Forkin' around

[Guest ratchethack]

Ratchet, you may borrow my forks if you wish.

And while you are at it, you may wish to map the air spring effect at varying oil levels, if you are so curious and ambitious.

Well, thanks, Dave. A generous offer, not sure wot I'd do with your forks, but it's good to know there's a pair available for exploratory surgery, if this would be the idea? I've already had my own forks thoroughly dismantled right down to the cartridges. To my thinking, the only mysterious parts remain within the cartridges. This is just me, but with little specialized knowledge of damper valves, they'd be more of an esoteric thing best left for meddling by suspension Pro's. I don't have any interest in modifications here, though I have no doubt that there are many who would.

 

The drawing doesn't shed any light on damper valve actuation, and it looks to me like it's the 043 forks, not the 040. Wot I hope to discover from Marzocchi is a manual that clarifies fork preload adjustment and explains the 22 mm location of the jam nut. Again, I'd made assumptions about this (that now appear to've been correct) the first time I had mine apart, and have maintained them ever since according to these assumptions, cutting new spacers and setting the blue nuts back to their stock position. I was later evidently misinformed about wot appear to be threaded adjusters for fine-tuning preload.

[Dan M]

Dan, the game is afoot! Wot you say makes perfect sense. I've begun to understand that the instruction on this fork that I took many moons ago from a Pro (who frankly, ought to've known better, if my newfound understanding is correct! ) was WRONG.

 

 

 

 

So often the case. After 30 years of wrenchin' I've spoken to many "Pros", self appointed or otherwise who tend to "speak freely" and spew bad information as if it were gospel.

, , and

 

A solid understanding of mechanical devices and (unfortunately what we don't have at the moment) a good manual is often the best way to attack situations like this. Sometimes thinking outside the box and going around the manual helps too

, , and

[Guest ratchethack]

The reason why the position of the blue nut is of importance is because of the relation of the adjustment screws to the adjustmentt rod.

If you screw it on too many threads, you might not be able to open the damping valve, if you screw it on too less threads, you cannot close the dampening valve completely. This is the reason why the clicks should always be counted from fully closed, the number of clicks depends fron the relative position nut/rod.

The influence on spring preload/ride height is minor, as the spacers allow much more preload adjustment.

This is evidently the case, Matt. Extremely conspicuous by its absence, however, is any mention wotsoever of the importance of maintaining a fairly critical setting of the blue jam nuts and caps in the Guzzi service manual, since on disassembly, there's no indicaton of any kind where or why this should be set.

 

One easily imagines many self-service guys getting this wrong and losing all damping adjustability!

 

EDIT:

 

Would I be correct in understanding that dealers typically work from the same Guzzi service manual I've got? If so, wot're the probabilities that a Marz 40 mm USD fork would come back from seal replacement and/or fork oil change with functioning damping adjustment?! 50-50? Less?

 

Now we all know and trust our Pals, the Good Guy Dealers, but wot of the rest, including the ones that're new to Guzzi and/or might have guys doing Service who've never seen a Marz 40 mm USD fork before??

 

The mind reels. . . .

[Dan M]

This thread has brought me to the point where I NO LONGER BELIEVE wot appears to be threaded preload adjustment on the cartridge assembly rods is that at all. Though this would be a plausible explanation taken on appearances alone (and lacking a freakin' manual that explains the thing! <_ the misinterpretation of this has no doubt brought similar confusion to many being unmentioned in guzzi service and user manuals might have contributed lots frustration with owners these forks over years who screwed up by disabling damping adjustment entirely doing wot seemed right lacking guidance from manual src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_doh.gif" alt=":doh:">

 

 

 

It would be quite nice, and thoughtful of the engineers if the threaded rod was threaded further down by maybe 30mm and there were two nuts; one to lock the cap and one below it to adjust preload.

Now that may be is a modification worth considering.

[Guest ratchethack]

It would be quite nice, and thoughtful of the engineers if the threaded rod was threaded further down by maybe 30mm and there were two nuts; one to lock the cap and one below it to adjust preload.

Now that may be is a modification worth considering.

I like it, Dan! So elegant in its simplicity that we'd have no right to expect it to've been built this way in the first place! You'd need an additional lock nut in your scenario and more threads as you've suggested. You could replace the long blue anodized nut with three standard nuts, shorten up the spacers appropriately as needed, and gain infinite preload adjustability within a few cm range. Wot a concept, eh?

 

Now why d'you s'pose they threaded the cartridge rod assemblies as far as they did in the first place??

 

New subject, directed toward no one in particular.

 

Not to make a major change in the course of this thread, y'unnerstand -- just a minor one of significance to none but a few.

 

Considerable DAMPENING changes are occurring here in So California at this moment. We're getting a bit o' a soaking today. Though this is somewhat rare hereabouts, it's perfect weather -- if y'er a duck or a frog.

