Forward foot position

[Guest SantaFeRider]

It's taken a while to figure out costs on this project. Sorry for the delay.

 

I will absorb the thousands I've spent to make a set of strong, functional, and good looking parts. I'm very happy with the results.

 

This control relocation kit moves the footpeg positions 140 mm forward and slightly downward, to the standard height of the Centauro model. It substantially reduces the amount of knee flexing without any significant difference in cornering angle. Rider comfort is increased. The original stroke and pressure required for braking and shifting are preserved. Shift and brake lever positions are adjustable for rider preference in the same manner as the original. All parts are designed for high strength to weight ratio and long term life.

 

All necessary installation parts and fasteners are provided, including:

Right Footpeg Bracket

Two M10 mounting screws, one M10 elastic stop nut, one 20 X 6.5mm spacer

Brake Lever

One special pivot screw, pivot bushing, two spacers, two M6 screws.

Left Footpeg Bracket

Two M10 mounting screws, two aluminum bracket spacers, one M10 elastic stop nut

Shift Lever

Bell Crank

Transmission connecting rod

 

Fasteners and connecting rod are stainless steel. Aluminum parts are machined billet, except for the Shift Lever, which is a high strength machined aluminum casting.

No special tools are required.

 

The two footpeg brackets, brake lever, and bell crank are machined billet aluminum. (6061-T6 high strength)

 

There are two practical ways to make the rather complex shift lever. If we go with investment casting, the surface finish will be like the footpegs and like the picture of the shift lever I've supplied. If we go with sand casting, the finish will be like the cylinder barrels. In either case, there will be machined surfaces with a polished surface finish where necessary.

 

I need feedback at this point. What it comes down to is $402 for the complete set with the sand cast shift lever and $511 for the complete set with the investment cast finish. There's a big difference in tooling cost.

 

Let's make it:

 

$398 sand cast, $495 investment cast for the complete sets.

 

I've priced it tight and paid some pretty big bills to get this far, so I don't expect to reduce prices in the future. If someone wants to buy 10 or more sets, I might be able to shave something off.

 

Guys, please let me know what you prefer. I need enough orders to return the investment in tooling expense, and have to decide which way to go. If there is enough demand, it might be possible to go both ways.

 

that's great news! Thank you!

 

Please pardon my ignorance: what is the difference between a sand cast and an investment cast?

[Ryland3210]

that's great news! Thank you!

 

Please pardon my ignorance: what is the difference between a sand cast and an investment cast?

 

Here's a real brief description:

 

Sand casting: The simplest method of casting, dates back thousands of years. A model, called a "pattern" is made of the part, normally out of hardwood, usually by hand. It's made slightly larger than the final product to allow for shrinkage of the metal during cooling. In the simplest explanation, the pattern is pushed part way into a box of special sand. A thin layer of some material which does not stick to the sand is placed over the sand. Then, another box is placed on top and filled with sand.

 

The sand is then compacted, and usually baked to harden it. The two boxes, called "cope" and "drag" are then separated, the pattern removed, leaving a cavity with the shape of the part and put back together. In addition to the part pattern, channels are created to admit the molten metal, and allow gases to escape. Molten metal is poured into the assembled mold and allowed to freeze.

 

The part will have the metal which froze in the feed channels attached to it. These are usually removed with a band saw. The part is then sanded, filed, or ground to remove any flash or exceptionally rough surfaces.

 

The pattern will also have it's sides angled between 1.5 and 3 degrees, called "draft angles", so it can easily be removed from the sand. The surface finish mirrors the sand, so it depends on the type of sand used and other factors. The sand is recycled. There are more complex sand casting methods, but this gives you the idea.

 

Investment Casting: More complex, and also dates back thousands of years. Tooling, usually aluminum, is machined to form cavities which are the negative of the shape of the part. In other words, the air in the cavity of this aluminum mold is in the shape of the part, plus it is provided with channels for the metal. In many cases, draft angles can be eliminated.

