having "the perfect spring sag" OR for buying Ohlins products. Have you? If so, who exactly was (or is) the alleged foul, n'er-do-well perpetrator, and exactly who was (or were) the undeserving victim(s) of these alleged attacks of criticism?

 

It seems you've already got some vicious, dastardly blaggard in y'er gunsights. By all means, leave us not tarry a single moment! Let's round up a posse, track the offending miscreant down and string 'im up -- or at the very least, circulate a petition and get the perp ousted from the Elks Lodge and the PTA, f'er cryin' out loud!

 

Help me understand, please. The way you've expressed it, "going beyond mediocrity" would seem to be a BAD THING!? Now spank me silly if I've read you wrong, Dave, but it would almost seem as if y'er advocating a defense of mediocrity here -- even further, championing mediocrity as a cause!? If this is a personal life philosophy, is the wife and/or employer aware of it yet?! If you could just confirm y'er position a little beyond wot you've so clearly posted above -- is living in a broad spectrum WITHIN the bounds of mediocrity a GOOD THING, Dave??

 

If so, in the interest of protecting the Forum community from wot you evidently consider the evil of "going beyond mediocrity", you've evidently got some important missionary work do do here to remain consistent with y'er life philosophy, lest such infectious diseases as merit and pursuit of excellence catch hold and (heaven forfend!) begin to spread!

 

Please advise!

 

As you might well expect (or not?), Enquiring minds (well, you know)

[Steve G.]

Oh, I'm going to like this. From Global Warming to Glodal Mediocrity!!! Maybe I can help. Before the dam bursts, where oh where should I stick my finger!!

Ciao, Steve

[Guest ratchethack]

. . . where oh where should I stick my finger!!

Ciao, Steve

Well Steve, as I've come to understand it for purposes of translation (as increasingly called for hereabouts it seems), the Remulacian Mind Meld calls f'er all 38 Remulacian digits plugged into all 38 Remulacian bodily orifices before the festivities begin.

 

I really don't understand exactly how it works, wot with the unearthly Remulacian Physics and 7-dimension reverse-polarity gravity wells, and nitrous oxide atmosphere and all. Any advice I could give you along these lines would only be a one-finger start. But if y'er seriously interested in this kinda behavior, I reckon you oughtta consult the Dark and Purply Master Hisself f'er optimal results.

 

The dark and purply planet from high orbit approach:

[Steve G.]

Well Steve, as I've come to understand it for purposes of translation (as increasingly called for hereabouts it seems), the Remulacian Mind Meld calls f'er all 38 Remulacian digits plugged into all 38 Remulacian bodily orifices before the festivities begin.

 

I really don't understand exactly how it works, wot with the unearthly Remulacian Physics and 7-dimension reverse-polarity gravity wells, and nitrous oxide atmosphere and all. Any advice I could give you along these lines would only be a one-finger start. But if y'er seriously interested in this kinda behavior, I reckon you oughtta consult the Dark and Purply Master Hisself f'er optimal results.

 

The dark and purply planet from high orbit approach:

 

My God!!, I'm sure I can see Dlaing's house on that PPP [pretty purple planet]. Now we know the real truth.

Ciao, Steve

[Guest ratchethack]

Modern bikes, even the bad ones, are so far ahead of what most people require in terms of a vehicle that things like poxy forks and inadequate frames are, in real terms, perfectly OK. Their owners seem to be happy with that. So where's the problem? . . . Pete

Hmmm. I thought about this over the weekend. And a perfect early Spring riding weekend it was. Lots o' groups o' riders out touring my favorite local mountains.

 

Just being the devil's advocate here WRT y'er comments above, Pete.

 

I reckon there is "a problem" here, after all.

 

Not with poxy things like spine frames, but with suspension setup, which is just as important IMHO on one bike as the next, regardless of how poxy the frame or forks, and possibly MORE important the less skill the rider has! I suggest that most riders, including meself, can't (or won't) outride a poxy spine frame properly set up, but that's just me.

