So sick of ecochondriacs

Frenchbob · March 20, 2007

Sorry.....was going to comment but it just started snowing, so I'm going to go into the corner and suffer my climate anxiety attack.

g.forrest · March 20, 2007

so easy for some..but it's as hot as hell here still. yet i'm flat out planting trees, carbon trading so i can use my wood fueled heater this coming winter! and burn up the fallen trees on my property turning it to heating. the hand of fate has a firm hold of the whip. and i'm yet to change all light bulbs.. :homer:

or the shower head. i'm doomed to the fait of the earth. :race:

Frenchbob · March 20, 2007

To be serious for a moment, I've just cut about eight cords of chestnut for next winter, and I have just enough woodland for this rate of cutting/renewal to be sustainable, so I do my bit.

Anthro · March 20, 2007

HERETICS in Old Blighty

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831

Hi Ratchet,

I saw the video you posted, and it seemed to me that you did not notice some issues.

The cited scientists even do the are scientists indeed they belong to a much earlier school and arrange the theory around an older paradigm. In intellectually stripped words, these scientists are not getting the money and they are actually on the looser side of the community: They do not get the grants and do not get published. But since we are more educated than that we should recognize that this community is the one that educated and formed the new generation of scientist that are actually in the other side.

There is an attempt to stigmatize the supporters of the GW and AGW. as leftists with no better business. This simplified approach to sociology should not be appealing for anybody, because it is not explanatory, and does not present any solution besides helping the less educated public to think "I am not like that" in other words is an attempt to create consensus by placing an stigma in the 'others', they are not like 'us'.

There is a lot of repetition that should indicate the level of people this video is intended to.

The 'weather theory' that seems to support the video, is as weak as the AWG or GW, nothing you can not pull from a 1950's earth science weather book. In general the video is just a bit worse than the Al Gore one.

Science is not abstract and scientific truth is not absolute, you will always see the underlaying politics under the scientific discoveries AWG, GW, and its contrary are not exceptions to that human truth. Science is just one more of the organized human activities, nothing pure about that.

Social change will happen anyways, we can only hope for a more peaceful transition, in this context, stigmatizing the other guys will not help. You will not gather any more supporter to your side by using virulent adjectives, or italics and bold print.

Lets be ready for what is coming, surely is going to be an advance and hopefully fun.

Peace

:mg:

Anthro

March 20, 2007

Hi Ratchet,

I saw the video you posted, and it seemed to me that you did not notice some issues.

The cited scientists even do the are scientists indeed they belong to a much earlier school and arrange the theory around an older paradigm. In intellectually stripped words, these scientists are not getting the money and they are actually on the looser side of the community: They do not get the grants and do not get published. But since we are more educated than that we should recognize that this community is the one that educated and formed the new generation of scientist that are actually in the other side.

Anthro, thanks for your post. I don't think I've missed anything in the video, but I do appreciate an understanding of your point of view, even though I completely disagree. You've expressed yourself well. You may well not be in the minority, as I believe is one of your points? May I respectfully point out that whether you are in the majority or minority with your point of view, this is irrelevant to science, as so well explained in the video.

As was also pointed out early in the GW thread, and I believe very effectively by several leading Planetary Climatologists of long standing and unquestionable reputation in the legitimate scientific community, science does not proceed by consensus. The sudden appearance of "Consensus Science" in recent years, as falsely applied to "Climate Change", is fraudulent, and in fact the term itself is an oxymoron. Classic illustrations of this are the work of Galileo and Copernicus, two giants of scientific discovery who were each vilified for not holding the consensus views of their day. There are probably thousands of similar examples up to, and including today.

To suggest that somehow only "new" Junk Scientists have the "correct" view is utter rubbish.

One of the first points I made early on in the GW thread was that to understand the political basis of what is going on, one needs to start by following the money. I think the video does this very effectively.