 

A special wax is poured into the aluminum mold and allowed to freeze. The wax copy of the part is then positioned in a box and plaster is poured around it and allowed to harden. In some cases, the plaster can be sprayed onto the outside of the wax to form a shell instead of using a box.

 

It is then baked to melt the wax out, leaving a cavity in the shape of the part and feed channels. Molten metal is poured into the plaster mold. Once it is frozen, the plaster is broken off the metal part. The wax is recycled.

 

In investment casting the single aluminum mold is used to make numerous wax patterns. Making the aluminum mold is much more expensive than the sand cast pattern, and the parts are also more expensive because of the multi step wax pattern making-plaster mold-casting process. It has the advantage of being able to cast almost any shape, and better surface finish because the grain structure of plaster is finer than the sand used in sand casting. Dimensional tolerances are tighter than with sand casting, which often reduces machining cost. The aluminum mold is able to make numerous wax patterns with little wear, as compared to the wood pattern which is used over and over on every part.

[Guest SantaFeRider]

Here's a real brief description:

 

Sand casting: The simplest method of casting, dates back thousands of years. A model, called a "pattern" is made of the part, normally out of hardwood, usually by hand. It's made slightly larger than the final product to allow for shrinkage of the metal during cooling. In the simplest explanation, the pattern is pushed part way into a box of special sand. A thin layer of some material which does not stick to the sand is placed over the sand. Then, another box is placed on top and filled with sand.

 

The sand is then compacted, and usually baked to harden it. The two boxes, called "cope" and "drag" are then separated, the pattern removed, leaving a cavity with the shape of the part and put back together. In addition to the part pattern, channels are created to admit the molten metal, and allow gases to escape. Molten metal is poured into the assembled mold and allowed to freeze.

 

The part will have the metal which froze in the feed channels attached to it. These are usually removed with a band saw. The part is then sanded, filed, or ground to remove any flash or exceptionally rough surfaces.

 

The pattern will also have it's sides angled between 1.5 and 3 degrees, called "draft angles", so it can easily be removed from the sand. The surface finish mirrors the sand, so it depends on the type of sand used and other factors. The sand is recycled. There are more complex sand casting methods, but this gives you the idea.

 

Investment Casting: More complex, and also dates back thousands of years. Tooling, usually aluminum, is machined to form cavities which are the negative of the shape of the part. In other words, the air in the cavity of this aluminum mold is in the shape of the part, plus it is provided with channels for the metal. In many cases, draft angles can be eliminated.

 

A special wax is poured into the aluminum mold and allowed to freeze. The wax copy of the part is then positioned in a box and plaster is poured around it and allowed to harden. In some cases, the plaster can be sprayed onto the outside of the wax to form a shell instead of using a box.

 

It is then baked to melt the wax out, leaving a cavity in the shape of the part and feed channels. Molten metal is poured into the plaster mold. Once it is frozen, the plaster is broken off the metal part. The wax is recycled.

 

In investment casting the single aluminum mold is used to make numerous wax patterns. Making the aluminum mold is much more expensive than the sand cast pattern, and the parts are also more expensive because of the multi step wax pattern making-plaster mold-casting process. It has the advantage of being able to cast almost any shape, and better surface finish because the grain structure of plaster is finer than the sand used in sand casting. Dimensional tolerances are tighter than with sand casting, which often reduces machining cost. The aluminum mold is able to make numerous wax patterns with little wear, as compared to the wood pattern which is used over and over on every part.

 

do I understand that you are giving us a choice of finishes or you are just thinking in loud voice?

 

Are you ready to take orders or you are just informing us of the process involved in the production of these accessories?

[Ryland3210]

do I understand that you are giving us a choice of finishes or you are just thinking in loud voice?

 

Are you ready to take orders or you are just informing us of the process involved in the production of these accessories?

 

I'm ready to take orders, but need to decide which process to use, because the tooling costs are so high, I don't want to incur both.

 

I'll see if there is a way to survey all those interested make a decision this week.

 

What's your preference?