 

DAMPING settings on Guzzi forks and shocks remain where we set 'em, unless or until adjusted, regardless o' the weather.

 

Hercule and Sherlock would be so pleased that I brought this up . . . .

 

Where's Nogbad -- he's the official Corrections Officer on the PROPER use o' English?!

[Dan M]

INew subject, directed toward no one in particular.

 

Not to make a major change in the course of this thread, y'unnerstand -- just a minor one of significance to none but a few.

 

Considerable DAMPENING changes are occurring here in So California at this moment. We're getting a bit o' a soaking today. Though this is somewhat rare hereabouts, it's perfect weather -- if y'er a duck or a frog. <_>

 

DAMPING settings on Guzzi forks and shocks remain where we set 'em, unless or until adjusted, regardless o' the weather.

 

Hercule and Sherlock would be so pleased that I brought this up . . . .

 

Where's Nogbad -- he's the official Corrections Officer on the use o' English?!

 

Smart Ass.

 

My Oxford American Dictionary defines dampen: v 1 to decrease in activity or vigor. 2 to become or to make damp.

Gee, seems to have two meanings.

I believe increasing the DAMPENING adjustment in my fork will decrease activity.

 

I will concede though that the Marz manual calls the inner rod the damping rod.

 

What you don't know about me is that occasionally I stutter especially on words like dampenininingg

[Tom M]

I like it, Dan! So elegant in its simplicity that we'd have no right to expect it to've been built this way in the first place! You'd need an additional lock nut in your scenario and more threads as you've suggested. You could replace the long blue anodized nut with three standard nuts, shorten up the spacers appropriately as needed, and gain infinite preload adjustability within a few cm range. Wot a concept, eh?

 

Now why d'you s'pose they threaded the cartridge rod assemblies as far as they did in the first place??

 

New subject, directed toward no one in particular.

 

Not to make a major change in the course of this thread, y'unnerstand -- just a minor one of significance to none but a few.

 

Considerable DAMPENING changes are occurring here in So California at this moment. We're getting a bit o' a soaking today. Though this is somewhat rare hereabouts, it's perfect weather -- if y'er a duck or a frog. <_>

 

DAMPING settings on Guzzi forks and shocks remain where we set 'em, unless or until adjusted, regardless o' the weather.

 

Hercule and Sherlock would be so pleased that I brought this up . . . .

 

Where's Nogbad -- he's the official Corrections Officer on the use o' English?!

 

Thanks for sorting fact from fiction regarding preload method guys. I'll be re-springing my forks soon, good to have this info available

 

Ratch, I agree that damping is what happens inside the forks and dampening is what happens when a fork seal blows.

 

As long as you're bringing up the English language, I have a question about your posts. What are the apostrophes in y'er and f'er for? Until I signed on here I have never seen those words before.

[Guest ratchethack]

I believe increasing the DAMPENING adjustment in my fork will decrease activity.

Oh my, no. I don't think Officer Nogbad would approve at all.

 

Lemme see if I can throw some synthetic cartridge fork fluid on this little conflagration.

 

The DAMPENING of the roads hereabouts today will decrease motorcycle activity, including my own.

 

The DAMPING settings on the Guzzi suspension will accordingly remain free from the effects of DAMPENING, which is generally always the intent of the rider.

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .I have a question about your posts. What are the apostrophes in y'er and f'er for? Until I signed on here I have never seen those words before.

I think I must've made 'em up.

 

Now Nogbad will certainly correct me if I'm wrong here, but one correct use of an apostrophe, if I remember my 5th grade English at all, is to stand in place of missing letters in a contraction, such as "can't" being a commonly accepted contraction of "cannot". "y'er" would likewise be a slang misspelling, as well as a contraction of "your" (I freely use it as a further contraction, as well as a slang misspelling of "You're" as well), but, consistent with ever so many anomalies within the common use of the English language or not (especially the ones I fabricate out o' the clear blue sky ) there's no accounting for "f'er" wotsoever.

 

I take considerable poetic license here in my interpretation of the spelling of slang and commonly mispronounced words.

 

In summary:

 

Yes, I feel entirely free to offer corrections to others on the use of language, while making up me own rules just as I please!

 

It goes right along with one of the more feckless philosophies of life in general that I hold near and dear:

 

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!"

[Ouiji Veck]

Aaaaaaa 5th grade.....best 3 yrs. of my life.

Thats when my "poetic license " got "revoked"

[Dan M]

What a great technical forum. Not only do you get technical information (albeit sometimes from the uninformed) but an English lessen thrown in.

