Warm Fuzzies?

[Guest ratchethack]

Gents, it seems that once again, I've entered a "target-rich environment" and have allowed myself to become distracted by whopping "windows of opportunity" opening on all sides.

 

With apologies for contributing to the hijacking of this thread, let's review:

 

1. The opening post in this thread expressed wot I've found to be a common "surprise discovery" for the uninitiated -- the V-11 Guzzi is NOT COMPETITIVE with the current crop of "performance hyperbikes" in any performance category measurable -- not even remotely close. To state this is NOT somehow besmirching the name of Guzzi, my friends -- it's simply a fact! If a rider has become generally conditioned to equate hyper-performance with the VALUE of a motorcycle, a V-11 is simply not a good choice. In the best of cases, with a V-11 this lack of understanding may wind up in a disappointment that can be lived with. After all -- those who have a well-informed and sincere objective of chasing hyperbikes usually have enough knowledge to purchase something resembling a high-performance hyperbike in the first place! In the WORST of cases, a lack of understanding here can be very dangerous indeed.

 

2. To suggest that a V-11 IS, or CAN BE competitive with the current crop of hyperbikes from any performance standpoint imaginable is patently absurd. Then, to further suggest that shoe-horning entirely different motors into them and at the same time shaving off 150 lbs. -- and that this can overcome enough of the horrendous power-to-weight disparity that the V-11 suffers from relative to the aforementioned (not to mention the handling disparities), are simply ridiculous ideas, not feasible for road use. I emphasize this, Gents, because there are NO EXAMPLES of this that exist ANYWHERE. NOTE: even F1 BOT racing bikes are NOT COMPETITIVE performance-wise against similarly prepped multi hyperbikes, and there are NO competitive F1 BOT racing Guzzi's that much resemble a V-11 (neither chassis, nor motor)!

 

3. Now there are those whose response to the above 2 points, however painfully obvious these points would seem to most moderately well-informed perspectives, is to insist that this is "narrow-minded" thinking, with the implication that this is merely opinion, and that it's a WRONG opinion, at that.

 

I submit that if the above is wot passes for being "open minded", this is not only foolish, but potentially very dangerous, as well as irresponsible. More than once, I've encountered the tragic results of riders who, evidenty lacking experience and knowledge, put themselves in harm's way and pay a heavy price, evidently imagining themselves impervious to the laws of Physics -- or who are simply not familiar enough with the capabilities of their motorcycles to avoid seriously risking their lives and the lives of others. Believing that your machine is capable of wot is ISN'T is dangerous, as well as foolish. On the road or track, ignorance is NO EXCUSE for not obeying the laws of Physics!

 

If one goes off chasing hyperbikes with a V-11 Guzzi (highly modified or not), may I suggest that this is an extremely foolish and unwise idea for all but (possibly) the <1% Professional, and can very quickly put most riders far (in some cases fatally far) past their abilities.

 

I have seen up close wot happens when a rider with a heavier bike "believes" he can keep up with a lesser rider on a much lighter and better-handling bike by out-braking him. It's not something I'd wish on anyone, but it IS the kind of thing that foolish indulgence in poorly informed dreaming of some imaginary glory encourages.

 

Last evening a rider was killed on one of my favorite back-coutry roads when he over-cooked a curve, tucked the front end and low-sided it, putting him under the wheels of an oncoming utility truck.

 

EDIT: Another rider was killed the following day on another favorite road not far from where I live!

 

This kind of thing happens on an increasingly frequent basis on many of my favorite riding roads all Summer long. Let's not encourage foolish and dangerous behavior here by perpetuating baseless fantasies.

 

The most dangerous breed of pretend Boy Racer is the kind who's convinced himself that he can do things with his motorcycle that neither he nor his motorcyle are capable of.

 

Please know your machine's limitations at least as well as you know your own -- and ride safely, well within both, Gents.

[Guest h8chains]

I find my 04 V11 Le Mans not as easy as my 05 Triumph Thruxton doing the twisties, however I still prefer the V11 because of it's overall performance.

