Need consumables for 12k service

[big J]

I dunno about your neck of the woods,but there's a guy in Dublin who used to be a technician for WP suspension in 'mericky.He does a lot of scramblers over here,so maybe if you try a shop that deals with KTM or the moto cross stuff you should get it ok.

[Guest Nogbad]

Anyone know the fluid capacities of the gearbox, bevel and forks off the top of the head? I seem to have mislaid my red Guzzi book, and want to order the stuff without having to send the wifey off to look everywhere for it.

[Guest ratchethack]

Anyone know the fluid capacities of the gearbox, bevel and forks off the top of the head? I seem to have mislaid my red Guzzi book, and want to order the stuff without having to send the wifey off to look everywhere for it.

Nog, the Guzzi Service manual spec's 0,850 liters (.9 US qt.) for the gearbox, 0,370 liters (.4 US qt.) for the bevel drive (total), and the forks call for 400 ml (.42 US qt.) per leg. NOTE: I don't know if you'd been following numerous previous discussions on this, but many (including myself) would strongly recommend the AIR GAP fork refilling method over the volume measurement method. This eliminates the all too common practice of substantially over-filling (and associated fork performance problems), which occurs when the forks are not fully stripped and not all the old fork oil is drained.

[Guest Nogbad]

Nog, the Guzzi Service manual spec's 0,850 liters (.9 US qt.) for the gearbox, 0,370 liters (.4 US qt.) for the bevel drive (total), and the forks call for 400 ml (.42 US qt.) per leg. NOTE: I don't know if you'd been following numerous previous discussions on this, but many (including myself) would strongly recommend the AIR GAP fork refilling method. This eliminates the all too common practice of substantially over-filling, which occurs when the forks are not fully stripped and not all the old fork oil is drained.

 

Thanks. Have no fear, I will be using the AIR GAP method! So that's 2 US quarts of RLSH I need. How long can I leave this RLSH in there? I would have thought a long time UNLESS water gets in, in which case the fluids would have to be replaced regardless of how good they might be as I would need to get the water out. Wet weather riding HAS caused the gearbox oil to go milky. If changing the oil is needed to correct this, maybe I will use RLSH in the bevel, but stick to a cheaper yak fat in the tranny.

 

What say you?

[Guest ratchethack]

. . . How long can I leave this RLSH in there? . . .

What say you?

Well Nog, per previous posts on this, I reckon the answer is CONTROVERSIAL!

 

This means there's a good possibility some wing-nut's bound to have a conniption, so bear with me here, I'll make an attempt to get this exactly right . . .

 

FWIW, I've used Redline MTL in manual synchromesh transmissions for many hundreds of thousands of miles and many decades. Redline recommends NO change interval here. I change mine out at 100K miles. Not that this has a DIRECT bearing on your question, but being a similar product (albeit in a different class of lubricants) from the same mfg'r., I would say it may at least have an INDIRECT bearing on it, because of the following:

 

I placed a call directly to the Redline WW HQ in Benicia, CA and got a Tech on the line. The guy's name was Dave. I'd spoken with Dave before. Now I've been around awhile. IMHO Dave's NOT a guy who gets a commission on sales. Though I didn't ask for his academic credentials, the man seemed to be an Official Petrochemical Engineering Type. Part of his job is to match correct products with applications and to refer inquiries to online tech briefs and PDFs, which he did in response to a few questions. I put the question on recommended change interval to him directly WRT the Guzzi trans and bevel drive, and though he didn't say he was a Guzzista, (and I reckon he would've mentioned it if he was! ) he INSTANTLY understood EXACTLY wot I meant by a straight cut constantmesh gearset and non-hypoid bevel drive:

 

Redline likewise OFFICIALLY recommends NO change interval for RLSH in the likes of the Guzzi trans and bevel drive!

 

Now this is just me, but I've taken precautions against water in my trans with a home-fabbed Bodge Guard hugger extension, which I've found completely eliminates water in the trans through the breather, even when riding many many many miles in downpours hard enough to reduce visibility enough to have to pull over.

 

Nevertheless, as mentioned a few years back, when it comes to trans and bevel drive in the Guzzi, I don't much care HOW GOOD the gorilla snot is -- I favor the Keith Richards Yearly Blood Transfusion Strategy:

 

"Not 'zackly certain wot's in 'ere guv'nah, but 's bloody certain it ain't doin' me no good!"

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

[Guest Nogbad]

Yeah ok. But and its a big BUT what is the point in spending a fortune on high grade synthetic fat if you are only going to lob it every year in case some moisture got in there! Surely I might as well put a decent dino fat in the tranny if I'm going to do that. RLSH makes economic sense in the bevel as I will get 2 changes for a quart bottle and the moly gloop is not needed.

 

IF I could keep the water definitely out, I would go with the RL tech idea and never change it out.

[Guest ratchethack]

It's certainly a valid point, Nog.

 

Thankfully we live in wot today (for the most part, recent history notwithstanding) STILL passes as "The Free World", and we're STILL blessed with all the remaining freedoms of choice we have before us, eh? And wot a splendid "veritable cornucopia" of wonderful choices we all have, wouldn't you agree?

 

Truth be told, Nog, though I FAVOR the Keith Richards Strategy (as I've posted lo these many years), I'm confident enough in Redline products and their recommendations, as well as in their reputation as a company, to skip a year (or even 2, depending on mileage, etc. . .), because I'm comfortable with that, because I believe this is STILL erring on the side of safety and protection for my beloved Guzzi, and because I still have the God-given freedom to do (within most reasonable and legal bounds) wotever I want! I'll bet ol' Keith Richards has been known to skip a year now 'n then himself, especially if no one tells him wot year it IS. . . .