I've personally read and studied many of the scientific papers written by many of the Scientists interviewed in the video linked above. In fact, I've studied some of them for many years in some depth, as I have studies of literally hundreds of legitimate science Climatologists NOT in the video. Having a deep-seated and abiding interest in planetary ecology for over 30 years and a University degree in the "hard sciences", including Planetary Ecology, I believe I am qualified in ways that others may not be to recognize the difference between a scientific approach and a political one, even when those without any background in science THINK they possess "a higher education" that would somehow qualify them for an equivalent (or even more highly qualified!) understanding. The legitimate scientific study of Climatology today is largely ignored, and/or deliberately twisted and distorted by the media.

The "new paradigm" you refer to is devoid of hard science, yet rich in Junk Science and political propaganda. Those who've studied the rise of Nazism in Europe in the early 1930's will recognize striking and chilling parallels with the rise of "The Green Movement" and the Eco Fraud being perpetrated on the planet today. One of the interviews in the video is with Patrick Moore, one of the founders of Greenpeace. I've read many of his papers. He has a view on "the Green Movement" that is consistent with legitimate science -- having been at the forefront of "the movement" and having seen it literally hijacked from underneath him by the militant Green Junk Science Eco Fraud Extortion cabal. As you saw in the video, his position is now widely excoriated and censored by those who at the same time hypocritically call for "open debate" with accusations of Moore, once a leader of their own "cause", now functionally reversed in it's direction, suddenly being a paid shill for industry. This is a blatant falsehood -- again, as discussed previously by me and cited extensively with backup source information in the infamous GW thread.

There is no "new paradigm" for "Climate Change" recognized by legitimate science. This is a fabrication of politicians that has its basis in politically sponsored Junk Science.

As the video points out, there are tremendously powerful political motivations behind the UN-funded (largely by the US government, aka US taxpayers, some 33% of the total UN budget today, and rising) "research" money. How powerful? Today it has reached an annual cash flow of nearly $6B USD, the largest percentage of which comes directly out of the US economy, the most powerful economic engine on the planet. At the rate of its current growth, what is $6B today can easily become a $20B cash flow within the next few years, and as high as $50B within a few decades. This is a cash flow in its smallest projections that dwarfs the entire gross domestic product of all but a handful of Nations on the planet. Simple economics dictates that this tremendous gravy train of cash will greatly influence the ballooning numbers of both individuals and governmental instututions that depend on this cash flow to perpetuate their budgets, as the video explains so well, and as discussed at great length here previously in the infamous GW thread.

If you believe that "a new paradigm" somehow magically cancels all the legitimate hard science that came before the advent of the heavily political Eco-Fraud Extortion movement that began 30 years ago and is just now getting the attention of many for the first time, Anthro, I suggest that you are sadly and badly mistaken. The scientific work of Galileo and Copernicus is still valid today, as are the hard scientific foundations of Planetary Ecology and Climatology. Scientifically based truth will not be displaced by some "new paradigm" invented by politicians!

Here's a test. Do you think it possible that ANYONE at all today may have been indoctrinated under false pretenses by a political movement based on apparently sincere, yet poorly understood wishes for "a green Earth", or is there no one who has been deceived in the slightest? If it's just possible that some are being falsely manipulated for political purposes -- which ones are they? If you answer this question by saying that no one -- not a single person is being deceived for political purposes, I think you have an answer to a question that may be disturbing to you. On the other hand, if you think SOME might be likewise misinformed and manipulated -- what is it exactly that sets these people apart from those who are NOT being deceived?

This is the advent of global tyranny, Anthro. Not that it necessarily poses a great threat to your freedom or mine today, but Nazism also began as what was at first perceived as harmless and even benign in its earlier years as well -- by a majority in many parts of Europe! Without harnessing political power behind an apparently benign (but false) facade, tyranny has no ability to get started -- and yet get started it has, countless times. Is it reasonable to think that tyranny on the scale of Nazism of the '30's and early '40's can never get started again? Here's an idea -- it already HAS!, Like many tyrannical organizations having only roots today, it's a noxious weed that needs to be yanked out or poisoned before it flowers!!! I find it both sad and dangerous that so few today possess the slightest knowledge of historic cycles or ability to recognize the same old well-worn patterns repeating themselves.

