01 or 03 dilemma

[daveco2]

I'm trying to decide on an 01 or an 03 Sport. After reading the recent post on tachs, I'm thinking that it would be worth getting the later model to avoid the Veglia instruments. Actually, I think the 03 (with crinkle engine paint) is really a rebadged 02, so I guess it's worth checking to see exactly what instruments it does have.

 

I wonder if it would be even better to get an 04 to make sure I'm well past these issues.

 

Any comments on this plus any other issues I should be looking out for?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Admin Jaap]

I think this topic has some useful info: Model/year breakdown

[daveco2]

I think this topic has some useful info: Model/year breakdown

 

 

I've already been there many times and it's a great resource. Love the pictures. I was looking for more of "so what do you guys think about this dilemma" comments. In other words, will I be fighting bad electrics (and maybe other problems) with the 01 and could I avoid that by just going to an 04?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Guest ratchethack]

I'm trying to decide on an 01 or an 03 Sport. After reading the recent post on tachs, I'm thinking that it would be worth getting the later model to avoid the Veglia instruments. Actually, I think the 03 (with crinkle engine paint) is really a rebadged 02, so I guess it's worth checking to see exactly what instruments it does have.

 

I wonder if it would be even better to get an 04 to make sure I'm well past these issues.

 

Any comments on this plus any other issues I should be looking out for?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

Dave, now this is just me, but I would not reject an otherwise valid selection of a Guzzi simply because it has Veglia instruments. I believe that despite the perceptions created by extensive reporting here of a very small number of failures, failures are far and away more the exception than the rule. NO ONE has the statistics, but I suspect that failure rates are actually very low.

 

There are folks who, having experienced a failure of a component, will "conclude" that all such parts are junk, the mfgr. is disreputable, and anything made by that mfgr. is garbage -- despite the complete and utter lack of any statistical data wotsoever from which to draw such conclusions. Some will extend this kind of a "conclusion" to the entire motorcycle. I have seen exactly such behavior on this Forum many many times. Many have bailed outright on their Guzzi's over coincidences or a series of random developments that many other Guzzisti would easily take in stride and properly dismiss as completely insignificant -- not allowing a single negative circumstance (or even many) to detract from long, enjoyable, and RELIABLE ownership with failure rates on components well below industry average overall.

 

We had a Forum poster awhile back who had a device fail. He "concluded" that the exceptionally low failure rate published by the manufacturer of the device was A FABRICATION, and that the "real" rate was MUCH HIGHER AS "PROVEN" BY HIS SINGLE FAILURE! This poster claimed that the "correct" failure rate could be calculated by the number of posters to this Forum using this item without failure (to my knowledge, no other failures were and still are known on this or any other Forum) relative to his quantity 1 failure. Of course, statistically speaking, this is just silly. It's the equivalent of having a 2-member club based on Guzzi ownership, where one member's bike experiences an ECU failure, and the "conclusion" drawn from this is that the failure rate of ECU's on Guzzi's is 50%!

 

I'm continually amazed at wot makes some people get hysterical. There are no comprehensive guarantees of any kind against device failure in any machine of the complexity of a motorcycle that I know of. If you want 100% security against electro-mechanical failure, a brick is a very safe choice.

 

Despite all the bad press, I've actually got a good thing to say about the Veglia tach -- and as far as I know, I've been thru one of the longer and certainly far more expensive Veglia tach ordeals on this Forum. Hey, the tachs are relatively easy to read compared to other analog tachs (that is, until the needle fades into obscurity -- you have to repaint the needles).

 

In the unlikely event that my current Veglia tach fails, this wouldn't be a catastrophic thing, would not strand me on the road, and I'd simply either fix it or replace it again, being perhaps a bit more educated about it now than I was first pass. Though some will say they look like anachronisms compared to "modern" instruments, I find that somehow the Veglia's Old World design fits the Guzzi, which is, after all, a bit of an anachronism in itself.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

[Baldini]

Dave, now this is just me, but I would not reject an otherwise valid selection of a Guzzi simply because it has Veglia instruments. ...

 

[JoeV11]

One thing you may want to consider is electrical relay problems in the older bike. It is well documented in this forum, and would only require buying later relays to update the earlier ones. You'll have to consider the price difference in the two bikes you're looking at to make a valid comparison, but 2002 seemed to be a year they made a lot of upgrades. I consider myself lucky to have found a leftover '04 last year. Joe

[Tom M]

I've already been there many times and it's a great resource. Love the pictures. I was looking for more of "so what do you guys think about this dilemma" comments. In other words, will I be fighting bad electrics (and maybe other problems) with the 01 and could I avoid that by just going to an 04?

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

I think you need to ride both versions and decide if you like the quicker steering '01 red frame better than the longer '03 black frame. I wouldn't be too worried that the '01 will be less reliable than the newer bike. Either one could give you problems or both could be trouble free. Another consideration is comfort. I believe the '01 has lower clipons than the 03.

 

There was a gearbox recall on the early sports too. I don't know if it effected the '01s but I'm sure you can find the info here.

 

Good luck!

[Guest Nogbad]

There is NOTHING wrong with the earlier "short frame" V11. The relay problem if it happens to you is easily sorted, and probably has been by now on any 00/01. It is easy to check that your tranny recall has been done as well.

 

My 00 V11 has so far been a paragon of reliability, even with its original Siemens relays, although being a UK bike the main culprit relay does not suffer the indignity of having to switch the AHO current and this may be the reason for its demise in the US.