 

A day at the track improved my skills and riding with the socal guzzi riders (these guys are fast!) helped me pushed myself a little more, unlike riding alone. Every ride, I do it a "little harder". We have so many canyons here that every opportunity I get, I ride. This is how confidence and skill are developed and get to know bike well.

[dlaing]

snip

While I appreciate and agree with your words cautioning one to ride carefully and know the limits of your motorcycle, the rest is hogwash.

A Guzzi is a fine bike that CAN go fast, especially when modified.

LET IT BE A WARNING:

If one goes off chasing V-11 Guzzi, may I suggest that this is an extremely foolish and unwise idea for all but (possibly) the

Here are some numbers comparing sport tourers

 

Guzzi V11 Dry Weight ~490 pounds

sport touring

BMW R1100 ~490 newer beemers have been getting lighter

Honda CBR 1100 XX Super Blackbird ~490

Honda VFR ~470

Yamaha FJ 1200 500++

Honda ST 1300 600+++

Sport

The Japanese four liter sport bikes weigh

~375-425

The 600s even less.

FWIW a Ghezzi and Brian has a dry weight a little under 400

The MGS01 is a little under 430

But those are not V11s. To get a V11 into that weight category, if it is even possible, you might start with forged wheels, a lighter battery, and a lighter rear subframe. Maybe an aluminum mono posto.

If losing weight is your goal stay away from a corbin saddle as they are heavy, and anything with gel will probably also be heavy.

In any case, if the Japanese bikes you are riding with are riding "the pace", you should not have trouble keeping up, right?

Just don't let them see you violate the Pace rules and tuck to go faster on the straights, or hang out to keep your pegs from scraping, or fail set your line to avoid oncoming traffic in your lane...sarcasm intended...

[Guest ratchethack]

While I appreciate and agree with your words cautioning one to ride carefully and know the limits of your motorcycle, the rest is hogwash.

A Guzzi is a fine bike that CAN go fast, especially when modified.

Hmmmmm. Seems that some of the most fantastic hallucinations yet ain't quite happy with the idea of a stake thru the heart. . . .

 

Dave.

 

No one has suggested that a V-11 can't "go fast" -- modified or not. To quantify this vague and amorphous statement with a value, our V-11's can double the national speed limit here in the US (which some of us, myself included, tend to exceed from time to time) -- and quite comfortably enough at that. For most of us, I suspect that this is "fast enough". But wot does this have to do with any part of this thread or any part of the preceeding discussion, and is there a point that you wish to make by stating that Guzzi's "CAN go fast"?

 

Seems it might be necessary to review again for clarity, lest this discussion go careening off into the wild blue yonder again with your light, fluffy, yet ever-so-irrelevant dream-clouds. . .

 

The opening post in this thread seemed to indicate surprise that the poster was having trouble keeping up with "modern sport Japanese bikes" with his new (new to him, that is) V-11.

 

I'd pointed out that V-11's ARE NOT COMPETITIVE performance-wise with the current crop of performance hyperbikes. This is a statement that I suspect not many of us have much trouble with, Dave. I'd been pretty insistent and confident with this statement, adding that V-11's aren't ANYWHERE CLOSE to this level of performance, and had illustrated my point using power-to-weight comparisons, whereby a V-11 falls short of (for example) a R-1 by a whopping 270% power-to-weight ratio. I'd also cited the assertions of a highly respected, world-renowned Guzzi engine expert and racing motor builder, who has repeatedly stated on this Forum that 100 rwhp or above on a V-11 motor is NOT FEASIBLE in any state of tune suitable for the road which will not self-destruct in relatively short order.

 

You seemed to strongly disagree with all of the above, Dave -- without offering any valid arguments wotsoever against these statements. Instead, you claimed (without credible evidence of any kind) that you can "bore them, stroke them, anyway you want to" (or something to that effect), as if to suggest that ANYTHING YOU CAN DREAM UP up in terms of performance is achievable with the V-11! Your preposterous assertion seems to be that a V-11 is somehow capable of performing at the same level with current hyperbikes.

