What I have here is a failure to lubricate!

[ShiftyAl]

Hello all,

 

I just finished a lengthy search through the forums history to find my answers, but none presented themselves.

 

On a short ride yesterday with the girlfriend it seems that I killed my V11 sport. (2000 w/ 17k miles)

 

 

We were headed just a short distance to run an errand and I noticed the oil light was on. I listened closely and all seemed to sound normal. I pulled into a parts store and checked the oil. It was low, but still registering on the dipstick. I'd heard of the unreliable oil lights so I added half a quart of oil or so...checked it again and rode off with the light still shining in my face. DUMB! (I have ridden and driven for 15 years and dogged the hell out of everything and NEVER blown an engine. I think it is THIS false sense of security that led me down a path towards shreiking doom.)

 

About 3 miles down the road I noticed a strange noise so I pulled in the clutch and turned it off as it shreiked to a halt. One more quick blip of the starter button confirmed my ears were correct. OIL STARVATION!

 

So.....while it didn't lock up it DID lose oil pressure. I was in a hurry to meet some friends so another friend picked it up for me and dropped it off at my shop, but I have yet to tear into it to diagnose the issue.

 

After reading about Staedtler's issues I'm f'ing scared to death. I do have the ability to tear it apart and rebuild it myself (though it will be my first Guzzi teardown), but I'm concerned about cost and diagnosis.

 

Someone say SOMETHING to appease my fears?!?!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Alan

[Guest ratchethack]

Someone say SOMETHING to appease my fears?!?!

Uh, I reckon, "DON'T LET THE ENGINE RUN FOR A SINGLE SECOND WITHOUT OIL PRESSURE!" ain't exactly wot y'er lookin' for here, Al?

 

As far as appeasement goes, I reckon a signed piece of paper with, "Peace in our time!" would go over like a lead balloon.

 

I don't know wot else to say. "Sorry" don't seem to cut it either.

 

If you want to do a teardown and refurb, al la Staedler, I'm sure the Forum will be pleased to walk you through it step by step. I reckon that's about the best we can do, and I'd be pleased to do anything I can meself, not having any idea wot that might be, unless a few ideas on crabbing the frame might be helpful.

 

I sincerely sympathize and you have my condolences, but I can't imagine that's wot's most important to you now. I had a Pal with a 2000 Sport who couldn't get his oil pressure light to go off when he started up in a parking lot. We talked about it and reviewed the possibilities, options and probabilities. He had a friend come over with a trailer and took it to a local Guzzi shop. The pressure relief valve had stuck open. Probability of this saving his motor, 100%. Good thing he didn't ride it, eh?

[dlaing]

I had a Pal with a 2000 Sport who couldn't get his oil pressure light to go off when he started up in a parking lot. We talked about it and reviewed the possibilities, options and probabilities. He had a friend come over with a trailer and took it to a local Guzzi shop. The pressure relief valve had stuck open. Probability of this saving his motor, 100%. Good thing he didn't ride it, eh?

Sorry to hijack the thread, but...

I AGREE that the probability of saving his motor would be 100% at that point.

I regularly start my engine, idle it and rev it up without oil simply because I am 100% certain that it won't damage it.

After all Pete and Greg would have said something if it was not true.

[pete roper]

Before those two turn it into an acrimonious hair-pulling and handbag swinging session can I suggest you nip over to;

 

http://www.guzzitech.dk/english/index.htm

 

Up in the top right had corner you'll find a box with technical articles by the likes of Greg Field, Rolf Johansen an myself. In there there is a fairly well documented engine strip series, with pctures, done on a 'Big Valve' Mk IV Lemans engine. You'll find that the V11 motor is essentially exactly the same apart from the fact that it doesn't have a distributor, does have an ignition trigger plate under the cam sprocket and it has a different alternator and connecting rods. Yes there are oter differences like valve sizes an the like but the engine is, to all intents and purposes exactly the same in design and format. Believe me, they are a dream to work on.

 

Sorry to hear of the failure, there have seemingly been a spate of filters loosening of late for no clearly definable reason, other likely sources are going to be the entire thermostat/filter housing coming loose or the stuck OPR valve as mentioned above. No way of knowing until it comes apart though.

 

Pete

[Greg Field]

Damn. If you're lucky, you can get by with replcing the rod shells, which will run about $60. I wish you good luck. Tear it all the way down and make sure the mains and crank are OK.

[ShiftyAl]

Thanks to all for your feeback and encouragement.

