checking oil level

[dp.guzzi]

Hello. This is my first post here, so I am sorry if this has been addressed previously.

 

I have a 2002 LeMans (which I bought brand new in May 2006). I have a little over 5000 miles on it. I have a stand to hold it upright and level.

 

Should I check the oil level with the dipstick screwed in all the way or not screwed in?

 

Also, I hate the dipstick because it is black plastic and hard to read. I got one from Harpers, but it was too short. Any suggestions?

[Guest ratchethack]

Hi, DPG. Welcome!

 

Spring has sprung, so it's a good time to jump in the pool. C'mon in, the water's fine. Some o' us are winding up the annual "Winter o' our discontent", so pay no attention to the "insider" foolishness. Most of the Guys are extremely helpful & the idiots are harmless.

 

The Guzzi manuals call for bike level and dipstick screwed full home. Greg Field, regular poster here, author of Moto Guzzi Big Twins (and many other most prestigious works of moto literature), Partner at Moto International (Seattle) and International Guzzista Extraordinare, prefers resting the threads o' the dipstick on the case boss and if memory serves, this is done on side stand, and the geometries work out the same (?), Please forgive me on this, don't take it verbatim, I never got the hang o' this technique. I'm sure you'll get a few other responses that'll give you the skinny on this.

 

IMHO the black plastic dipstick is a small but fabulous disaster. I can't read the one on my Pal's LM to save my life in most light conditions (after he gives up he hands it to me y'see), and putting a light up to it seems to make it worse. The best way we've found to read it is to wipe it sideways on a clean newspaper and watch where the oil blot lines up with the dipstick marks.

 

This is of no help to you, but if it makes you feel any less wronged WRT y'er dipstick, the stock aluminum rod dipstick on my Sport was virtually unreadable with clean oil until I doctored it up by flat-siding it with a belt sander and Dremel-tooled a row of "dimples" on the flat. Now it works like a Champ.

 

Nice to have you on board!

 

FWIW - Here's a shot of the business end of my dipstick screwed full home in the block (sump and spacer off, of course) with a straightedge held flat across the bottom of the block and a measuring gauge, showing where the dipstick marks are relative to the block. The high mark is 2 cm below the block and the low mark is 4 cm.

[Alex-Corsa]

 

FWIW - Here's a shot of the business end of my dipstick screwed full home in the block (sump and spacer off, of course) with a straightedge held flat across the bottom of the block with a measuring gauge in cm, showing where the dipstick marks are relative to the block. The high mark is 2 cm below the block and the low mark is 4 cm.

 

Adding to that usefull also would be to say the total length of the dipstick, length of stick I mean that is dippend to the oil sump (after screw and on) Have seen different lengths of sticks especially on aftermarket. So what's it on the one you got?

[Guest ratchethack]

Adding to that usefull also would be to say the total length of the dipstick, length of stick I mean that is dippend to the oil sump (after screw and on) Have seen different lengths of sticks especially on aftermarket. So what's it on the one you got?

Hey Alex! As luck would have it, I happen to have those measurements right here!

 

The measurement from the under-head flat of the dipstick head (where it seats against the block) to the end is 193 mm. To high mark, 157 mm. Low mark, 186 mm.

[dp.guzzi]

Hey Alex! As luck would have it, I happen to have those measurements right here!

 

The measurement from the under-head flat of the dipstick head (where it seats against the block) to the end is 193 mm. To high mark, 157 mm. Low mark, 186 mm.

 

Thanks guys. I measured my dipstick and your measurements check out. I wiped it off really well and checked the level (it was a little low) but I could see the level. So, I can deal with it, but I wish I had a better dipstick.

 

I really like this bike. I had wanted a Guzzi for along time and I finally got one.

[JoeV11]

Hi guys

I suggest you search for Greg Field's actual advice. I think he recommends checking the oil with the dipstick resting on the threads with the bike vertical, to add a little extra oil as insurance against sucking air during hard acceleration.

Welcome, dp.guzzi, from another first time Guzzi owner, and long time admirerer. It's hard to find a motor cycle nowadays that is all about the motor visually.

Joe

[Ouiji Veck]

Crazy ain't it?

This is only the first inkling of the eventual conclusion I've come to that MG like HD is run

by a bunch of capitalist pigs (suits) that have no appreciation of motorcycles and only a love

of the bottom line (money). Diametrically opposite of Ducati. Luckily we are blessed with the

heritage of Carlo Guzzi and have a basically wonderful motorcycle that doesn't require a

foaming at the mouth attitude to be enjoyed and the short comings are easily overcome.

 

Wanna check your oil on a Duc? Stand it up and look in the window. Done..

This concept is way beyond the $1200 shoe wearing hollywood dufuses that stay up

all night stroking their bean over the bottom line...

They wouldn't be caught dead 3000 mi from home with absolutely no chance of meeting

Paris Hilton... with their tent and a sleeping bad on the back of a motorcycle.

Their W A Y to Kool for that.

 

YEa...I been drinkin'....

[dlaing]

My stock plastic dipstick is hard to read so I drilled some holes in it.

Simply wipe excess oil, blow oil out of the holes, wipe excess oil again, insert, extract, read.

