More LED ?

[nose2wind]

I have a fbf kit installed and working fine.

 

Added in the front led's and no go. Just come on no blinking

 

Read earlier post and seems to be the stock signals supply suffecient res. needed to activate the flasher but not with the added led in front.

 

Did someone just change the flasher to a electronic unit to fix the problem or will resistors be needed?

 

TIA

 

bird dawg

[Guest Nogbad]

Either way will work. If you use resistors you will need about 10 ohm 10 watt (bear in mind the 50% duty cycle means you can get away with half the theoretical continuous wattage) and a resistor should be in wired PARALLEL (i.e. across) each of the LED units. You might get away with only putting resistors across two LED units, either front or rear. If the flash rate is wrong like that, add further resistors across the remaining LEDs.

 

The reason the rear LEDs work with conventional bulbs in the front is that the Guzzi uses a parallel idiot light and the inactive winkers as the return path. As soon as you replace the front lights as well, you have got rid of the low resistance return path represented by the conventional front bulb, which is about 6.5 ohms.

 

You should be able to buy resistors from Radio Shack for less than $1 each. You want the vitreous or ceramic cased wirewound type.

 

If you go the electronic flasher route, you may need to rewire the idiot light as the standard Guzzi arrangement is a bit odd.

[dlaing]

The beauty of LEDs is the quicker lighting and energy efficiency. Using resistors rather than an electronic flasher defeats both benefits

Not that much energy is lost to the turn signals...unless you wrecklessly leave the signal on inviting fools to step into your path

[nose2wind]

The beauty of LEDs is the quicker lighting and energy efficiency. Using resistors rather than an electronic flasher defeats both benefits

Not that much energy is lost to the turn signals...unless you wrecklessly leave the signal on inviting fools to step into your path

 

So the electronic flasher should work? I guess they don't require the same resistance as the old ones. This seems much easier. Just swap out the old for the new.

I didn't know they even made such an animal till I read about them in an old post. I will give that a go first.

I suppose they are available at most auto parts stores?

Thanks,

 

Bird

[Guest Nogbad]

The beauty of LEDs is the quicker lighting and energy efficiency. Using resistors rather than an electronic flasher defeats both benefits

Not that much energy is lost to the turn signals...unless you wrecklessly leave the signal on inviting fools to step into your path

 

Wrong. It only defeats the energy efficiency. The time to light is the heating time of the bulb filament. The electricity arrives at the speed of light regardless of the presence or absence of the ballast resistor.

 

And as you know Dave, as an AGW "denier" why should I care about energy efficiency in my flasher circuits.

[waspp]

So the electronic flasher should work? I guess they don't require the same resistance as the old ones. This seems much easier. Just swap out the old for the new.

I didn't know they even made such an animal till I read about them in an old post. I will give that a go first.

I suppose they are available at most auto parts stores?

Thanks,

 

Bird

 

 

I know I had the same problem when I put led's on my Tonti cafe bike, no blinking. I bought an electronic flasher at Chrome Glow? I think and wired it in just beyond the original flasher and BINGO! flashing directional lights! Nifty unit, small with adhesive stickum on the back to mount just about anywhere.

[dlaing]

Wrong. It only defeats the energy efficiency. The time to light is the heating time of the bulb filament. The electricity arrives at the speed of light regardless of the presence or absence of the ballast resistor.

 

And as you know Dave, as an AGW "denier" why should I care about energy efficiency in my flasher circuits.

No, I am not wrong.

You seem to be supporting my point when you said, "The time to light is the heating time of the bulb filament."

Yes, the time to light of an incandescent is the heating time of the bulb filament.

LEDs light up more quickly and produce less heat for the same amount of light.

You are also correct when you stated, "The electricity arrives at the speed of light regardless of the presence or absence of the ballast resistor." But what will make the turn signal light up faster is the speed of the electronics in the electronic flasher vs. the slow contact points type flasher.

He only has two viable options and one is slower and less efficient and the other is faster and more efficient.

I did not indicate that the resistors would make it slower, but you seemed to read it that way....

Still not sure what your position is on the efficiency.

What do you mean by, "It only defeats energy efficiency"?

You might care about energy efficiency if you are trying to keep your battery charged up while siting on your heated saddle, idling at a stop light with the turn signal on. But you will only save a few watts.

[gh67]

So the electronic flasher should work? I guess they don't require the same resistance as the old ones. This seems much easier. Just swap out the old for the new.

I didn't know they even made such an animal till I read about them in an old post. I will give that a go first.

I suppose they are available at most auto parts stores?

Thanks,

 

Bird

hey Bird. Nog mentioned the idiot light mod earlier.....take a look at this thread, it worked for me.

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ignal+indicator

Using this diode method I was able to use front LEDs without adding front blinker resistors. I made myself a little circuit board with some radio shack parts and laymans soldering. It worked with old school and electronic flahsers. Good luck.

 

p.s. to others: I use LEDs because I like the way they look on my bike....if I gave a hoot about efficiency I wouldnt be riding a V11.

[dlaing]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-PIN-ELECT...9QQcmdZViewItem

For about $20 shipped.

fast lighting for those concerned about safety,

efficient for those who are pushing the limitations of the V11 charging system,

and good looking, for the all the rest of you...

But hey, nobody is stopping you from doing it the hard way with less safety and efficiency.

[gh67]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-PIN-ELECT...9QQcmdZViewItem

For about $20 shipped.

fast lighting for those concerned about safety,

efficient for those who are pushing the limitations of the V11 charging system,

and good looking, for the all the rest of you...