 

Pete, your comments are more of the specifics that I was looking for. I suppose that if I can rebuild the engine in my E-type without failure then I can rebuild the Guzzi V. The articles on that website look like they'll be my mental savior. It's always comforting to know one can rely on the experience of others to tackle a new challenge.

 

After reading more on the forum, I'm quite certain that I either had a sticking OPR valve or the oil filter backed off. Either way it SUCKS and I'm also almost certain that a polished (if not reground) crank will be in order. I'm finishing up my last semester of school right now so I won't be truly pulling the motor until May (if I can stand it).....I'll just break out the trusty T3 and ride it until then.

 

Also...if anyone comes across a bike that's to be parted out with a decent engine....PLEASE let me know. I'd rather just start over with a decent motor then have to rebuild this one.

 

Thanks again,

 

Alan

[Guest ratchethack]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but...

I would not think the probability of saving his motor would be 100% at that point.

Point one: We can't be sure when the pressure relief valve stuck open. But I imagine cold startup is the most likely time...but one can't be 100% certain.

Point two: If you say he couldn't get the light to go off, I suspect that means he tried to get it to go off, which likely means the engine endured more than a couple seconds of low or no pressure, and quite possibly endured more than one start attempt. Worse case scenario, revving the engine to try to get his oil pressure light to go off (worked for my V65 )

But whatever....I sure I will face more personal attacks for challenging Mr. Ratchet Hack.

Joy oh joy....

Uh, Dave. This is not a personal attack, regardless of whatever it is that might occur to you. It's very simple logic.

 

Your "points" above are not so much points as, er, well, pointless speculation. I don't think there's much room for interjecting what you've "imagined" and "suspected" here. It's simply not related to the 100% logical certainty of engine failure with no oil pressure.

 

I don't believe there's any supportable alternative to a simple, cut-and-dried analysis here, Dave.

 

Let's review for clarity, shall we?

 

The shop found the PRV stuck open. Regardless of exactly WHEN or HOW LONG it was stuck open (neither of which would seem to be germane, since no damage was discovered), IF the probability of roaching the motor by running it with a stuck PRV valve was NOT 100% at that point, as you've suggested Dave, wot would you suggest it WAS?!

 

Having found a stuck PRV valve, unsticking it (however that was accomplished), and afterward achieving full oil pressure without evidence of any engine damage would then seem to be a 100% indicator of cause and effect, (Cause = stuck PRV valve. Effect = oil pressure light on.) whereby his motor was saved by not running it without oil pressure, n'est-ce pas?

 

I wasn't at the shop when they opened it up, nor was I there when they started it after it went back together. But the shop (no slouches, they, IMHO, and I'm pretty tough to convince) told my Pal that he saved his motor by not running it with the oil pressure light on. He belived them. So do I.

 

Now if you think the shop, my Pal, and myself are all missing something here -- wot would that be?

[dlaing]

snip

Advocating that you can run an engine in a parking lot trying to get the oil light to go off seems less than responsible to me, but if Greg and Pete don't challenge it then WTF

 

We could test the hypothesis with your bike

[Guest ratchethack]

Advocating that you can run an engine in a parking lot trying to get the oil light to go off seems less than responsible to me, but if Greg and Pete don't challenge it then WTF

This gets curiouser and curioser. With apologies to Lewis Carroll, I do b'lieve we've found ourselves on a bit of a White Rabbit trail.

 

Who's advocating running an engine trying to get the oil light to go off?! If it won't go off, how do you know it won't go off unless the engine's running?!

 

Isn't the purpose of the idiot light a warning to shut down if it doesn't go off as it should?? Please advise.

 

I don't think y'er suggesting that it's less than responsible to notice the oil light on -- are you, Dave?

 

Where would you prefer to notice an oil light that shouldn't be on, Dave, if not in a parking lot? Does it matter to you? It wouldn't matter to my Pal or to me. . . Neither of us would run it regardless.

 

Seems to me it was MORE responsible of him to have kept a keen eye on it, which saved his motor, rather than LESS responsible, in which case he would've run it anyway or neglected to notice it at all.

We could test the hypothesis with your bike

Uh, What hypothesis are you suggesting we test on my bike, Dave, and further -- WHY?

 

Just wot exactly is y'er point in arguing anything I've said? In all of this back-and-forth, I've yet to discover it. Is there one?

 

EDIT: I reckon the following de-baffles y'er baffling posts slighty. You've evidently changed y'er mind now, withdrawn y'er points ONE and TWO without recanting (or mentioning) them, and edited y'er post after the fact:

 

FIRST VERSION:

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but...

