Bubbling Engine Paint Service Bulletin

[Baldini]

Moto Guzzi - it's a Moto Guzzi. Look on the Guzzi Exchange forum - people running 30yr old bikes as daily transport and on the track. What percentage of Japanese stuff'll still be running in 30years? Sure there's stuff to be fixed. You buy a Guzzi & you're on your own - the factory never has given a shit for it's punters - but that's why there's Guzziology, Moto International, Corsa Italiana, Motomecca, Wessons, TLM, ... this website, etc. A Guzzi isn't run in til +10k miles, it's long term. My 25yr old 950 has essentially the same engine as my V11 - I don't run a rev counter on it cos the motor talks to me. If you want a bike that'll be spot on the day you buy it and will never be as good again - buy a Honda. Slap on an end can & a tinted screen to make ot your own - then chop it in for next year's model at 5k miles. It never talked back to you, but it never was yours... I bought a new Guzzi - I knew it'd be like this, it always has been - that's why I didn't buy a Honda.

Guzzi are good at the basics, Aprilia shouldn't mess around tarting bits up, painting cases - bare cases are fine. It's a stupid problem we didn't need to have.

As long as they make the big spinning bits inside solid - I'll put up with the rest. The Aprilia Guzzis look good but - sound as the old Guzzis ? Check out the last minute bracing behind the ali swing arm plates, the jap style spatter on the subframe welds... get them concerned about the outsides & what'll happen to the insides? I'm hoping my cases won't bubble ... but... I do need a new leather jacket...

 

Ease up a bit Al! Like me...til that bloody mickey mouse gearbox spring goes again anyhow...

 

KB, Wales.

[Baldini]

Uh oh! I've just noticed why Brian Robson isn't fussed by a bit of bubblig engine paint - 1976 Trident...

[gthyni]

Sure you get pissed by a new bike not looking it's best,

but that's why I wil never buy a new bike/car.

(OK, my bike IS new but since it was a left over 2001 I got a great deal).

 

With a new bike you

- get dissed by manufactoring weaknesses

- hestitate to service it yourself since it might loose the warranty

- hesitate to rebuild for the same reason

- hesitate to rebuild since everything is tip-top

 

On used bike the weaknesses is known and the price is lower

which makes it easier to overcome with the points above.

 

I'm with Baldini on this, my and I will probably have a long life

together. Many thing will change over time but I rather rebuild everything

then go out and buy a new MGS/1.

 

Of course I will not give any advise about the options since it not my business

but I think that MG is trying to fix the problems at last. Be happy

 

Just my 2c, hope noone takes offense.

[Guest russ]

Guzzi are good at the basics, Aprilia shouldn't mess around tarting bits up, painting cases -  bare cases are fine. It's a stupid problem we didn't need to have.

Just to point out that Guzzi has been painting Engines and Exhausts since the 70's and doing it consistently poorly

[Baldini]

Well least they've given up on the exhausts! Cases don't need to be painted - black, silver or any other colour. What's the point?

 

KB

[Guest russ]

KB,

 

I agree but I do like the black. Too bad the quality isn't there.

[guzzi323]

I'm in the "I knew it was a Guzzi when I bought it" camp. Though I love the way my Scura looks, I knew I wouldn't like the black paint on the cases. Other companies may be able to use a better process that lasts a little longer but I tend to keep my bikes a while and I knew the black would eventually look crappy.

 

Until the Scura came out with the fancy suspension I was actually considering buying an older model year bike just to avoid the black paint. But in the end I decided I had to at least once in my life own something with Ohlins suspension front and rear...

 

I'd rather ride than wash and/or sit and look at my bikes. I knew that even if the paint did stay on, it'd just show all the dirt that my bikes tend to accumulate

 

My 2 cents..

 

Johnk

[al_roethlisberger]

Ease up Al!

 

...uhhh, hrmmm, ok. I didn't think I was putting the screws to anyone, even MG

 

 

In fact, I believe that I was simply passing on some good news that MG finally had an official solution, with two viable alternatives, depending on the owner's preference. Further, I attempted to offer reasonable suggestions for those that wanted to pursue "option 1" but didn't have a perceived competent local dealer... again coming to MG's defense.

 

So I don't see how I am bashing MG or somehow suggesting that I should have gone out and bought a Japanese bike.

 

Maybe I'm just grumpy this morning, but come on...

 

However, on the other hand, while I agree and have never contested that "Guzzis are for the long-haul" ... I don't think it is unreasonable for one to want this problem corrected. I can certainly see how some folks may not care about the cosmetics, and that's fine, but to suggest that for some of us pursuing this very valid warrantee clain is "litigous" or frivilous is a bit insulting. ...sorry.

 

To each their own, but MG let the customer down, and regardless of whether this is their typical track-record, or that it's only cosmetic... apparently it's important and visible enough even at MG to finally issue a service bulletin. So I guess it matters to a significant number of customers somewhere.

 

I ride my bike as well, but when I've had a long day at work, I also like to wander past and just "look at my bke" ... and that's not a character flaw

 

 

 

And I'm going to vent a bit here... apologies in advance...