I did not drill enough holes for a super accurate reading, but good enough.

[Baldini]

... (it was a little low) ...

 

Whichever way you choose to measure it, KEEP THE OIL LEVEL UP TO MAX (a little above - quarter inch on the stick - is safer & causes no problems that I have found) as the V11 can, under hard acceleration expose the oil pick up in the sump & cause oil starvation. There have been numerous cases reported here, & it seems to me it has usually occurred when level was low.

 

There is a plate made by, & available from Pete Roper, designed to eliminate this problem, by keeping the oil where it belongs during acceleration. Try search to find thread.

 

...& welcome!

 

KB

[pille]

when I change oil and fill it up to the max, he doesn't like it. the oil drops just between min and max on the dipstick, and then I have no oil consumption what so ever. very funny but true. first time I was in panic because I thought the bike had more km's than assumed, but now I know that its just a guzzi-thing. has anybody else experienced the same? pille

[jrt]

when I change oil and fill it up to the max, he doesn't like it. the oil drops just between min and max on the dipstick, and then I have no oil consumption what so ever. very funny but true. first time I was in panic because I thought the bike had more km's than assumed, but now I know that its just a guzzi-thing. has anybody else experienced the same? pille

 

That's actually a pretty common behavior- especially on old tonti frames.

[pete roper]

That's actually a pretty common behavior- especially on old tonti frames.

 

Yes. It's a direct result of the ratio between swept volume and crankcase max and min volume. The later bikes, especially the spineframes/broad sump models seem to suffer from it less and it is, of course, very dependent on how the bike is riden how much blow-by and windage occurs. I do think we can say pretty safely though that it's a GOOD thing to keep your oil filled to maximum or a bit above and if it's pumping out a fair bit, (It'll be being breathed through the motor, how do your plugs look after a good thrashing?) you might have a ring-seal or valve guide issue.

 

Pete

[dlaing]

Yes. It's a direct result of the ratio between swept volume and crankcase max and min volume.

What is swept volume?

Is there a way to increase it?

Does a shloppage shleet increase the swept volume or simply allow you run at a higher max level by blocking the oil from getting aerated by the crank?

[Guest ratchethack]

What is swept volume?

Is there a way to increase it?

Does a shloppage shleet increase the swept volume or simply allow you run at a higher max level by blocking the oil from getting aerated by the crank?

Dave, swept volume is the volume displaced by the pistons from TDC to BDC (top dead center to bottom dead center). It's a constant, in fact it's wot's used to calculate engine displacement.

 

3.1416 x r^2 x stroke = swept volume, or displacement of one cylinder

 

The baffle plate, aka windage/sloppage sheet/Roper plate will theoretically allow running a higher max oil level than without baffle plate, without blowing excess oil via windage into the condensor and air box -- unless you have enough blow-by to overwhelm the condensor regardless. Keep in mind that regardless of baffle plate, a higher oil level effectively decreases both max and min crankcase volumes, making for less favorable swept volume to crankcase max and min volume ratios. Having the plate installed tips the scale in favor of less windage thru the condensor, even with higher oil levels. Mine seems to be effective. It's made a noticeable difference. I'm running a little over the "full" mark now without a trace of oil loss, regardless of how hard I run it, and I ain't seen a sign o' the oil light, even with hard launches.

 

Hope that made sense. Pete always does lots better 'n me, but he's probably got a ditch pump motor or three on his bench right now with a long line o' happy customers queued up.

[Ryland3210]

Hello. This is my first post here, so I am sorry if this has been addressed previously.

 

I have a 2002 LeMans (which I bought brand new in May 2006). I have a little over 5000 miles on it. I have a stand to hold it upright and level.

 

Should I check the oil level with the dipstick screwed in all the way or not screwed in?

 

Also, I hate the dipstick because it is black plastic and hard to read. I got one from Harpers, but it was too short. Any suggestions?

 

Some have suggested measuring with the dipstick resting on the threads, instead of screwed in as the manual states. This is because the level marks on the plastic dipsticks are incorrect. There have cases reported of oil starvation during hard acceleration, which is made worse by insufficient oil.

 

If the dipstick is rested on the threads, there is the risk of letting it droop down and give an artificially high reading.

 

On my 2004 Cafe Sport, I took careful measurements and found this:

 

First the sump was drained thoroughly, and filter changed.

Next, 3.5 liters of oil was added, as specified by the manual.

Next, the motor was run long enough to fill the filter and build pressure.

Next, the oil level was measured with the dipstick screwed in.

The level was found to be at 17.5 mm higher than the max mark on the dipstick.

This is at 139 mm from the flange. This is the mark I use.

 

Pete Roper has done a lot of research on this topic. The 139 mm mark raises the oil level by a little over 12 mm higher from the dipstick max mark, but still well below the level recommended by Pete when his sloppage sheet is installed, so I believe it is a good level to use. I suppose that logically, you might be able to safely permit the oil level to drop to the original max. mark before refilling.

 

Installing Pete's sloppage sheet would permit you to keep even more oil in the sump.

 

It would be wise to measure your dipstick marks in comparison to the 139 mm, because I have read that there have been some variations in the dipsticks provided by Guzzi.