I also find your sign-off with "Peace" interesting in the context of this discussion, Anthro. "Peace in our time!" Do you recognize these words? Do they sound familiar to you today? Do you know who made those words infamous, and what happened as a result of the majority of people who so desperately wanted to believe them, and did so simply because they wanted to, without facing the dark and ominous truth that lay concealed behind them? Do you know that the speaker of those words lived to deeply, shamefully, and remorsefully regret what he had so gullibly proclaimed as truth to his Nation before it was brought to the very brink of annihilation under the tyranny of Nazism? Look it up. You can't miss it.

Some of us recognize the Eco Fraud Extortion Industry and its basis in politics, while many more don't, won't, or can't, because they simply lack the knowledge of history and/or the capacity. Not surprisingly, too many adults today lack critical thinking and analytical skills. No wonder, they have been systematically STRIPPED OUT of government school curricula. History shows us that the same kind of ignorance and lack of understanding has been characteristic of human nature throughout every cycle of tyranny on the planet since long before man emerged from the Dark Ages. I find it most amusing that much of the language today from the Anthro-Glo-Warmie crowd is as senseless, baseless, and as devoid of knowledge or foundation as the words of third century witch doctors.

"New paradigm"? I think not. The fools who support this fraud are ignorant in their self-righteous beliefs of "superior knowledge". It's a fantasy for fools and politicians. The latter need the former, and must feed their flock to feed themselves. Such has it always been, eh?

As the video points out so well, PROSPERITY has always been and will continue to be the ultimate prescription for a healthy, sustainable planet. The Eco Fraud Extortion Industry itself can continue to prosper, but it can never hope to tax the planet into prosperity!!! This is an absolute scientific impossibility, my friend!

Prosperity for a healthy planet, Anthro -- but not a penny to subsidize tyranny! :thumbsup:

EDIT:

. . .scientific truth is not absolute. . .

This is a bald-faced fabrication of "the New Paradigm". Conceptually, no legitimate body of scientific study, no accredited University of legitimate Scientific knowledge and learning, nor any legitimate Scientist today would agree with this. One will only find agreement with this statement today among the "soft sciences", aka theoretical, aka Junk Sciences -- which did not exist 50 years ago. Sorry, but the only thing related to science about your "new paradigm" is it's proper definition as political propaganda within the "soft science" of Political Science.

ferguzzi · March 21, 2007

Holy shit, ratchet, do you type for a living?!

It took most of March just to read that.

Guzzirider · March 21, 2007

Yep- GW thread returns through the back door!

Guy :helmet:

March 21, 2007

Yep- GW thread returns through the back door!

Guy

:blush: :blush: :blush: :blush: :grin:

antonio carroccio · March 21, 2007

Holy shit, ratchet, do you type for a living?!

It took most of March just to read that.

Some people have spastic deviation like Zappa had

March 21, 2007

What does "sustainability" mean anyway.

Hmmm. I think I have a pretty good idea, Nog. . . :whistle:

It's becoming quite obvious to those capable of "connecting the dots" exactly what kind of SUSTAINABILITY these people are interested in, and it has nothing to do with protecting the planet from imaginary climate disaster. They're interested in SUSTAINABILITY of their extortion racket. <_<

"Timothy Ball, a former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg in Canada, has received five deaths threats by email..." (see article below)

Timothy Ball was interviewed in the video documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle at the link above (copied again here): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831

To continue the "follow the money" theme that truthfully (yet only in part) explains the raison d'être of the Eco Fraud Extortion racket -- Here's what happens when cash flow based on nothing but fraudulent Junk Science and political propaganda reaches $6B USD annual cash flow (today's rate). One can only imagine what these people will be capable of by the time this NAKED EXTORTION SCHEME reaches $20B. <_<