[FuelCooler]

Well, thanks, Dave. A generous offer, not sure wot I'd do with your forks, but it's good to know there's a pair available for exploratory surgery, if this would be the idea? I've already had my own forks thoroughly dismantled right down to the cartridges. To my thinking, the only mysterious parts remain within the cartridges. This is just me, but with little specialized knowledge of damper valves, they'd be more of an esoteric thing best left for meddling by suspension Pro's. I don't have any interest in modifications here, though I have no doubt that there are many who would.

 

The drawing doesn't shed any light on damper valve actuation, and it looks to me like it's the 043 forks, not the 040. Wot I hope to discover from Marzocchi is a manual that clarifies fork preload adjustment and explains the 22 mm location of the jam nut. Again, I'd made assumptions about this (that now appear to've been correct) the first time I had mine apart, and have maintained them ever since according to these assumptions, cutting new spacers and setting the blue nuts back to their stock position. I was later evidently misinformed about wot appear to be threaded adjusters for fine-tuning preload.

 

You could vary the 22mm setting to set the correct sag only (do not ride it!) to determine the correct final spacer length at the 22mm setting. This could save the time and material of making several sets.

[dlaing]

Oh my, no. I don't think Officer Nogbad would approve at all.

 

Lemme see if I can throw some synthetic fork cartridge fluid on this little conflagration.

 

The DAMPENING of the roads hereabouts today will decrease motorcycle activity, including my own.

 

The DAMPING settings on the Guzzi suspension will accordingly remain free from the effects of DAMPENING, which is generally always the intent of the rider.

 

From what I can tell damping and dampening can both be used to refer to the supression of oscillations, but damping is more common.

Damping seems to be much more popular for refering to shock absorber, but not exclusive.

But to damp or to dampen seem more interchangeable when discussing suppression of oscillation.

Damping does not seem to be used to describe moistening, unlike dampening.

 

 

Definitions of dampening on the Web:

 

* The resistance caused by fluid in a shock body when the piston moves through it.

www.geocities.com/h3ath3ry/dictionary.htm

 

* moistening: the act of making something slightly wet

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

 

*Dampening refers to the musical technique of muting an instrument while playing it, or soon after, before it has lost its sustain (stopped ringing). It can be used on a wide variety of string and percussion instruments. This may be done with a mute.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dampening

 

Definitions of damping on the Web:

 

* The process of minimizing the noise emitted from a coaster.

www.geocities.com/RollerCoasterTalk/definitions.html

 

 

* Damping is any effect, either deliberately engendered or inherent to a system, that tends to reduce oscillations.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping

 

* The progressive reduction or suppression of oscillation in a device or system. Viscous damping uses the viscosity of liquids or gases to effect damping.

www.geomechanics.com/dspapp.cfm

 

 

FROM WORDNET

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

 

 

Verb

* S: (v) stifle, dampen (smother or suppress) "Stifle your curiosity"

* S: (v) moisten, wash, dampen (make moist) "The dew moistened the meadows"

* S: (v) muffle, mute, dull, damp, dampen, tone down (deaden (a sound or noise), especially by wrapping)

* S: (v) dampen (reduce the amplitude (of oscillations or waves))

* S: (v) dampen, deaden, damp (make vague or obscure or make (an image) less visible) "muffle the message"

* S: (v) damp (restrain or discourage) "the sudden bad news damped the joyous atmosphere"

* S: (v) dampen (check; keep in check (a fire))

* S: (v) dampen, damp, soften, weaken, break (lessen in force or effect) "soften a shock"; "break a fall"

 

Noun

* S: (n) moistening, dampening (the act of making something slightly wet)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you don't know about me is that occasionally I stutter especially on words like dampenininingg

The same happens to me, so it is better say damping when talking shocks and besides, if I say, "I need to adjust the rebound dampenininiinging" the technojargon nazis attack me even if they are not correct.

[Rusty Bucket]

 

 

STOP PRESS

Marzocci has downloadable manuals on their site. Sadly our now antique 40mm units are not listed but a current 43USD is. Hopefully this will give us some insight.

 

http://www.marzocchi.com/template/listSPAM...p;Sito=usa-moto

 

Edit: This is clearly a different fork with different adjustments and more studying is needed but if you look at the cutaway view on page 27 of the manual, it appears that the rod acts on a valve as thought. (For rebound only in the 43mm.)

 

Very grateful to Dan for posting this; should be helpful for those of us with the 43mm forks. The factory manual has very little on servicing the later forks if they aren't gold. I know I feel much better about my impending fork strip.

[mike wilson]

chatter about damping/dampening

 

There is the possibly apochryphal story about Mike Hailwood's work on the handling of one of the early Honda multis.

 

Mike having had an exciting few laps trying to restrain the rear end at a UK race track, the Honda engineers took the rear shockers off and were discussing what to do.

 

Legend has it that MH picked them up off the bench, walked across the track and hurled them into the lake that was on the infield.

 

A perfect case of dampening the dampers. Permanently.