service interval and steering head bearing

[dp.guzzi]

1. re: 2002 LeMans I had first service @ 1000 miles. Should I have it serviced at 6000 or 7000 mi?

 

2. I'm not sure if its my imagination or not, but could the steering head bearing be a little loose? When I stop, maybe there is a little movement; I'm not sure. Has anyone had such a problem?

 

Thanks

-Don

[Guest ratchethack]

Don, IMHO you're well advised to keep the headset up to snuff. My Guzzi steering head bearings have required far more adjustment than any other bike I've owned. It's simple enough to tighten. The first time I did it, I had the forks apart and took off the top triple clamp. It took a HALF TURN with a standard 32 mm open-end wrench to get 20 lb. torque on it. The next time I checked it (some 15K miles or so later) , it needed another 1/4 turn , but this time I'd got ahold of a proper headset wrench and didn't need to take off the triple clamp to access the adjuster nut. I'd have to check my records to get the exact mileage on each adjustment, but I know I tightened them twice before 30K miles. I have a Pal with a '04 LM with half the mileage and we did his awhile back. His also took a half turn.

 

As I recall, someone awhile back wanted to put up an argument about whether the torque should be 20 or 25 ft-lbs. Frankly, I don't think it matters in the slightest. I've always used 20. YMMV.

 

EDIT: I just looked it up in all 3 Guzzi manuals I have:

 

It's not listed at all in the Scheduled Service interval lists in the Service History and Warranty Manual.

 

It's mentioned in the Owner's manual, but no interval is given, and no torque spec is given.

 

It's listed in the Guzzi Service Manual scheduled maintenance table for adjustment at 12K and 24K miles -- again, no torque spec is given.

[dp.guzzi]

Don, IMHO you're well advised to keep the headset up to snuff. My Guzzi steering head bearings have required far more adjustment than any other bike I've owned. It's simple enough to tighten. The first time I did it, I had the forks apart and took off the top triple clamp. It took a HALF TURN with a standard 32 mm open-end wrench to get 20 lb. torque on it. The next time I checked it (some 15K miles or so later) , it needed another 1/4 turn , but this time I'd got ahold of a proper headset wrench and didn't need to take off the triple clamp to access the adjuster nut. I'd have to check my records to get the exact mileage on each adjustment, but I know I tightened them twice before 30K miles. I have a Pal with a '04 LM with half the mileage and we did his awhile back. His also took a half turn.

 

As I recall, someone awhile back wanted to put up an argument about whether the torque should be 20 or 25 ft-lbs. Frankly, I don't think it matters in the slightest. I've always used 20. YMMV.

 

EDIT: I just looked it up in all 3 Guzzi manuals I have:

 

It's not listed at all in the Scheduled Service interval lists in the Service History and Warranty Manual.

 

It's mentioned in the Owner's manual, but no interval is given, and no torque spec is given.

 

It's listed in the Guzzi Service Manual scheduled maintenance table for adjustment at 12K and 24K miles -- again, no torque spec is given.

 

 

Thanks for the advice. Since it's under warranty I don't want to mess with it myself.

[Guest ratchethack]

Thanks for the advice.

Por nada, mi compadre.

 

BTW - Service #2 is 6K mi., service #3 is 12K mi., etc.

[dlaing]

As I recall, someone awhile back wanted to put up an argument about whether the torque should be 20 or 25 ft-lbs. Frankly, I don't think it matters in the slightest. I've always used 20. YMMV.

 

EDIT: I just looked it up in all 3 Guzzi manuals I have:

 

It's not listed at all in the Scheduled Service interval lists in the Service History and Warranty Manual.

 

It's mentioned in the Owner's manual, but no interval is given, and no torque spec is given.

 

It's listed in the Guzzi Service Manual scheduled maintenance table for adjustment at 12K and 24K miles -- again, no torque spec is given.

I usually torque it just enough to take up the freeplay.

Probably less than 5 foot pounds.

It seems to work for me. Maybe Ratchet knows better, but it seems to me that 20 foot pounds is too much, but if the veterans on this forum set it to 20 or even 25, so be it, I will have learned something new again, which keeps happening on this great forum

[Alex-Corsa]

Don, IMHO you're well advised to keep the headset up to snuff. My Guzzi steering head bearings have required far more adjustment than any other bike I've owned. It's simple enough to tighten. The first time I did it, I had the forks apart and took off the top triple clamp. It took a HALF TURN with a standard 32 mm open-end wrench to get 20 lb. torque on it. The next time I checked it (some 15K miles or so later) , it needed another 1/4 turn , but this time I'd got ahold of a proper headset wrench and didn't need to take off the triple clamp to access the adjuster nut. I'd have to check my records to get the exact mileage on each adjustment, but I know I tightened them twice before 30K miles. I have a Pal with a '04 LM with half the mileage and we did his awhile back. His also took a half turn.

