What I have here is a failure to lubricate!

[raz]

Sorry, I am not trying to wind you up.

I am just trying to keep your sheople from following you blindly over the cliff.

snip

Are you trying to wind Pete Roper up?

Yes that's not as common and much more colorful.

Are you seriously not trying to wind anyone up? As I read it, Ratch says the guy was not taking it out for a ride since the oil lamp did not go out after starting the engine while you seem to focus on the fact he even started the motor. How could anyone know beforhand the lamp wouldn't go out?? If you crank your engine up and the oil lamp is still lit after 2 seconds, would you stop it and drop the pan? 3 seconds? 5? I was convinced you were just having a go with Ratch. Which would be fine

[dlaing]

Yes that's not as common and much more colorful.

Are you seriously not trying to wind anyone up? As I read it, Ratch says the guy was not taking it out for a ride since the oil lamp did not go out after starting the engine while you seem to focus on the fact he even started the motor. How could anyone know beforhand the lamp wouldn't go out?? If you crank your engine up and the oil lamp is still lit after 2 seconds, would you stop it and drop the pan? 3 seconds? 5? I was convinced you were just having a go with Ratch. Which would be fine

No, I seriously believe what I stated, other than the sarcastic remarks about it being ok to run without oil pressure.

I had a Pal with a 2000 Sport who couldn't get his oil pressure light to go off when he started up in a parking lot. We talked about it and reviewed the possibilities, options and probabilities. He had a friend come over with a trailer and took it to a local Guzzi shop. The pressure relief valve had stuck open. Probability of this saving his motor, 100%. Good thing he didn't ride it, eh?

I read it over and over and that is what I come away with.

I am overlooking the bad sentence structure indicating that the relief valve sticking saved the motor...he did not mean that right? And I am going straight to the point he makes that based on the available information, it is 100% certain that the engine is saved after this abuse.

How many times do I have to say that that is what I disagree with and am shocked that nobody else disagrees that running an engine without oil pressure can be 100% safe.

If Ratchet had written

I had a Pal with a 2000 Sport who couldn't get his oil pressure light to go off when he started up in a parking lot. We talked about it and reviewed the possibilities, options and probabilities. He had a friend come over with a trailer and took it to a local Guzzi shop. The pressure relief valve had stuck open. Probability that riding the bike home would have ruined his motor, 100%. Good thing he didn't ride it, eh?

than I would have no problem with the statement.

There is a critical logical difference between the two statements.

It is certain that riding it long enough would have ruined it (unless the valve quickly un-stuck)

It is not certain from his version of the story that a prognosis of 0% chance of damage can be made.

If you don't get it now, I give up.

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .

Are you seriously not trying to wind anyone up? As I read it, Ratch says the guy was not taking it out for a ride since the oil lamp did not go out after starting the engine while you seem to focus on the fact he even started the motor. How could anyone know beforhand the lamp wouldn't go out?? If you crank your engine up and the oil lamp is still lit after 2 seconds, would you stop it and drop the pan? 3 seconds? 5? I was convinced you were just having a go with Ratch. Which would be fine

Raz, let me see if I can help. I honestly believe Dave's being sincere here. Bizarre as some o' his stuff is, I've come to understand that he actually believes most o' wot he posts. Once he's locked-in to his own unique perspectives, some of 'em very evidently fabricated entirely out o' highly questionable atmosphere -- from my experience, there's no logic or rational approach on this planet that can touch 'em (to his way of thinking, anyway). Many of Dave's perspectives are wot he apparently considers Earth-proof.

 

Looks to me like Dave sincerely believes he's "got me" on a language technicality here.

 

I think he actually means wot he says above -- no joke.

 

Dave's evidently found it most expedient to combine courtroom language forensics a la Clarence Darrow, as it suits his agenda of the moment, with other-worldly logic. Of course this is foolishness. Unfortunately f'er Dave, the case he's attempted to make here depends on extraordinary leaps o' Earth logic to deliberately ignore my obvious intent in my post, which I b'lieve I've made clear enough f'er the likes o' you and me, as well as f'er most any Earthling over the age of about 12.