 

It starts well, runs as well as any other standard V11 and handles pretty well. The faster steering on the earlier V11 may even suit you better if your experience has been on sportsbikes.

 

Added to all this is the sheer VALUE of the earlier bike. Those previous owners have taken the lion's share of the depreciation hit, and have probably sorted the bike's teething troubles ready for YOU to enjoy!

[Skeeve]

...

In the unlikely event that my current Veglia tach fails, this wouldn't be a catastrophic thing, would not strand me on the road, and I'd simply either fix it or replace it again, being perhaps a bit more educated about it the next time. Though some will say they look like antique anachronisms compared to "modern" instruments, I find that somehow the Veglia's Old World design fits the Guzzi, which is, after all, a bit of an antique anachronism itself.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

 

Just out of curiosity: unless the speedo goes bad [so you're left using the tach & knowledge of gears, ie, "5(k-rpm)x5(th gear) @ 55(mph)" for my old XSEleven Yamaha to judge speed (the speedo worked but was unreadable @ night on that bike)], what do we need a tach for anyway? The ECU has a built in rev limiter, doesn't it? Rev it til it bangs off the ceiling, shift, repeat... of course, if you're into that sort of thing, you're better served w/ riding a J-brand hyperbike anyway!

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .what do we need a tach for anyway?

While there's an argument to be made that if there's any bike that doesn't need a tach, it's the V11, a similar argument can be made that if there's any bike that doesn't need 6 cogs, it's the V11.

 

Sure we could do fine without either, but I'm mighty thankful to have both. Of course, these two features are very closely inter-related.

 

Many riders don't use the tach at all. I know many women car drivers who've driven their entire lives with a tach prominently occupying large, grade-A prime dashboard real estate squarely in front of them -- without the faintest clue wot a tach is, or why anyone would ever pay the slightest attention to it. Most don't even seem the slightest bit curious. BTW -- ever notice that some women evidently CANNOT be taught to understand the concept of RPM, let alone the principles behind gear reduction and the variable relationship between engine RPM and speed??

 

This, I presume, explains why we get so much mileage out of the terms, "short shift", aka "lugging".

 

I reckon I've relied on tachs as a habit since the first bike I got that had one. During the time I was without my Veglia I missed it a great deal. Whether driving a car or moto, in off-throttle conditions, a quick glance at the tach to determine if a downshift would better match the need for acceleration before pouring on the coal is a well-worn reflex and I don't even think about it. I think the neural pathway's hard-wired from the eye thru the spinal cord without need to pass thru the cortex for analysis.

 

I don't care wot anyone says, no one can do anywhere near as accurate and effective a job upshifting or downshifting without the use of a tach. I reckon that's why they're considered mandatory in most kinds of racing -- motocross being one exception, where a quick glance down at a tach, away from wot's comin' up hard and fast, could be a race and/or serious career-shortening experience.

 

On the Guzzi, I've imprinted the straight-up needle position on the Veglia at 5.5K RPM in my mind, and I suppose I make thousands of quick decisions on cog selection based on where needle is relative to straight up, where the motor makes max torque.

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV

 

The ECU has a built in rev limiter, doesn't it? Rev it til it bangs off the ceiling, shift, repeat... of course, if you're into that sort of thing, you're better served w/ riding a J-brand hyperbike anyway!

My sentiments exactly.

[Baldini]

...I don't care wot anyone says, no one can do anywhere near as accurate and effective a job upshifting or downshifting without the use of a tach....

 

oh dear...I haven't had a tacho on the Tonti for years, only have a speedo cos of speed limits on road...to me dials are a distraction - Guzzi motor talks direct...shifting - no problem - for me it's all about feel & sound, maybe cos I've got so used to the same bike over so long (25yrs) but i just don't feel I need one, road or trackday. As to racing, well the last thing I ever wanted to be doing was looking at gauges but I guess if you're not that familiar with the bike or developing/tuning it...

 

KB

[Guest ratchethack]

oh dear...I haven't had a tacho on the Tonti for years, only have a speedo cos of speed limits on road...to me dials are a distraction - Guzzi motor talks direct...shifting - no problem - for me it's all about feel & sound, maybe cos I've got so used to the same bike over so long (25yrs) but i just don't feel I need one, road or trackday. As to racing, well the last thing I ever wanted to be doing was looking at gauges but I guess if you're not that familiar with the bike or developing/tuning it...

 

KB

I've got a big single trailie without a tach. I sure wish it had one. On many a long uphill pull in the top cogs, not knowing for sure which side of the torque peak the motor's operating, I find myself "hunting" with the shifter until I figure it out. Often, by the time I've shifted up or down and back again, I've lost momentum and a shorter cog becomes mandatory anyway, 'cause I've lost an opportunity I didn't know I had to tap power I wasn't any too sure was coming up in the power band. . .

 

But then, I reckon there are a great walloping many who're far far better riders than myself who have both far more experience and a great deal more skill. I guess there are some who automatically just know where their engines are operating relative to the power band at all times.

 

If Formula One drivers were any good, I reckon they wouldn't all need tachs either. . . .

[Baldini]

I think it's just how familiar you are with whatever you're riding.

 

KB

[Guzzirider]

I think the Vagueliar intruments are great- insurance against speeding tickets as they overread so much!

 

And if you think you are a few hundreds miles late with your oil change- chances are you are not, because you haven't really done that many miles.

 

No tacho on my Jackal and I have never missed it. Too busy looking where I am going to look down all the time!