But hey, nobody is stopping you from doing it the hard way with less safety and efficiency.

actually, I tried a similar model (as well as a more advanced time-out one....edit:a signal minder) and the front LEDs would not work until I did the idiot light diode mod.

[dlaing]

actually, I tried a similar model (as well as a more advanced time-out one) and the front LEDs would not work until I did the idiot light diode mod.

Thanks for the warning.

Maybe I'll stick to incandescent....there is sooo little time and energy conserved by using LEDs in the turn signals, and I still have not found an LED turn signal that I like better than the stock turn signals.

But that tail light offers constantly used watts, with a possible savings of maybe 4 Watts!!!! Weeeehoooo!

...and even more when braking, but that braking, like the turn signals, is only momentary, so it won't have much impact on maintaining a happy battery.

And I still have not seen an LED tail light as visible as some of the factory LED lights.

If I get ambitious maybe I'll squeeze two Truck LED lamps worth of LEDs into the Guzzi OEM tail light.

[Guest Nogbad]

No, I am not wrong.

You seem to be supporting my point when you said, "The time to light is the heating time of the bulb filament."

Yes, the time to light of an incandescent is the heating time of the bulb filament.

LEDs light up more quickly and produce less heat for the same amount of light.

You are also correct when you stated, "The electricity arrives at the speed of light regardless of the presence or absence of the ballast resistor." But what will make the turn signal light up faster is the speed of the electronics in the electronic flasher vs. the slow contact points type flasher.

He only has two viable options and one is slower and less efficient and the other is faster and more efficient.

I did not indicate that the resistors would make it slower, but you seemed to read it that way....

Still not sure what your position is on the efficiency.

What do you mean by, "It only defeats energy efficiency"?

You might care about energy efficiency if you are trying to keep your battery charged up while siting on your heated saddle, idling at a stop light with the turn signal on. But you will only save a few watts.

 

Yeah you are wrong!

 

The time to light of an incandescent bulb is the time taken for the filament to heat after the (instantaneous) current starts flowing.

 

LEDs appear to flick abruptly because there is no gradual heating, just instant light when it switches on, and no fading when it switches off as there is no filament to heat or cool.

 

Whether it is a thermomechanical or electronic flasher makes NAFF ALL difference since the switching action of both is effectively instantaneous whether it is the snap action of a thermomechanical switch, a magnetic relay or a solid state (hexfet/transistor/thyristor) relay. Believe me, the bimetallic strip in a conventional flasher is not designed to open at a snails pace and draw an arc! It is pretensioned against a plain spring in an overcentre arrangement with mechanical hysteresis such that the thing flicks open suddenly at temperature X but does not flick back until it cools to some amount below X, the band defining the on time vs off time. Clever eh!

 

When you say "But what will make the turn signal light up faster is the speed of the electronics in the electronic flasher vs. the slow contact points type flasher" you are talking out of your arse. Sorry.

 

On energy efficiency, the LED is better as its light output in Cd/watt is way better than an incandescent bulb. However, my solution with parallel ballast resistors is as inefficient as a bulb, as I would be wasting power as heat in the resistors which are there only to give the conventional flasher a low enough impedance load to sink its own operating current.

[dlaing]

Yeah you are wrong!

False

The time to light of an incandescent bulb is the time taken for the filament to heat after the (instantaneous) current starts flowing.

 

LEDs appear to flick abruptly because there is no gradual heating, just instant light when it switches on, and no fading when it switches off as there is no filament to heat or cool.

 

True

Whether it is a thermomechanical or electronic flasher makes NAFF ALL difference since the switching action of both is effectively instantaneous whether it is the snap action of a thermomechanical switch, a magnetic relay or a solid state (hexfet/transistor/thyristor) relay. Believe me, the bimetallic strip in a conventional flasher is not designed to open at a snails pace and draw an arc! It is pretensioned against a plain spring in an overcentre arrangement with mechanical hysteresis such that the thing flicks open suddenly at temperature X but does not flick back until it cools to some amount below X, the band defining the on time vs off time. Clever eh!

 

When you say "But what will make the turn signal light up faster is the speed of the electronics in the electronic flasher vs. the slow contact points type flasher" you are talking out of your arse. Sorry.

False. Once again, you are the one talking out of your arse. Except for the parts about how it works and how clever it is. Sorry, but the light up time on my flasher is so slow I could time it on a grand father clock

 

On energy efficiency, the LED is better as its light output in Cd/watt is way better than an incandescent bulb. However, my solution with parallel ballast resistors is as inefficient as a bulb, as I would be wasting power as heat in the resistors which are there only to give the conventional flasher a low enough impedance load to sink its own operating current.

Exactly my point. I knew you would see the light

[Guest Nogbad]

Typical of your impossible attitude.

 

Remulacian logic. I can see why you frustrate so many on here.

 

Would you like to tell me how a snap action switch as typified by a thermomechanical flasher can possibly ever create a gradually rising voltage to the bulb. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the thermal type switch in the old style flasher and a magnetic relay in an electronic flasher from the point of view of the load (bulb OR LED!) It's just two contacts making and breaking. On the make cycle, no current is flowing until the contacts physically touch, then full current flows. It might draw a momentary arc when it breaks, but with only 14 volts or so, this is hardly going to be noticeable.

 

The only circumstances I can think of that could make a switch work the way you say, is if it is covered in some semi conductive gunk that the contact spring has to force out of the way as it makes. So, maybe you just have a really really shit filled flasher relay.

[gh67]

guys....nothin but love for your enthusiasm....but I somehow think that posts like these are not helping solve Bird Dawg's issue.

 

Maybe we should start a "rant" thread given all the recent forum squabbles