 

THEN, as if this had anything to do with V-11's, you brought MGS-01 and Big Bore racing motors into the discussion, as if this were somehow some kind of support to your argument! At that point I found it painfully necessary to reel you in a (just a little ) by pointing out that these are NOT V-11's. . .

 

Now it seems that your confusion is not limited to confusing power outputs of different motors with the V-11!

 

Now you've brought in a list of non-hyperbike motorcycles and their weights, presumably for comparison purposes, as if this has anything to do with the topic, or as if it were bringing any insight into the discussion thus far -- and as if this were somehow support for your argument -- just as you did by bringing in entirely different motors than the V-11!

 

I don't see where you've presented anything either relevant or credible (or even close) that would support your apparent dream fantasy that a V-11 is, or can be competitive performance-wise with any of the current preformance hyperbikes available, Dave. Take the 4 bikes represented by the 4 torque curves on the comparison torque chart that YOU brought to this thread, for example.

 

I b'lieve you're STILL quite seriously confused, Dave.

 

If you believe that YOUR V-11 GUZZI is or will be (at some point in the future) capable of power, acceleration and handling at the level of the 4 bikes on your torque chart posted earlier in this thread (as you STILL seem to be insisting), I'd be very interested to know ON WHAT BASIS IN REALITY you've come to that conclusion?!?!?!

 

Please try very hard NOT to use wishful thinking, or the illogic of, "it COULD BE, it SHOULD BE, I WANT IT TO BE , therefore it IS! " as a foundation for wot you believe to be true!

 

I'd eagerly welcome any clear, solid, credibly documented evidence for your beliefs, please. Any examples that this has ever been done successfully would suffice -- the more the better.

 

LET IT BE A WARNING:

If one goes off chasing V-11 Guzzi, may I suggest that this is an extremely foolish and unwise idea for all but (possibly) the <1% Professional, and can very quickly put most riders far (in some cases fatally far) past their abilities.

Hmm. I'm sure there's either a joke in here somewhere, or some point to be made, but I'm afraid I just don't get it. . .

 

The local woods are full o' the latest hyperbike performance machinery with all grades and persuasions of talent and lack thereof riding 'em, who seem to seek out the likes of V-11's for purposes of handily dispatching them for bragging rights. This is wot many of 'em seem to live for. I tend to pull over and let 'em go right by. Wot do YOU do, Dave?

 

Face it, Dave -- The only reason a V-11 could EVER keep up with any modern performance hyperbike on most kinds of roads imaginable is if the rider of same is far below the level of talent of the rider of the V-11 -- or if he's just not interested in making a contest out of it -- more or less like myself, for example -- a dedicated Road Geez, who's for the most part blissfully happy not feeling compelled to "race" anyone at any time.

 

Have you EVER come upon a credibly talented rider on a newer performance hyperbike that you were both motivated to pursue -- and were able to keep up with (let alone overcome) with your V-11, Dave?

 

Enquiring minds (well, you know). . .

[dlaing]

What makes a bike go fast is mostly rider.

Learning to ride a Guzzi fast takes longer than other bikes.

Track school will help Zagato keep up with the "modern sport Japanese bikes"

But yes, assuming riders are of equal ability, and the "competition" is are sport bikes typically ranging from 375 to 475 pounds and anywhere from 60 to 160HP "competition",as if they are competing on the street...Nobody said Zagato was competing with them, he is just trying to keep up with them, on the street, not the track.

A stock V11 is not much slower than a VFR on most roads.

The VFR has a slight weight advantage, a big HP advantage, unsprung weight advantage at rear. But the Guzzi has a nicer power band and the direction of the engine turning does not increase the gyrosopic rigidness the way a transversally mounted bike does. This gives the Guzzi an advantage quick switch backs.

If Zagato is losing ground on them in the straights, he needs more power, and for that he can either make small improvements, or he can think big and bore the engine out with the aforementioned bigbore kit which is all standard hot-rodding technique except for the conversion to water cooling. Sorry if that breaks your narrow minded rules

But with the power that that conversion allows, I don't there is not a stock Japanese bike that could "compete" with that in a straight line, until you hit redline at about 150MPH.

