Re-seal the 6 speed

[FuelCooler]

!!!! Update Read this first!!!!

If you want to reseal the 1st and specifically the 2nd rear cover you will need a KM-05 peg socket with a small enough outer diameter to fit on the input shaft were the clutch plate rides. Rolf Halvorsen tools are very well regarded!

QUOTE(BrianG @ Mar 5 2007, 08:17 PM)

 

 

The tool is to release the input shaft from the CASE..... not from the transmission cover!

 

All of the shafts remain captured in the "transmission cover" and should NOT be removed for purposes of re-sealing the transmission. It is not necessary. There are no seals or gaskets that need attention in the "transmission cover".

 

Read on.....

 

Hello folks,

I did a seach on this but only found some 5 speed info.

I am pulling the trans out of the the 2000 V11 this week to re-seal all the case joints with Grey Yamabond. Are there any special tools required? Anything strange to be aware of (besides the possible left upper mount area crack issue)? I have re-sealed the shift 'drum' case already and checked the breather.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

[Guest ratchethack]

It's really pretty straightforward. I assume you're aware of the trans recall on a range of serial #'s on this year bike, and this work is done? I had my trans out one day, took the trans to the dealer for "inside the box" recall work, had it back in and buttoned up the following day, on the road again the next. One thing I found that saves some grief (see "crabbing the frame" procedure) is removing only the left-hand side pork chop, which allows you to leave the rear subframe and rear part of the wiring harness intact, supported on the right-hand pork chop. I found it makes good sense to suspend both steering head and rear subframe from above, which lessens the risk of a tip-over while y'er wrenchin' on it. Good time to threadlock and lube everything the Luigi's missed in Mandello.

 

Have fun.

[pete roper]

If your bike has had the recall, (If needed?) and isn't leaking why are you doing it? Unless you just want to of course, which id fine, if a bit perverse and is the sought of thing I do .

 

Incidentally I've not had to go all the way in to an *old* six speed yet. There are a couple of peg nuts in that require there special tools if you want to take the shafts apart, (I have a set of Rolf's tools which include these, as I said, I haven't had to use 'em yet but I'm happy to loan 'em to *regulars* on the board who I feel I can trust to send 'em back if required.) and the shock absorber requires a press to take to pieces but apart from that I think it's all pretty much nuts and bolts stuff.

 

Pete

[FuelCooler]

Thanks Ratchethack,

The recall subject concerns me a bit as well. I am the second offical owner though I did not buy it from the original owner. The guy I bought it from (straight up honest guy) had to take it as a package deal w/ a Ghezzi-Brian and was told both recalls were done. It had 14000 miles on it when I bought it (19800 now). Judging by the light scratching / chipping around the bell-housing and output shaft housing it (the trans) appears to have been removed before. I think I will contact the original owner and ask him. I don't want the con-rods taking a peek outside of the cases either.

Thanks for the porkchop advise. I need to the paint the left one any way, as I did the faded right one in October. Perfect timing!

I have a Harbor Freight lift with a Handy Vise wheel vise. With tie downs it holds the bike very well. I guess I will run some ratchet straps up over some beams in the garage to hold the rear frame up. I was planning on doing it the way you did, but is there a reason you can't just rotate the whole frame aound the front mount after removing the swing arm, rear trans mounts and muffler mounts?

I plan on doing a bunch of poking around (including adding the extra trans bracket) while I have it apart. Suspension oil change as well.

Thanks again,

Steve

 

No special tools, Steve. It's really pretty straightforward. I assume you're aware of the trans recall on this year Guzzi, and this work is done? I had my trans out one day, took the trans to the dealer for "inside the box" recall work, had it back in and buttoned up the next day, on the road again the next. One thing I found that saves some grief (see "crabbing the frame" procedure) is removing only the left-hand side pork chop, which allows you to leave the rear subframe and rear part of the wiring harness intact, supported on the right-hand pork chop. I found it makes good sense to suspend both steering head and rear subframe from above, which lessens the risk of a tip-over while y'er wrenchin' on it. Good time to threadlock and lube everything the Luigi's missed in Mandello.

 

Have fun.

[FuelCooler]

Sorry,

Although I am perverse enough to pull things apart for a look-see, the box is leaking from what appears to be at the seams in the upper mount area but it doesn't look like it is cracked. I am going to remove the trans, clean it and put some powder on it to see where it is leaking from. The recall(s) have not been done on my watch, but claim to have been performed. Can I tell by looking at the internals?

From what you and Ratchet tell me, I can dissassemble the trans enough to re-seal it with normal tools and perhaps a press?

The trans only leaks when ridden, but it leaked sitting still as well before I re-sealed the side access cover.

Thanks Pete,

Steve

 

 

If your bike has had the recall, (If needed?) and isn't leaking why are you doing it? Unless you just want to of course, which id fine, if a bit perverse and is the sought of thing I do .