I would not think the probability of saving his motor would be 100% at that point.

Point one: We can't be sure when the pressure relief valve stuck open. But I imagine cold startup is the most likely time...but one can't be 100% certain.

Point two: If you say he couldn't get the light to go off, I suspect that means he tried to get it to go off, which likely means the engine endured more than a couple seconds of low or no pressure, and quite possibly endured more than one start attempt. Worse case scenario, revving the engine to try to get his oil pressure light to go off (worked for my V65 )

But whatever....I sure I will face more personal attacks for challenging Mr. Ratchet Hack.

Joy oh joy....

SECOND (EDITED) VERSION:

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but...

I AGREE that the probability of saving his motor would be 100% at that point.

I regularly start my engine, idle it and rev it up without oil simply because I am 100% certain that it won't damage it.

After all Pete and Greg would have said something if it was not true.

Now as to the following, after informing us that

Advocating that you can run an engine in a parking lot trying to get the oil light to go off seems less than responsible to me. . .

I can only wonder, thoroughly awestruck, at this:

I regularly start my engine, idle it and rev it up without oil simply because I am 100% certain that it won't damage it.

And with that, I b'lieve we've all had enough of Wonderland.

 

And so he departed, but not before saying, "I'm going home now, before I fall through the looking-glass."

[Guest Nogbad]

Hacker, he MUST be winding you up. And you are biting.

 

Tell you what, it's a worry that global warming is causing the filters to loosen on Guzzis......

[raz]

Hacker, he MUST be winding you up. And you are biting.

 

Tell you what, it's a worry that global warming is causing the filters to loosen on Guzzis......

Mind you it could also be the inaccurate driving of the oil pump you have when merely using a sloppy chain to drive it

[profWacko]

Al, very sorry to read of your engine troubles.

 

This is exactly why I am not even going to start my Le Mans again until I get my sloppage plate installed.

 

I had a visitation from the oil light demon accelerating uphill in first gear about one mile from my house.

 

Fortunately, I only had a momentary wink, and the oil level was right at the top mark when I got home.

 

Call me paranoid I guess.

 

-Jack

[Baldini]

Before those two turn it into an acrimonious hair-pulling and handbag swinging session....

 

Too late....

 

 

....I'd rather just start over with a decent motor then have to rebuild this one....

 

As Pete says: They really are a dream to work on. Once you get the motor out, it's big, simple & solid, with really very few moving parts. Everything's easy to get at, to measure & to put back, or replace. If you've got the time, doing the motor really isn't that big a deal, & offers much satisfaction in the long term.

 

Mind you it could also be the inaccurate driving of the oil pump you have when merely using a sloppy chain to drive it

 

would you suggest an alternative???

 

KB

[raz]

As Pete says: They really are a dream to work on. Once you get the motor out, it's big, simple & solid, with really very few moving parts. Everything's easy to get at, to measure & to put back, or replace. If you've got the time, doing the motor really isn't that big a deal, & offers much satisfaction in the long term.

 

 

 

would you suggest an alternative???

 

KB

Yeah, nylon gears. No. Seriously, I haven't rebuilt an engine but I wouldn't hesitate, backed up with the pdf version of Roper's excellent descriptions and this board of experienced lunatics that struggle to come up first with serious and good answers while having a good laugh at the same time.

[dlaing]

Sorry, I am not trying to wind you up.

I am just trying to keep your sheople from following you blindly over the cliff.

Obviously I am than only one who read the following

I had a Pal with a 2000 Sport who couldn't get his oil pressure light to go off when he started up in a parking lot. We talked about it and reviewed the possibilities, options and probabilities. He had a friend come over with a trailer and took it to a local Guzzi shop. The pressure relief valve had stuck open. Probability of this saving his motor, 100%. Good thing he didn't ride it, eh?

and came away disagreeing with the claim of a 100% probability of his motor being saved after having tried to get the oil pressure light to go off in a parking lot.

He is probably running the engine today, so the mechanics are correct that it was saved, but I fail to see how you can determine 100% certainty of the engine being saved after undergoing such punishment.

The statement did not bother Greg or Pete or anyone else, so I am only left with the group think conclusion that it 100% ok to run your engine without oil pressure.

Where is the bloody logic?

WTF

EDIT but then again Greg used his bike as a guinea pig for oil starvation testing before and after P.Roper Shlopper Sheet.

Still I am 100% certain I don't want to run my bike without oil pressure except for that fraction of second that occurs durring engine startup. YMMV

 

Yeah, nylon gears.

Are you trying to wind Pete Roper up?