 

 

Wouldnät be helpfull to add some appropriate loctitite to the bolds so it does stay in place?

There are many Loctite formulas , I man the one that is lighter duty and allows to unscrew when needed, but protects well against vibrations and so on.

[Mr. Bean]

but this time I'd got ahold of a proper headset wrench and didn't need to take off the triple clamp to access the adjuster nut.

 

Ratchet...do you have some info on this wrench? I've looked around but have not found one that looks like it will fit?

 

Thanks!

 

Randy

[Guest ratchethack]

Randy, when I asked this question a year or 2 ago here, I got exactly wot I needed: The 32 mm open-end wrench needs to be very narrow. Bicycle headsets use the same dimension locknut. Most bicycle shops carry exactly wot you need. I found a 32mm/15mm (3mm wide) combo headset wrench by Park Tool USA (P/N HCW-6) at a local bike shop. I'm sure there are many many alternatives that would fit the bill.

[Mr. Bean]

Randy, when I asked this question a year or 2 ago here, I got exactly wot I needed: The 32 mm open-end wrench needs to be very narrow. Bicycle headsets use the same dimension locknut. Most bicycle shops carry exactly wot you need. I found a 32mm/15mm (3mm wide) combo headset wrench by Park Tool USA (P/N HCW-6) at a local bike shop. I'm sure there are many many alternatives that would fit the bill.

 

 

You rock! Thanks!

 

Off to the bike shop after work....

 

Randy

[Guest ratchethack]

I usually torque it just enough to take up the freeplay.

Probably less than 5 foot pounds.

It seems to work for me. Maybe Ratchet knows better, but it seems to me that 20 foot pounds is too much, but if the veterans on this forum set it to 20 or even 25, so be it, I will have learned something new again, which keeps happening on this great forum

Dave, I don't know if I know any better, but I do know that the many many service manuals I've read on this (including the one for my XT600) I b'lieve without exception have all spec'd a torque of 20 ft-lbs.

 

YMMV

[Guest ratchethack]

Wouldnät be helpfull to add some appropriate loctitite to the bolds so it does stay in place?

There are many Loctite formulas , I man the one that is lighter duty and allows to unscrew when needed, but protects well against vibrations and so on.

Alex, it's good practice to use loctite BLUE on triple clamp pinch bolts as you've suggested. But headset bearings do not loosen via the headset locknut backing off it's threads. The locknut is securely fastened by the center pinch-bolt in the upper triple clamp, and cannot back off. IMHO the typical loosening of headset bearings on the Guzzi occurs due to a settling of the bearings in their registers over time on the road, as with any headset. Seems to me that the V11 Guzzi has a bit more of this than usual. I'm imagining that overspray frame paint on the bearing registers may have something to do with wot I consider an excessive (half turn!) amount of free play when I first checked mine and my Pal's LM. I think I read somewhere that someone had a terrifically loose steering head that was due to the headset bearings leaving the factory without ever being properly seated in the first place, which would of course be a QC mistake, pure & simple.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

[badmotogoozer]

Your headstock is loose. I had mine keep coming loose until I pulled the front end apart and figured Guzzi didn't get one of the bearings fully seated. Using it kept causing it to loosen up. Finally the bearing was Fooked (as many of my bearings were ) no problems with the new bearings seated properly.

 

When you take it to your dealer make sure they check that the bearings are seated properly, not just tightened up. Else you'll find the same problem again in a few months.

 

cheers,

 

Rj

[BrianG]

There seems to be a vast difference in bearing "pre-load" depending upon which type bearing is in use. It appears to be related to the size of the "contact patch" of the elements. Rollers having larger contact patches than balls.

 

That said, in the environment of the steering head, there is not much radial load, but mostly axial load. In this circumstance, one would suppose that zero-lash would be the goal, as opposed to significant pre-load.

 

I have liked the practical results provided by an old Honda specification. The old VFR specified 4 lb. ft. resistance to steering head motion. That's a whole lot less than 20 lb.ft. torque on the stem bolt! I use 20 lb.ft as the initial set torque to satisfy bearing race seating. I then back off to zero-lash (by feel) and just add very small amounts of turn to the headbolt nut until I get the 4 lb.ft. turning resistance.

 

You don't want to see my system of stick-strapped-across-the-forks / string / pulley / coke-bottle-filled-with-4 lb of water.......

[badmotogoozer]

 

You don't want to see my system of stick-strapped-across-the-forks / string / pulley / coke-bottle-filled-with-4 lb of water.......

 

Makes more sense than a calibrated wrist!

 

Rj

[BrianG]

Makes more sense than a calibrated wrist!

 

Rj

 

Not much!!