 

On a similar note, with all due respect... and I'm not directing this at anyone specifically or personally... but I'm growing a bit tired of being reminded that maybe some people just aren't cut out to be a Guzzi owner because they want the bikes to run, be reliable, etc.

 

I knew what I was getting into when I "bought into a Guzzi" as well, however I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this dogma of "just dealing with it because it's a Guzzi, and that's its character." That mantra only goes so far, and if you really love Guzzi one would recognize that this attitude will be the death knell for MG long-term if the customers don't help MG recognize and correct these problems. Character can't get you across town if the rear-brake seizes, the engine dies at redlights, or the bike vapor-locks.

 

After all, it is a business first, and if the product can't compete because of real or perceived QA issues, MG will fade away. It just doesn't have the customer base or pinache of HD, Ducati, or other arguably "boutique" brands where customers are willing to forgo easy and affordable maintenance costs, reliability, durability, etc.... for status... for "character".

 

I can deal with a lot to some degree, and I can fix quite a bit myself, but when there is an endemic issue, mechanical or yes, even cosmetic... it is perfectly reasonable to seek support from the dealer or manufacturer. I think it's actually a bad policy and strategy for health of Guzzi to just "write it off" to character, and soldier along.

 

I've been personally reprimanded on a couple other lists by "long time Guzzi owners" that have "30yr old bikes that never give them trouble, so what's wrong with ME?" ...not the bike. And as I've said to them, I'll say here... congratulations, I am very glad that your 20-30 year old bike runs without trouble, is reliable, etc. However they are different animals, sorry.

 

They new bikes may have the same basics as that 20-30 year old bike, but since then MG has bolted EFI and computer on top, changed almost the entire bike, and all the supporting systems. And some of them have been problematic, and especially in the case of the EFI, it's been more than troublesome to fix.... even for dealers and seasoned mechanics.

 

 

 

So, all that being said... yes I still love my 2002 Guzzi LeMans, and I'm sure I'll have it for a long time even after I can no longer bug MG about warrantee claims. But until that warrantee runs out, I certainly am going to try to get them to fix obvious defects, so that I don't have to address them myself out my own pocketbook years from now. And that's my perogative, and it's not wrong, just a different perspective.

 

Because 5 years from now, I'd not only like my bike to run like a clock, but also look like a million bucks. And I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

I have a 15 year old Chevy truck with nearly 200k miles to look the "rough and tough" practical role. My LeMans however, is my "Ferrari", and I like it looking as well as running that way

 

Is that so wrong?

 

So to those that tell me to "ease up" when complaining, I think I've gone pretty "easy" already. All I ever do is call my dealer and politely ask about the status of X,Y, and Z. I could have an attorney call them, or even pursue "lemon law" issues, but I haven't and don't intend to. So, I'm already pretty "easy".

 

Now it's just MG's turn to deliver... after all, I paid them over $10k ... so I think that's reasonable

 

/rant

 

al

[guzzi323]

OK, First of all I need to apologise to Al.

 

Al, I'm sorry. I probably should have thought more about how my post might be interpreted by others. I feel you definitely do have cause to be upset on a number of levels. Not only are there valid cosmetic concerns but you've been through the gauntlet a number of times with mechanical issues too.

 

I had only meant to state my personal perspective which helps me deal with the peculiarities (sp?) of my purchase decision. I did have to think quite hard before my purchase because I suspected there might be some issues. I was stuck between a BMW R1150GS or the Scura. In the end I decided on the Scura because

A) A friend of mine works at the BMW dealership and those are known for having some 'issues' as well and I didn't want to ruin a friendship.

and

The Guzzi had less that I didn't want (The BMW's seem to be overlaoded with needless complexity, not to mention that a quart of oil every 600 miles is considered acceptable oil consumption in Bavaria)

C) Guzzi's are sexy. BMW's are not.

Anyways hope to see you aound sometime..

 

johnk

[al_roethlisberger]

OK, First of all I need to apologise to Al.

 

Al, I'm sorry. I probably should have thought more about how my post might be interpreted by others. I feel you definitely do have cause to be upset on a number of levels. Not only are there valid cosmetic concerns but you've been through the gauntlet a number of times with mechanical issues too.

 

I had only meant to state my personal perspective which helps me deal with the peculiarities (sp?) of my purchase decision. I did have to think quite hard before my purchase because I suspected there might be some issues. I was stuck between a BMW R1150GS or the Scura. In the end I decided on the Scura because

A) A friend of mine works at the BMW dealership and those are known for having some 'issues' as well and I didn't want to ruin a friendship.

and

The Guzzi had less that I didn't want (The BMW's seem to be overlaoded with needless complexity, not to mention that a quart of oil every 600 miles is considered acceptable oil consumption in Bavaria)

C) Guzzi's are sexy. BMW's are not.

Anyways hope to see you aound sometime..

 

johnk

 

 

Thanks John, but no need to apologize. My diatribe wasn't really directed at anyone, or any specific post, in particular.

 

However, I was and am still put off by some comments I and others such as Fernando have received over time on the subject.