 

I've come to disregard this sort o' nonsense as just more o' the same inexplicable, yet by now quite familiar, Dark and Purply phenomena.

 

When Dave gets to a screen that isn't monitored this evening, I'm sure he'll chime in here with an offer of a close encounter o' the Fourth Kind in an attempt to re-frame y'er perspective for you.

 

WARNING: From an Earthling's perspective, there are certain risks involved with the Remulacian Mind Meld. It may involve physical contact in the midst of what may be perceived as a dream state. From wot guests to the Art Bell Radio Program have numerously reported, this contact may or may not (depending on whose version of reality, and wot planet's rules of logic are employed) involve insertion of numerous items into numerous bodily orifices that not every Earthing may be prepared for, or be willing to go along with. Remember -- After the fact, the denials will come fast and furious. So it's extremely important to keep in mind before the procedings get underway that y'er not on anything close to a level playing field here. As a general guide, if you suddenly find y'erself flat on y'er back on wot appears to be an operating table (possibly worse yet, on y'er stomach), and you begin to notice strange, naked and spindly little grey beings with large heads and large, slanted, black, pupilless eyes preparing instruments that look longer, larger, and/or more pointy than y'er comfortable with, this would be the time to bolt f'er the door -- if'n y'er central nervous system hasn't yet been disabled, that is.

 

I sure hope this helps.

 

The eerily foreboding outer-galactic planet of Remulac from high orbit approach:

[Guest slowpoke]

I can't believe nobody accessed my prognosis of what happened to my bike. To reiterate: My problem was that I was not driving the bike long enough to burn out the condensation which had slightly corroded the plunger on the pressure relief valve. It took me awhile to figure this out but luckily I had plenty of fresh Amsoil 20/50 in the crankcase so even though I drove over 11 miles with the oil pressure light on there was no damage. A matter of fact when I took off the oil pan I got a flashlight and looked up in the engine and it was clean as a whistle. There was also no sign of damage to the upper end. My first reaction when the light came on was that the oil pressure sender had failed. So, I promptly replaced that. That was not the problem. I contacted Mike Haven via email and he suggested that the screw and key on the oil pump might have fallen out so that the oil pump was not rotating. (Incidentally, you definitely need the flywheel tool to stop the engine from rotating if you want to take the oil pump off). That was not the problem. So, I decided to check the only two items that were left: the oil pressure relief valve and the oil thermostat valve. Lo and behold, when I took off the valve(s) the one that has the small plunger had corroded because of the moisture in the crankcase. My memory is getting fuzzy because it has been a while since I had done this which valve it was. You'll know which one when you take it apart. Also, because of the buildup of moisture it had created a gelatinous substance clogging some of the oil passageways. So, when I used to drive the bike 350-400 miles a week I had no problem. But, when I started driving just 11 miles one way it was not enough to burn out the condensation because these bikes run cool. Al, this might be your problem yet then again it might not.

[Janusz]

After reading all these posts about oil pressure troubles, relief valve etc. I became seriously worried about some of my trips far away from home. What if...?

 

My bike is 6 years old and over 40,000 km but there are periods of prolonged lack of use especially during our winter months when moisture condensation in open carpot is severe.

 

Is my reliefe valve just about to rust in solid?

 

Is there an easy way of checking it?

[dlaing]

I can't believe nobody accessed my prognosis...

