gthyni Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 What does it take to do this? What about - piston clearence? - pushrods? - intake manifolds? - exhaust ports? inquiring mind at work
Guest rotorhead Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 I think they have done this on the Centauro already yes??
al_roethlisberger Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Different.... Different... much different motor. The motor in the Centauro is the same motor as in the Daytona and the new MGS01(basically). Different displacement, dual belt drive to overhead cams, center plug, all sorts of things. For anyone considering this, it's unfortunately a completely different motor. If someone has done it, I'd be very surprised as it would be some major surgery and fabrication for questionable results/goals. If one wanted a 4V badly, it would make much more sense to get the whole motor... in fact, I really think that's the only option. Once the MGS01 comes out, I suppose one could buy a "crate motor" and try to retrofit it to the V11 frame, but it'd be a chore I would guess... but "doable" al P.S. I edited this a bit because after a quick re-read, it sounded a bit curt on my part An interesting question, but once you saw a 4V engine in the flesh, or even close photos, one would quickly realize how different these engines are.
gthyni Posted July 9, 2003 Author Posted July 9, 2003 overhead cams overhead cams will make it very hard indeed. As you say, if I really must have a 4V:ed motor I be better of buy a whole new motor or a whole new bike.
Guest Jaap Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 You can put all the plastic V11 goodies on a Centauro, it'll fit quite easily from what I've heard Or look at this:
al_roethlisberger Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Indeed... good thinking.... if that's what one was looking for But I guess one drawback is that you'd get "stuck" with the old 5-speed, correct? al
al_roethlisberger Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Ask Paul Minnaert, he has the solution to that. ...true true... but then again one would have to "find" a 6-speed, and it wasn't just a bolt-on affair. At that point one is definitely moving beyond just "bolting on the plastic V11 LeMans body bits" al
Paul Minnaert Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Yes ,then I have to awser. The easyest way is to get a used daytona engine, I know one for sale for I think 2000 $. Including injection. inteam in germany has put a centauro engine in a v11, looks great real cilinders in a V11!. I looked for a picture on there site, but that was gone. It still means fiddeling, basicaly the engine fits, only the front engine hangups on the frame need modification, because the belts are needing some place. Clutch engine just fits. You are right that the origin for the daytona engine is from a 2V. What changed is the position of the cilinder bolts( more distance, so now a 100mm bore is easy), in the prototype engine they welded material onto it. So heads from a daytona will never fit on a 2v. Then the belts need some drive, they changed a lot of parts to get that going. If youre not an enginebuilder with a lot of thime, buy a daytona engine for your baby. Some people have the time and skills, see this page: http://www.classickawasakiclub.com/
Paul Minnaert Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Well if you don't go all the way, this is a pretty straight bolt on, But eaysier to swop the engine.
al_roethlisberger Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 No offense intended toward those out there with Daytonas and Centauro's, but aesthetically I like the 2V square-fin on the V11 a lot better. I'm sure I could get used to it, and it would grow on me, but I just don't like those cam belt housings, and the classic 4v valve cover. Also, I guess one could bore/stroke the 4V to get it up to around 1200cc from what I understand, but other than that option... I don't think the standard 4V motor makes all much more power than the 2v that is well tuned, modded, etc?? Am I correct, or mistaken? al
gthyni Posted July 10, 2003 Author Posted July 10, 2003 Also, I guess one could bore/stroke the 4V to get it up to around 1200cc from what I understand, but other than that option... I don't think the standard 4V motor makes all much more power than the 2v that is well tuned, modded, etc?? Am I correct, or mistaken? a 4V OHC head compared to a 2V pushrod one has the following advantages: - optimal placement of ignition - larger valve area possible - less mass in valve mechanism makes for higher RPM You could probably raise the redline from 8k RPM to at least 10k and port it so it could supply enough air to make us of those RPMs. Well over 100HP on the rear wheel should not be too hard to get.
Paul Minnaert Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 Well Al, you say it yourself: a well tuned 2V can have as much power as a standard daytona. A standard daytona with only other silencers has around 90HP at the wheel. A C-kit cam gives 10Hp extra. The daytona RS has that as standard. Different levels of tuning are posible, Dynotec tuning brings 136 Hp at the crank at the blue daytona on my site. Dynotec's racing engine is 156HP! At that level not much is from the factory anymore. And as I have seen, the cosworth crank wasn't up to that much power and broke. Big bore? default 92mmX 78mm course. can go to 100mm x 78 gives 1250cc, or with a 82 stroke to 1388cc And the looks? I couldn't find the picture from the V11 with 4V engine it was nice. I love the raw alu look of a guzzi, that's why I don't like black engines, they hide the engine. The bigger the engine the better. See this page: 4V in le mans
al_roethlisberger Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 I don't think the standard 4V motor makes all much more power than the 2v that is well tuned, modded, etc?? ....ah, well I guess I am wrong then I don't think I'll be adapting a 4v motor to my LeMans any time soon though BTW, I am not totally familiar with the 4v valve train, but I've heard that it still employs rockers instead of actuating the valves directly. If so, I wonder why they did this, as that loses some of the advantages of OHC... al
gthyni Posted July 10, 2003 Author Posted July 10, 2003 BTW, I am not totally familiar with the 4v valve train, but I've heard that it still employs rockers instead of actuating the valves directly. If so, I wonder why they did this, as that loses some of the advantages of OHC... I read up on the 4V-engines i Guzziology (should have done that before asking stupid Qs ) It is a SOHC contruction (Single OverHead Cam) which needs rockers as the camshaft is placed between the valve rows. A DOHC (D = dual or double) has one camshaft for the intakes and one for the exhaust valves and can be placed above the valves. The weight of the rockers is very small compared to the pushrods so most of the extended "RPM capabilities" is gained with the SOHC solution, the extra gain won by a DOHC solution is small.
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