 

Sure enough, happens every Spring, just as faithfully as the swallows return to Capistrano. Right along with the usual Spring collection of new and inexperienced riders, the hills are alive with the sirens of ambulances, med-evac rescue vehicles, and the coroner's meat wagon.

 

Ever see wot a shiny, brand spankin' new hyperbike looks like after it's bounced and tumbled down a mountainside end over end, and then winched back up a couple hundred feet through granite boulders and manzanita scrub? I've seen several, and they ain't so nice & shiny afterward. Most o' the squids that pilot 'em over the armco are lots less mouthy in the back o' ambulances than they were a few hours earlier at the local hangout, too. Now I didn't come upon this scenario this weekend, but I have many times. I DID hear that familiar lonesome wail o' sirens echoing across the mountainsides in the distance, however, and I reckon I know wot that means. . . .

 

Now part o' "the problem" as I've come to understand it, Pete, is that new and inexperienced riders in recent years haven't got much of a clue about wot they're getting themselves into on the road in any way, shape, or form -- and as far as most newbies are concerned, suspension set-up simply ain't on the menu next to 150+ hp. I reckon that unless someone makes 'em sign a release form or a waiver (not that I'd be in favor of any such Nanny State regulation, understand!), getting a new bike chassis properly set up and matched to their weight and riding style doesn't occur to them any more'n correct tire pressure does. And why would it? They never gave a thought to suspension or tire pressure in their CAR before a Sunday drive in the mountains?!?! Far more important these days to spend many hours o' careful attention getting proper color coordination between the helmet, "racing" suit, and the whizzy "racing" graphics on that fairing. . . .

 

I reckon I started out like you did. My only chance for moto ownership f'er many years was to make a minimum investment resurrecting some old clunker left behind a garage somewhere that had been run into the ground. Back then, suspension setup was always the NUMBER ONE item on the list of any new or new-to-the-owner's "to do" list, right along with tire pressure. And so it's been ever since I cranked up the rear preload on the first well-used moto I got ahold of that actually had a rear suspension back in 1968. This is when suspension damping technology was the equivalent of screen door closers (when it worked at all), and an inner tube that held tire pressure for a week without losing 5 lbs pressure seemed like a priveleged piece of gear. After 2 hard-tail bikes, how well I recall wot bliss when the disks in my spine were no longer pressed into service (literally) as shock absorbers! Such principles learned early become ingrained, I guess.

 

As you mentioned, many newbies seem to believe they've purchased a LIFESTYLE. There are some obligations and responsibilities to oneself and one's fellow travellers on the road that would seem to transcend a LIFESTYLE CHOICE, n'est-ce pas? How about the idea that many LIFESTYLE CHOICES lately seem to actually become more of a DEATHSTYLE CHOICE??

 

Now when you put a group o' happy newbies on their happy new hyper-motos and flashy newbie gear, and turn 'em loose in the mountains, and no one has the first clue about suspension setup, all it takes is one James Bond-style "ejector seat" catapult over the bars out of an ever-present mountain chuckhole, due to preload backed-off showroom-floor soft -- Somebody, possibly many somebodies, had a real bad day. The sirens will wail, and tow trucks will roll. If it's the newbie at the front o' a tight group who goes down, he can (and will, I'm here to tell you!) take out as many as 3 or 4 behind him. Then they hafta stack 'em in the meatwagons like cordwood. Makes no sense to me, but then I'm merely a highly critical, crotchety kind-of-a Road Geez.

[mike wilson]

Sounds like natural selection at work. What's the problem?

 

Apart from:

- the effect it has on other road users seeing nasty internal bits on the outside, leading to....

- the effect it has on motorcycling and motorcyclists as your favourite politician jumps on a "safety" bandwagon.

 

On the other side of the coin, there may be an argument for designing the "performance" of suspension systems so that the rider is given _a lot_ of warning that they are nearing the performance envelope of the machine. Preferably well within the performance envelope of the rider. In other words, making the suspension with a lot of feedback so that the rider is in no doubt that performance specs are about to be exceeded. The possibility that accidents occur well inside the performance envelope of the machine but outside that of the rider seems to me to be a high one.

 

The only way that could be done usefully is with rider training.