I think I have some idea how you feel..sorry

I can't believe nobody accessed my prognosis of what happened to my bike. To reiterate: My problem was that I was not driving the bike long enough to burn out the condensation which had slightly corroded the plunger on the pressure relief valve. It took me awhile to figure this out but luckily I had plenty of fresh Amsoil 20/50 in the crankcase so even though I drove over 11 miles with the oil pressure light on there was no damage. A matter of fact when I took off the oil pan I got a flashlight and looked up in the engine and it was clean as a whistle. There was also no sign of damage to the upper end. My first reaction when the light came on was that the oil pressure sender had failed. So, I promptly replaced that. That was not the problem. I contacted Mike Haven via email and he suggested that the screw and key on the oil pump might have fallen out so that the oil pump was not rotating. (Incidentally, you definitely need the flywheel tool to stop the engine from rotating if you want to take the oil pump off). That was not the problem. So, I decided to check the only two items that were left: the oil pressure relief valve and the oil thermostat valve. Lo and behold, when I took off the valve(s) the one that has the small plunger had corroded because of the moisture in the crankcase. My memory is getting fuzzy because it has been a while since I had done this which valve it was. You'll know which one when you take it apart. Also, because of the buildup of moisture it had created a gelatinous substance clogging some of the oil passageways. So, when I used to drive the bike 350-400 miles a week I had no problem. But, when I started driving just 11 miles one way it was not enough to burn out the condensation because these bikes run cool. Al, this might be your problem yet then again it might not.

FASCINATING

I looked back at your post and in it you said that the Oil Cooler Thermostat valve was the one that stuck open.

So lets see...we now need a Pete Roper shloppage shleet, a Greg Field aka Acme hose clamp, and now a solution to sticking valves.

What are the options?

Steel wool the valves every four years?

Dipstick thermometer?

Oil pressure gauge?

Change the oil every thousand miles to remove contaminants and make sure the oil filter is still tight???

Buy a NEW Guzzi with possibly improved, but unproved, oil system

[raz]

After reading all these posts about oil pressure troubles, relief valve etc. I became seriously worried about some of my trips far away from home. What if...?

 

My bike is 6 years old and over 40,000 km but there are periods of prolonged lack of use especially during our winter months when moisture condensation in open carpot is severe.

 

Is my reliefe valve just about to rust in solid?

 

Is there an easy way of checking it?

Check it out next time you change oil. I leave it to someone who knows it better to describe how to check it. In the meantime, remember that all of us that hasn't got this problems usually don't end up posting about it so it may seem more common than it is.

 

It's wise to change oil when you end the season, not when you start the next one. This way all the precious parts will sit happy in fresh oil over winter. If you store it in severly bad conditions you might even want to use some cheaper oil just for storing and change again at the start of the season.

 

Oh, and never mind dlaing, he's just practising for a raging battle in the new climate thread.

[Mike Stewart]

Slowpoke,

 

Don't know what caused your issue, but I rode my bike just 15 miles from home to work for the years I had owned it (4 years) Never had a problem. I too had moisture (mayonaise) on the inside of my valve covers at any month of the year (I live in Northern California). The difference of having an oil pressure relief valve stick compared to an oil filter working loose is, you will most likely still have a few pounds of oil pressure with the relief valve stuck open verses no oil pressure if the filter comes loose. You were lucky on that you were not pushing the bike when the light came on.

 

If the oil cooler thermostat stuck open, it would mean that the oil would be cooled even more in the winter tempertures, but it would not cause an oil pressure loss.

 

Mike

 

 