 

Incidentally I've not had to go all the way in to an *old* six speed yet. There are a couple of peg nuts in that require there special tools if you want to take the shafts apart, (I have a set of Rolf's tools which include these, as I said, I haven't had to use 'em yet but I'm happy to loan 'em to *regulars* on the board who I feel I can trust to send 'em back if required.) and the shock absorber requires a press to take to pieces but apart from that I think it's all pretty much nuts and bolts stuff.

 

Pete

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .is there a reason you can't just rotate the whole frame aound the front mount after removing the swing arm, rear trans mounts and muffler mounts?

That's wot I did, and I reckon it's wot most do. There's no doubt many variations on crabbing the frame. By the time you get the air box and swingarm out (see recent alignment thread for re-aligning the swingarm on the way back in), it looks pretty simple, and you can simply do wot looks like needs to be done.

 

BTW, no need to disturb the clutch line and create an unnecessary bleeding task. Simply take out the Grimeca clutch cylinder with the 3 socket-head screws, she slides straight back and out.

[Guest ratchethack]

Although I am perverse enough to pull things apart for a look-see, the box is leaking from what appears to be at the seams in the upper mount area but it doesn't look like it is cracked. . . .

Hmm. My Pal with '04 LM has exactly the same thing goin' on, and it looks ominous. No possible way to detect the source without dismantling, but it's evidently right at the top, behind a mess of stuff that we tried to remove and couldn't see behind well enough to find the source without crabbing the frame. His keeps getting worse, and dribbles down the right-hand side. Not that this necessarily explains it, but he's been known to do wheelies fairly regularly.

. . . .The recall(s) have not been done on my watch, but claim to have been performed. Can I tell by looking at the internals?

I believe there is a way, but you'd likely have to be very knowledgeable and have examined pre- and post- recall parts very carefully side-by-side. If anyone reading this knows better, hopefully they'll pitch in.

 

MGNA used to track completed recalls pretty carefully. You might investigate it and see if y'ers is on file. I know mine is, and I got the "official" authorized Guzzi dealer work order signed-off. This gets Guzzi off the hook legally, so hopefully they'd have an interest in keeping good records.

[Guest Mattress]

No special tools, Steve. It's really pretty straightforward. I assume you're aware of the trans recall on a range of serial #'s on this year bike, and this work is done? I had my trans out one day, took the trans to the dealer for "inside the box" recall work, had it back in and buttoned up the following day, on the road again the next. One thing I found that saves some grief (see "crabbing the frame" procedure) is removing only the left-hand side pork chop, which allows you to leave the rear subframe and rear part of the wiring harness intact, supported on the right-hand pork chop. I found it makes good sense to suspend both steering head and rear subframe from above, which lessens the risk of a tip-over while y'er wrenchin' on it. Good time to threadlock and lube everything the Luigi's missed in Mandello.

Ratchethack:

 

Will you please just download everything you have ever posted on this forum and compose a newsletter that you will distribute with a nominal donation to GuzziTech's fund for those that race a Moto Guzzi and place? I'll throw $20 towards the fund for a daily dose of your shit dude, cause it rocks the Starbucks.

 

Sorry Clash! Is London Calling? Add N to {X} someday will appear.

 

I don't know how much you understand that being from Michigan has shaped your bug-eyed character. But I saw it straight away. {for you non Peninsula types...even most Michigan hillbillys are in the upper echelon of SAT tests} It worms down into your being. It is a golden glove contender for most beautiful state of the fragile Union, with some of the hardest working blue collar hard knocks. We are not union pansies, we are just smart enough to see how manufacturing produces massive wealth and how cool it is to be a part of it. The steam, the smells, the noise of 20 ton ingots hitting the quench tank, that looooonnnnnnng slow locomotive whistle when you are curled up listening to the Cicadas or the Kay-d-Dids.. through the screen windows, cause we never had this thing called central (polluted) air..

 

Moms just made us put the box fans in the upstairs windows at night. Then before day, we'd shut the windows and be cool till 9Pm.

..........

 

 

boy I need some Sen-Sen

[BrianG]

I am just about to start the same project. My 2000 Sport was oozing tranny oil last year as well. Now that I've had to do the clutch this seems a good WYAI project.

 

It's good news that no special tools are needed.

 

Are there any gaskets in there that I should have on hand?

 

YamaBond is the stuff! It can even seal Norton engine cases!

[dlaing]

My tranny leaked, and I fixed it while leaving the tranny in the frame.

You may not be so lucky, but it may be worth a shot.

When you pull the airbox, you may get a better view.

I pulled the airbox, the shock, the starter, and the rear swing arm. This gave me access to pull the rear cover on the gear box. Once the cover was pulled, I tightened up the bolts on the inside that had loosened, re-guzzibonded (actually I think it was Permatex High Tack®)the rear cover, and put it all back together....Oh and I also pulled the gearbox side cover, but I don't recall if that was necessary.