[Guest SantaFeRider]

I'm ready to take orders, but need to decide which process to use, because the tooling costs are so high, I don't want to incur both.

 

I'll see if there is a way to survey all those interested make a decision this week.

 

What's your preference?

 

 

in the Guzzi tradition I'd go for the most economic for as long as it fits well and works. If there are some aesthetic finishing issues I guess I can take care of them myself.

[John in Leeds]

Let's make it:

 

$398 sand cast, $495 investment cast for the complete sets.

 

Guys, please let me know what you prefer. I need enough orders to return the investment in tooling expense, and have to decide which way to go. If there is enough demand, it might be possible to go both ways.

 

 

Put me down for 1 set in the best finish possible. However I will take either option you decide.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Guest SantaFeRider]

Put me down for 1 set in the best finish possible. However I will take either option you decide.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

I'd second John if that helps get the numbers up.

[Greg Field]

Greg, I was under the impression the Motobits moved the controls down and back.

 

What is the range difference in those you have?

 

Price?

 

Thanks.

 

From memory 45mm (about 1-3/4 inches) forward and 30mm (1-14 inch) downward.

[Tracey]

Another issue with Moto-bits item..

The pegs are solid mounted? Will not more if you drag the pavement, sounds like a real downer..

[Greg Field]

Another issue with Moto-bits item..

The pegs are solid mounted? Will not more if you drag the pavement, sounds like a real downer..

 

I have dragged mine several times. They're bevelling off nicely on both sides. Freaks you out the first time, but if you do not over react, nothing bad will happen. They just leave a silver streak though the corner. And you are heeled waaaaaayyy over for street before they touch. Centauro pegs are lower.

[Ryland3210]

Put me down for 1 set in the best finish possible. However I will take either option you decide.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

Hi John,

 

I've sent you an email with order placement details.

 

The consensus is for the lower cost casting method. However, for the initial parties which have expressed interest, an additional secondary finishing step will be done at no additional cost. I'm confident you'll be pleased.

 

I expect to ship in about 3 weeks, but will have a more accurate idea after I visit the casting shop tomorrow.

 

A full set of instructions will be sent along. There is no need to remove anything from the bike other than the existing footpegs and levers. All the necessary fasteners, in stainless steel wherever practical, are included. No special tools are needed.

 

Cheers,

 

John

 

 

I'd second John if that helps get the numbers up.

 

 

I've sent you an email with the details.

 

Thanks for the support. I'm a long way from paying off the tooling.

[John in Leeds]

Hi John,

 

I've sent you an email with order placement details.

 

 

I expect to ship in about 3 weeks, but will have a more accurate idea after I visit the casting shop tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

Top man John - no messing about, looks like some long runs this summer.

 

thanks

[Tracey]

I have dragged mine several times. They're bevelling off nicely on both sides. Freaks you out the first time, but if you do not over react, nothing bad will happen. They just leave a silver streak though the corner. And you are heeled waaaaaayyy over for street before they touch. Centauro pegs are lower.

Greg

Your my hero! I'm sure your riding abilities exceed mine. I need that little bit of insurance, moving peg and nerves of pure stainless steel....

[Ryland3210]

Good News!

 

I checked in on the casting operation today. The three week schedule looks good, with castings due in two weeks, then heat treatment and machining in one more. I already have all the stainless hardware on hand. Expect to ship out the first 5 sets around April 23rd. After that, the delivery time should be about 4 weeks, depending on batch size.

 

Meantime, I'll create the instructions to make it quick and easy.

 

If anyone else is interested in being included in this production run, I need to hear from you this week. Some email messages I've sent via the Forum have not gone through. I suggest you send me a personal email with your direct email address, which I promise not to abuse, so I can respond with ordering information.

[kevdog3019]

Just sent out payment John...thanks! Just hope to get into the first batch since I have to go for a longish trip through the Blue Ridge in Middle-late May. So many twisties...so much discomfort!

Thanks for putting yourself out there John. I'll help you try to get your production numbers up any way I can.

-Kev