But now the bike would be up in weight so you would have to drop the weight.

The rear subframe is an excellent place to start.

Next would be the wheels.

Ceramic brake rotors and bearings.

Titanium wherever possible.

Billet and or forged brake components.

It might not be a bad idea to redo the pork chops and triple clams in billet and maybe the rear brake carrier.

Kevlar brake lines.

You could mill out some of the rear drive to save a few grams as JediOne did.

You probably could not put in lighter battery because the engine modifications will probably require a lot of juice.

Plastic headlight.

Replace the ECU, speedo and tach with that one that Paul M. uses.

How much will that drop the weight? I don't know, Zebulon's G&B weighs about 425#wet. And Paul's bike is sure lean.

So it is possible to get the weight down to that of a heavier "hyperbike" if you have the time, money, resources, etc.

And it is possible to make it MORE powerful.

Combined, that is certainly "competive"

Not to mention, after the investment, the brakes and suspension are superior to the "modern sport Japanese bikes".

I am spending enough time and money just trying to keep it running, and track school is the best investment I could make to go faster and safer.

The limitation is mostly rider.

Put me on an R1 for a few months and I'll get from point A to point B only marginally faster. But put me on a heavilly modified Guzzi and you will get about the same result, but the bike would be much more pleasurable....and that is what a silk purse is all about.

[Guest ratchethack]

Sorry if that breaks your narrow minded rules

Dave. Your foolish dreams are not capable of breaking any rules.

 

I don't have any "rules" not provided by Physics, common sense, and an awareness of the difference between reality and fantasy, Dave. If you believe that you're not bound by such "rules", Dave, your notion of "open mindedness" would seem to indicate that you're not well tethered to reality.

 

I've repeatedly asked you for credible EVIDENCE of the existence of a V-11 in anything near the same performance category with the current crop of performance hyperbikes. You have yet to provide ANY whatsoever.

 

A photo of YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE of a non-V-11 (above) is not helping your case. . . [sigh]. . .

 

Instead, you've repeatedly fallen back on NOTHING more than, "it COULD BE, it SHOULD BE, I WANT IT TO BE , therefore it IS!" as a basis for wot you consider reality.

 

If you truly believe wot you've posted, there's no telling wot other horrendous follies you might've fallen for.

 

Please ride extra carefully. I would particularly caution you against the danger of believing your Guzzi is (or ever can be) capable of keeping up with performance hyperbikes, and the false idea that it's capable of performing in ways that no other V-11 has ever demonstrated.

 

I cannot deal with people who are not bound by reason or logic, whose sense of reality is based in nothing more than wishful thinking. I give up.

[badmotogoozer]

 

blah, blah, blah... Respect Mah Authority!... blah, blah, blah...

 

 

I know what you're saying Dave. It is a valid point. On most roads with most riders, obeying most of the rules, a Guzzi can hang with the sport bikes. But it does lose out on the straights. On the track - forget it! The biggest factor is rider ability. Me on the Guzzi can leave SOME riders on crotch rockets in the dust while at the same time SOME guys (and gals!) on old iron will eat me.

 

Before he blew his motor, Staedtler didn't seem to have any problem hanging with his sport bike buddies.

 

Step one - get your suspension sorted and the bike maximized (TPS, balance etc.). Step two - become the best rider you can be on your Guzzi. If still not happy, start throwing gobs of money at the Guzzi. There is very little in life that throwing great gobs of money at can't fix.

 

cheers,

 

Rj

[rocker59]

Can anyone recommend a good track day event near Chicago? I want to improve my riding skills apart from any safety course. One concern though is possibility of making a mistake and damaging the bike to where I can't ride. Last year I was without the bike for weeks while parts were being looked for and acquired.

 

I haven't ridden too much this spring. Chicago isn't so fun to ride around in with lunatic red light runners and NONE of the streets have timed lights, so it is constant stop and go. I live 11 miles from work in the city. I counted 43 stoplights on my commute. O.k. some I caught green, but 80% or more you don't. Its maddening.