No gaskets were used and no seals were beaten....just gasket sealant, and only on the rear cover.

I contemplated going one level deeper to seal the surface that had leaked, but I was unsure how to get the case open, and the loose bolts were a dead giveaway to the cause of the leak.

Good Luck!

[FuelCooler]

Hmm. My Pal with '04 LM has exactly the same thing goin' on, and it looks ominous........ Not that this necessarily explains it, but he's been known to do wheelies fairly regularly.

 

This (wheelies) sounds like me as well. When the oil light comes on, I count to 5 and set the front down. Just kiddin'.

 

I have the bike stripped down, ready for 'crabbing' and I still wouldn't place bets on the source of the leak.

 

MGNA used to track completed recalls pretty carefully. You might investigate it and see if y'ers is on file. I know mine is, and I got the "official" authorized Guzzi dealer work order signed-off. This gets Guzzi off the hook legally, so hopefully they'd have an interest in keeping good records.

 

My bike falls under the affected VIN #'s, should I contact a dealer to run the VIN (my local is FBF) or speak to MGNA? I understand some people have had varying luck with both of those choices.

 

Thanks

Steve

 

My tranny leaked, and I fixed it while leaving the tranny in the frame.

You may not be so lucky, but it may be worth a shot.

When you pull the airbox, you may get a better view.

I pulled the airbox, the shock, the starter, and the rear swing arm. This gave me access to pull the rear cover on the gear box. Once the cover was pulled, I tightened up the bolts on the inside that had loosened, re-guzzibonded (actually I think it was Permatex High Tack®)the rear cover, and put it all back together....Oh and I also pulled the gearbox side cover, but I don't recall if that was necessary.

No gaskets were used and no seals were beaten....just gasket sealant, and only on the rear cover.

I contemplated going one level deeper to seal the surface that had leaked, but I was unsure how to get the case open, and the loose bolts were a dead giveaway to the cause of the leak.

Good Luck!

 

If I had done this during riding season (and needed special tools), I would try that first! If the bolts are loose I will report that back.

Thanks dlaing.

 

This forum is fantastic.

Steve

[dlaing]

 

If I had done this during riding season (and needed special tools), I would try that first! If the bolts are loose I will report that back.

 

Good thinking

It is worth the extra work to make sure it is done right!

By the way, you do know about Redline ShockProof, right?

And while you have it all apart be sure to check the shift spring for binding.

[BrianG]

OK, with 18,000 miles showing on the clock, and God knows how many since the trannyrecall was done.

 

With the transmission in my hands, I can see that there were 3 points of leakage: (Redline traces leaks well!)

-the transmission output shaft seal

-the lower left corner of the transmission cover-to-gearbox cover plate interface

-the lower right corner of the transmission cover plate-to-transmission case interface

 

The gearbox cover comes off easily enough.........

 

I can't make out the guidance on the Service Manual about removing the transmission case, howver. It appears as though you support the transmission cover with the input shaft pointing upward, and lift the case off of the cover plate, leaving the gear shaft aseemblies in the cover plate.

 

Is this correct? Does the input shaft just pull out of the transmission case after removing that ring-nut?

 

If so, which size is it?? the Service manual specifies 3 sizes:

 

01 91 34 30 Tool for tightening the ø30 ring nut on the gearbox main shaft

4 01 91 38 30 Tool for tightening the ø24 ring nut on the gearbox main shaft

5 01 91 37 30 Tool for tightening ø22 ring nuts on the gearbox secondary shafts

 

I measure the:

- input shaft at 25mm

- space between flats on the ring-nut at 33mm

- OD of the ring nut at 38mm

 

Plus... the other ring-nuts on the transmission shafts (on the other ends) are of two sizes, both smaller than the input shaft ring-nut. That might imply that the o30 tool is correct, but there is nothing there that measures 30mm..............

 

AND who makes sockets for these things??

Not Snap-On...... Not Craftsman

[Greg Field]

FuelCooler:

 

I work at a Guzzi dealership. If you PM me with your VIN info, I can have our service manager check to see if the recall work was done.

[FuelCooler]

Good thinking

It is worth the extra work to make sure it is done right!

By the way, you do know about Redline ShockProof, right?

And while you have it all apart be sure to check the shift spring for binding.

 

Yes, I will drink the Kool-aid and smile......the Redline ShockProof ('heavy' if I recall correctly) will be going in on assembly. It has regular Hypoid petro based stuff in it now.

You are talking about the shifter pawl spring, correct? The one that breaks because its the wrong size?

 

 

FuelCooler:

 

I work at a Guzzi dealership. If you PM me with your VIN info, I can have our service manager check to see if the recall work was done.

 

PM'ing you shortly, then out to the garage to crab the frame.

Thanks Greg.