 

D'you reckon his "well used" blood could be re-constituted and reformulated for high grade medical pharmaceuticals? No, no. . . I reckon not. I reckon it's a bona fide biohazard. . . . Just a thought. . .

 

I've got a friend with an '04 LM and RLSH in trans and bevel drive, who, good health of both permitting, intends to NEVER change his lube again.

 

Have I mentioned often enough lately that WRT wot I choose to do with my Guzzi,

 

AA, TJM, & YMMV?

[Guest Nogbad]

Its getting redline in both this time, and I will keep an eye on the condition of the oil in the tranny. Will check bevel oil level at the next Guzzi interval and get some out to have a look at it. If it looks the same then I will top up if needed and leave it in. It can then only be changed when it looks either milky or contaminated or both.

 

The redline engine oil is very expensive. At the risk of making this an oil thread, surely a decent car oil would be fine in the engine?

[dlaing]

 

 

There's no mention wotsoever of moly in any of the tech PDFs on Redline that I've seen, including at the links here:

 

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlub...mp;categoryID=6

 

 

"THERMAL DECOMPOSITION: Oxides of carbon, phosphorous, calcium, molybdenum, and sulfur."

From:

http://www.redlineoil.com/msds/44.pdf

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .At the risk of making this an oil thread, surely a decent car oil would be fine in the engine?

I'm with you Nog. I ain't tellin' wot I'm usin'. . . Like you said, we wouldn't wanna set THAT kinda thing off. . .

 

. . .but most o' you Brits know my choice lots better than most Yanks. . .

[Guest ratchethack]

"THERMAL DECOMPOSITION: Oxides of carbon, phosphorous, calcium, molybdenum, and sulfur."

From:

http://www.redlineoil.com/msds/44.pdf

Well done, Dave. In all of my reading of Redline tech doc's years ago, where much mention is made of oxides of phosphorus and sulfur (can't recall seeing oxides of calcium, also listed here), I'd not thought to look at a Material Safety Data Sheet for wot's in the "secret sauce". A MSDS is NOT where I'd expect to find anything close to a complete and accurate formula or listing of components. I reckon it wouldn't have oxide of Molybdenum listed unless it's MoS2 (moylbdenum disulfide, aka "moly"). Makes me wonder why the Tech at Redline (my Pal, Dave) could not answer my direct question on why I'd not found MoS2 mentioned in any of the tech doc's, nor could he refer me to one that mentioned it.

 

It appears that I gladly stand corrected (again).

[dlaing]

The redline engine oil is very expensive. At the risk of making this an oil thread, surely a decent car oil would be fine in the engine?

Redline engine oil will last more than twice as long as any decent mineral oil, like Castrol GTX or XL, and the temperature range of protection is larger.

Perhaps newer Guzzis are recommending 10W-60 to get a wider range of protection.

If your labor is free, you might not want to use Redline if it is three times the cost.

But to me, time is money and I would rather spend $50 on oil and go 6000 miles between oil changes then send $10 and go 2000 miles or $20 and go 3-4000 miles.

If you are harder working than me, stick with a decent cheap oil and change it often.

But you can spend too much on oil.

(EDIT Last two oil changes, I have been using Repsol Moto Racing 4T Fully Synthetic Motor Oil - 10W50

and often wonder if I am spending too much, but it does seem to last )

 

 

Makes me wonder why the Tech at Redline (my Pal, Dave) could not answer my direct question on why I'd not found MoS2 in any of the tech doc's, nor could he refer me to one that mentioned it.

Could be a trade secret that is not patented, or could be information flows between Redline engineers like ice cold 20W-50 Dino through a Fram filter. ...

[Guest Nogbad]

Not sure if you do stand corrected Hack. The MSDS only lists "olefin sulphide" this being an organic sulphur compound, comprising sulphur, carbon and hydrogen conventionally. Just because they see some moly oxide in the ash does not constitute proof that there is any functional MoS2 in there. MoS2 is characteristically grey / black, and were there to be any functional concentration of the material in there the oil would not look like strawberry fool.

[Guest ratchethack]

Not sure if you do stand corrected Hack. The MSDS only lists "olefin sulphide" this being an organic sulphur compound, comprising sulphur, carbon and hydrogen conventionally. Just because they see some moly oxide in the ash does not constitute proof that there is any functional MoS2 in there. MoS2 is characteristically grey / black, and were there to be any functional concentration of the material in there the oil would not look like strawberry fool.

WHHHOOOOOOAAAAAHHH now, Nog! I do think you may have something here.

 

I'd be pleased to put Hercule Hatchracket on the case, but I reckon he'd have to deal with buildings full o' lawyers -- and even WORSE, buildings full of GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS with monstrous long indecipherable regulatory titles -- to get to the bottom of it!!!

 

And I wouldn't wish that on me worst enemy. . . .

[Guest Nigelstephens]

I have been reading with great interest and today bought me some RLSH at £16 + VAT(WOW) per quart from a place in Jarrow (NE England). Needed the two of course.

 

I have yet to try the Guzzi but have a nice long ride planned tomorrow around Kielder forest. I didn't know that Redline says its okay never to change it. Will have to find another use for the Gallon of std Yak fat EP90 I still have. Any one want some?