I can't believe nobody accessed my prognosis of what happened to my bike. To reiterate: My problem was that I was not driving the bike long enough to burn out the condensation which had slightly corroded the plunger on the pressure relief valve. It took me awhile to figure this out but luckily I had plenty of fresh Amsoil 20/50 in the crankcase so even though I drove over 11 miles with the oil pressure light on there was no damage. A matter of fact when I took off the oil pan I got a flashlight and looked up in the engine and it was clean as a whistle. There was also no sign of damage to the upper end. My first reaction when the light came on was that the oil pressure sender had failed. So, I promptly replaced that. That was not the problem. I contacted Mike Haven via email and he suggested that the screw and key on the oil pump might have fallen out so that the oil pump was not rotating. (Incidentally, you definitely need the flywheel tool to stop the engine from rotating if you want to take the oil pump off). That was not the problem. So, I decided to check the only two items that were left: the oil pressure relief valve and the oil thermostat valve. Lo and behold, when I took off the valve(s) the one that has the small plunger had corroded because of the moisture in the crankcase. My memory is getting fuzzy because it has been a while since I had done this which valve it was. You'll know which one when you take it apart. Also, because of the buildup of moisture it had created a gelatinous substance clogging some of the oil passageways. So, when I used to drive the bike 350-400 miles a week I had no problem. But, when I started driving just 11 miles one way it was not enough to burn out the condensation because these bikes run cool. Al, this might be your problem yet then again it might not.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Running an engine with a functioning pump and a "relief valve stuck open" is not quite the same as running it with no oil, low oil or an otherwise non pumping system. A stuck relief valve won't dump 100% of the pump capacity so some oil should circulate. Not enough to show sufficient pressure perhaps but there will be oil circulating. An idling or even revved unloaded engine does not require much pressure to keep the bearings off the crank journals. Hydrodynamics will do the required work.

 

FWIW I do have a set of STD used main bearings and a NEW set of first undersize rod bearings, if that will help let me know VIA PM. Usually the rod bearings take a bigger hit than the mains. The Nitriding is pretty thick on the crankpin and the first under should be fine.The engine unloads from the front of the bike VERY easily. Pull the seat, tank exhaust, intake, front sub-frame etc. Support the engine on some blocks unbolt the tranny and that is it. Save for a few wires ,hoses etc. Engine work is fun anyhow but best done off season rather than prime time.PM me if you would like to borrow the special tools too. Good luck.

[pete roper]

 

So lets see...we now need a Pete Roper shloppage shleet, a Greg Field aka Acme hose clamp, and now a solution to sticking valves.

What are the options?

Steel wool the valves every four years?

Dipstick thermometer?

Oil pressure gauge?

Change the oil every thousand miles to remove contaminants and make sure the oil filter is still tight???

Buy a NEW Guzzi with possibly improved, but unproved, oil system

 

Dave, nobody *needs* any of these things but I think that given recent problems with filters loosening fitting a hose clamp to prevent it unwinding is hardly expensive, or arduous, and it's simply a cheap and easy risk avoidance strategy. Why scoff at it? Likewise the sloppage sheet. No doubt many people won't ever suffer the dreaded flickering oil light. Probably if I owned a broad sump model I wouldn't because I don't ride hard enough. I'd fit one, (A sheet that is.) though just to be on the safe side because torched cranks are boring and very, very expensive.

 

As for the OPRV rusting up and sticking? Well to be honest it's only a problem I've seen on bikes that have sat, usually for years, with dirty oil in them but there again if you live in a cooler climate and only do shorter trips then it's entirely possible that it could gum up somehow and stick. Is this *likely* to be a problem for people? Personally I think that generally it will be exceedingly UN-likely but unlikely doesn't mean impossible as this case proves. As for cleaning and checking it? Well, if you take the sump off to change the filter, (And maybe even install the hated hose clamp!) removing and disassembling the OPRV will take all of ten minutes. No, it won't need doing every oil change, heaven forbid, but if for instance you've put the bike away for a spell in a cool climate and haven't changed the oil before doing so it might be considered worthwhile to clean and inspect it before returning the bike to service.

 

Nobody is saying that any of these things are 'Compulsory' or 'Must Do's', simply that they are cheap and easy insurance against problems that if they DO occur CAN be horribly costly. Thassall.

 

Pete

[dlaing]

Dave, nobody *needs* any of these

 

snip

 

Nobody is saying that any of these things are 'Compulsory' or 'Must Do's', simply that they are cheap and easy insurance against problems that if they DO occur CAN be horribly costly. Thassall.