Once again it seems the UK media isn't as afraid of threats from the Eco Fraud Extortion Syndicate as the media here in the US. . . I don't think this kind of article (in this kind of a publication) would be published here in the US. Too many heads would roll (perhaps literally). <_<

Scientists threatened for 'climate denial'

By Tom Harper, Sunday Telegraph

11/03/2007

[exerpts:]

Scientists who questioned mankind's impact on climate change have received death threats and claim to have been shunned by the scientific community.

another interesting clip:

Nigel Calder, a former editor of New Scientist, said: "Governments are trying to achieve unanimity by stifling any scientist who disagrees. Einstein could not have got funding under the present system."

full article here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/ngreen211.xml

I wonder how many here in the US as well as throughout Europe had grandparents or other relatives who were alive when the ovens at Auschwitz, Treblenka, Dachau, and Buchenwald were under construction, and people lived in fear for their lives of speaking out. Like today, blatant alarmism followed by the fabrication of an artificial boogeyman and well-focused disinformation campaigns had been advertized wall-to-wall in the media via every propaganda technique available. Many paid no attention or tossed it off as harmless. Many millions found many ways to justify it using the very language fed to them by Goebbels and Hitler himself.

In the face of tyranny, what begins with threats and milder forms of repression always escalates into loss of more and more freedoms. Many hundreds of those who were not blind OR intimidated, but who did speak out against the "final solution" as it unfolded, suddenly and unexpectedly disappeared into the dark of night after a sharp knock on the door and a brief struggle, never to return . . . . Sound familiar to anyone whose relatives came from Europe? :huh2:

Tyranny comes in with artificial scare tactics and a big smile that turns ugly slowly, by degrees. . . .

As always, those who fail to learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.

And still , the idiot Eco Fraud Extortion Industry lemmings swarm after their Pied Piper. . . :homer:

Hey Nog - Dubya appears to be climbing on board the Eco Fraud Extortion Industry juggernaut with Algore.

D'you think Tony's fully on board yet?

Enquiring minds (well, you know) -_-

dlaing · March 22, 2007

Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...

Other seens you have already seen and images of US Soldiers raping Iraqi women...

http://www.mundoarabe.org/vejacion_y_tortura_em_iraq.htm

:vomit:

not for the faint of heart.....

...and just to keep it somewhat balanced (but by no means to justify it)

Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...

Edited March 22, 2007 by Admin Jaap

dlaing · March 22, 2007

Thank God we have Great American Heroes, too.

g.forrest · March 22, 2007

just winning hearts and minds with the promise of a democratic future,,,,LOL

Edited March 22, 2007 by Admin Jaap

Admin Jaap · March 22, 2007

Sorry David, I had to take out the explicit pics. No need for those on this forum.

FWIW, Comparing Bush and Cheney directly to Hitler and Goebbels is a bit too much, even for my taste.

This thread bis very close to being closed and NOT archived.

mike wilson · March 22, 2007

EDIT:

"(Anthro @ Mar 20 2007, 04:09 PM)

. . .scientific truth is not absolute. . ."

This is a bald-faced fabrication of "the New Paradigm". Conceptually, no legitimate body of scientific study, no accredited University of legitimate Scientific knowledge and learning, nor any legitimate Scientist today would agree with this. One will only find agreement with this statement today among the "soft sciences", aka theoretical, aka Junk Sciences -- which did not exist 50 years ago. Sorry, but the only thing related to science about your "new paradigm" is it's proper definition as political propaganda within the "soft science" of Political Science.

I _knew_ that would flex your pry bar - as it does mine. 8-)

BTW, I think you are rather unfair on Chamberlain. He had no option but to negotiate, given the unpreparedness of the Allies to deal with Nazi agression. The work behind the facade to shore up our very limited resources during this time was nothing short of phenomenal. Those few months made all the difference in, for example, recruitment and training of fighter pilots. Given that we were fairly sure at the time that this was going to be a European war with no intervention from elsewhere, political measures were all that was available.

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