 

Like Rich Maund's comments in another thread... and as I've even pointed out to many potential buyers... yes there are a handful of known issues with any of these bikes, but once they are sorted out, the bikes seem to run well.

 

But a few of these issues are expensive to repair, so indeed we want to try to get them sorted out prior to the warrantee expiring. Then after that, they'll probably be in better hands, the owners

 

 

BTW, someone mentioned one of the handicaps of a new bike/warrantee is that one is often cautious to modify anything in fear of voiding the warrantee. While I can understand that position, and it is a safe and conservative one, it seems that policy often is at the discretion(within reason) of the dealer. My dealer encouraged me to tinker and modify from the start, and has been very supportive of warrantee claims, even in regard to the engine after I did the porting and new valves. So, I guess it just depends, and in my case I'm lucky in that regard.

 

Thanks again John, no worries

 

al

[Baldini]

Al,

 

Point taken - No argument.

 

I hate blistering paint too - what I am getting at is that we only have the blistering paint cos Guzzi got concerned with "fashion" - since they put 16" wheels on Tonti frames...It's not their strongpoint. It is a distraction trying to second guess what the market wants, I believe you make the best product you can and people will buy it.

 

Like a featherbed Norton, the heart of a Tonti frame Guzzi is just "right". That's why there's so many still running around. Maybe they're only 50% original Guzzi parts - my 950 has no original electrics, suspension or bodywork, & most other bits are modified - but they're still out there.

 

I know the new bikes have changed, all these engine management electrics frighten me - I've no idea how they work...But what concerns me here is that in chasing a market, Guzzi are moving away from their strengths. Look at the comments re oil starvation, valve material & exploding gearboxes on this forum...The MGS1 looks beautiful but is it sound, how strong is it?

 

I guess I get defensive about Guzzi, there are people who buy a Guzzi like they would buy a Honda & can't believe the heap of problems they're landed with - but in solving the problems the bike becomes yours. It's the opposite to buying a Jap when you (usually...80's Honda camchains anyone) buy a perfectly functioning jewel and start looking for ways to knock off the performance with aftermarket cosmetics, listen to all them jap sportsters popping & banging on the overun. I'm not saying Guzzi are right to make bikes so rough at the edges but in correcting the peripherals will they lose sight of the basics? We can sort out the suspension, the paint etc, etc, but if chocolate valves are taking the heads out, oil starvation is blowing bottom ends, and transmissions are exploding mysteriously then there ain't much left.

 

Al, I have no argument with what you say, save perhaps for a dealer tearing down a good engine to replace the paint - as others have pointed out Guzzi rates do not permit him time to do a proper job - regardless of how good he is, he's running a business.

 

Please accept my genuine apology for causing offence. Carry on the good work...

 

Ride safe, KB, Wales

[al_roethlisberger]

I guess I get defensive about Guzzi, there are people who buy a Guzzi like they would buy a Honda & can't believe the heap of problems they're landed with - but in solving the problems the bike becomes yours.

 

....amen

 

 

No worries

 

al

[Guest Jeff Kelland]

I spoke with my dealer today, they have seen the letter as posted by Al but they are awaiting a revised letter as the first letter does not spell out how much MG is going to pay them. They insist that it is irrelevent to me and that their mechanics are paid by the hour to do a profesional job. If I decide to have the cases replaced they will do the job this winter so as not to waste my riding time and when they are not backed up with work. I had a truly confidence inspiring conversation lasting about 30 mins. We discussed problems they thought I should be aware of, that they have been told by MG about the shifter springs and will put a new one in if they have been updated, and that they have seen throttle body rubber manifolds crack through, mine are cracked (cosmtically) and they will replace them as well. they really feel that this is a issue that should be handled to my satisfaction and insist on doing so! They will order the cases early as they know MG parts are slow coming. Must be an Italian thing, it was the same with my ducks! They take the whole month of August off in Italy, these people know how to live!!! (and eat!!!) As a profesional dealership mechanic/tech supervisor (and told them so), my sense is that they honestly cared about me as a customer and felt MG did as well. I feel pretty good about this and am now seriously considering replacing the cases. Just my opinion, but this a very simple engine and I feel that any competent engine tech could do as good a job of assembly as the factory, if not better.

[al_roethlisberger]

FYI, just noticed today that I have a few bubbles starting on the tranny as well. It's down toward the bottom, near the union of the engine and transmission. Personally, this is the first I've heard of that. The bubbles are small, but then again that's how they started on the engine

 

It's pretty obvious that it's heat related though, as even on the tranny bubbles, they seem to be localized to where the headers pass close to the case.

 

If they don't get too much worse, these can be handled with HDavidson touch-up paint, as I did with the engine bubbles until they became as big as my fingernail and started falling off in chunks <_ ....that when i gave up and notified my dealer src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_wacko.png" alt=":wacko:">

 

al

[Guest Jaap]

I'm leaning more and more towards stripping the black paint alltogether (winterjob). A Dutch guy just used ordinary paint stripper from a can and it came off beautifully.

Together with the Ohlins fork, the SBK handlebar, the LM1 fairing it'll be a completely new bike for next year. YEAH!