 

Pete

Sorry, I did not mean to come across sarcastic.

More flusterred and frustrated by my bike that is waiting for parts while the weather has been fantastic.

Maybe I'll get lucky on eBay.

But while waiting I should take care of some of the cheap insurance items

[El_Gringo]

Someone say SOMETHING to appease my fears?!?!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Alan

Alan,

Just wondering how you are getting on. Everyone seems to say the same thing, the guzzi is a relatively simple engine, so go on, get yer spanners out!

 

I have a mate who is a bike riding instructor and he is always winding me up about my 'agricultural' motorcycle! On the other hand he too admits the engine is made from old Bismark spares! Testament to this, I am currently rebuilding my bevel box, coz either the guy who sold it to me, or the garage who serviced, MOT'd and replaced the rear tyre and rear wheel bearings, did not replace the oil. Completly unaware I ran the bike for several hundred miles with NO oil in the bevel box. Well after much poking and proding I can see the bevel gears are severly worn, but the general opinion of several more knowledgeble chaps than myself is they are still serviceable. I am in the process of replacing all the bearings and seals, but to be honest there does not seem to be any visible wear on any of them. They were noisy until I dowsed them in some light 3 in 1 oil, silky smooth again!

 

I do not advocate running any mechanicals without the specified lubricantes. You have my deepest sympathy re your problems. I ran the bike for sometime blissfully unaware of the impending doom. Although I did hear a rasping noise, I thought it was wind noise! Well the noise faded as I slowed down and dissapeared at walking/pushing pace. And I only investigated when the rear wheel bearing went pop. I replaced it, went to replace the wheel back on the bike, only to discover a nasty noise comming from the bevel box. Futher inspection of the bevel box revealed the total horror I felt physically sick and so pissed off all I could do was put the whole lot down on the bench, cover it with a cloth and went out for a beer!

 

So, give it a go and please post your findings - Happy spannering!

[al_roethlisberger]

Really sorry to hear about this

 

I had my light come on, just flicker really, a few years back.... luckily was right by a gas station, so I immediately pulled over and added oil.

 

But when I had my engine rebuilt(for other reasons), we discovered the crank was scored, and I can only assume it was from this one time.

 

It's really too bad that the oiling system doesn't seem to be more "bullet-proof" on these bikes, since it is obviously so critical

 

 

Al

[profWacko]

Really sorry to hear about this

 

I had my light come on, just flicker really, a few years back.... luckily was right by a gas station, so I immediately pulled over and added oil.

 

But when I had my engine rebuilt(for other reasons), we discovered the crank was scored, and I can only assume it was from this one time.

 

It's really too bad that the oiling system doesn't seem to be more "bullet-proof" on these bikes, since it is obviously so critical

Al

 

Here's one more positive testimony for the Roper Sloppage Sheet.

 

I put mine on over the weekend and did an oil change even though it had been "changed" by a dealer only 1000 miles ago. The stuff I drained out looked like really dirty 40wt. It was awful looking, so I changed the oil and put on the Ufi filter that came from the PO when I bought the bike in December. Added a big hose clamp around the filter as well.

 

When I did the after-test, accelerating full throttle in first gear up the same hill where I got the light to flicker before, NO FLICKER!

 

Also, it might just be my imagination but the bike feels noticeably stronger above 5k rpom's now. I'm not really sure what's causing this, but I LIKE IT!!

 

This a very easy mod and provides a really good result.

 

Highly recommended.

 

-Jack

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .Also, it might just be my imagination but the bike feels noticeably stronger above 5k rpom's now. . .

Jack, I can't be sure since I installed mine either, but I could swear that I've noticed the SAME THING!

 

This might well be accounted for by a significant reduction in windage, as explained so well by The Master.

 

First post of dyno charts of before and after Roper plate gets the Royal Order of the Flying Kangaroo award, in honor of the Oracle of Bungendore!