 

I'm thinking of getting a small trailer that a FWD honda civic could pull, so I could get the heck out of the congestion and into the countryside without the headache of doing it on the goose.

 

Check the Sportbike Track Time shedule. Great bunch of folks. I did one of thiers at Barber's.

 

Road America at Elkhart Lake, WI isn't too far... and Autobahn Country Club is near Joliet...

 

http://www.sportbiketracktime.com/schedule_midwest2007.html

[Baldini]

...V-11's ARE NOT COMPETITIVE performance-wise with the current crop of performance hyperbikes...The only reason a V-11 could EVER keep up with any modern performance hyperbike on most kinds of roads imaginable is if the rider of same is far below the level of talent of the rider of the V-11...

 

Ratchethack, I've been out with good riders on modern sportsbikes on the road & we've enjoyed ourselves. On the type of roads we ride, & straightlining excepted, the point at which the limitations of the bike seriously limit progress is, for the most part, beyond a speed that is wise on open roads. ie: consideration for personal safety & the safety of others limits speed before the abilities of the V11 to "keep up". For the use to which they are mostly put, in a general sense Guzzis are"competitive" with most other vehicles.

 

On paper & at the limit, the V11 cannot "compete" on hp, or weight, in a straight line, under very heavy braking on a bumpy surface or in speed of steering.

 

However it is also those same features that, in most real world riding help make a V11"competitive": Low hp means it's safe to open the throttle pretty much anytime, weight & slow steering bring stability in long smooth sweeping corners. Relaxed nature of the motor & decent torque across the rev range make it easy to keep up good progress on the right roads. My observation is that it is the huge performance of modern sportsbikes that often slows them down: most riders would be quicker on something a little less potent.

 

I don't see the need for so much sarcasm in your posts. Or do I misunderstand the purpose of this thread?

 

KB

[Guest ratchethack]

Ratchethack, I don't think you are listening.

 

I've been out with good riders on modern Japaneses sportsbikes on the road & we've enjoyed ourselves. On the type of roads we ride, & straightlining excepted, the point at which the limitations of the bike limit progress is for the most part beyond a speed that is wise on open roads. ie: consideration for personal safety & the safety of others limits speed before the abilities of the V11 to "keep up". For the use to which they are mostly put, Guzzis are"competitive" with most other vehicles.

 

On paper the V11 cannot "compete" on hp, or weight. On the road: in a straight line, under very heavy braking on a bumpy surface or in speed of steering.

 

However it is also the same features that in most real world riding mean that a V11 is "competitive". Lack of hp means it's pretty much safe to open the throttle anytime, weight & slow steering bring stability in long smooth sweeping corners. The relaxed nature of the motor & decent torque across the rev range make it easy to keep up good progress on the right roads. My observation is that it is the huge performance of modern sportsbikes that actually slows them down: most riders would be quicker on something a little less potent.

 

Also, I don't see the need for so much sarcasm in your posts. Or do I misunderstand the purpose of this thread?

 

KB

Keith, with all due respect, I don't believe YOU'RE listening.

 

We can waltz around parsing the meaning of "performance" and "competitive" all day -- but please, let's not.

 

I've said it about as many ways as I'm going to say it. There is NO comparing a V-11 against any of the performance hyperbikes currently available from a performance perspective.

 

To suggest otherwise is simply ridiculous, and ought not be left unchallenged on this Forum. This doesn't mean that I'm saying the V-11 isn't a perfectly fine road machine that's perfectly enjoyable by many, if not most riders. As I've said many times, after 12 bikes, my Guzzi is my all-time favorite. I have no use for "performance hyperbikes" wotsoever. I've also seen some pretty stupid and dangerous things done with many kinds of motorcycles by people who seem to be as confused as Dave is about performance, who make the same kinds of delirious, nonsensical claims that Dave's made here. IMHO this category of denial can have serious consequences.

 

Now you can say "on certain kinds of roads" performance differences don't mean much in terms of speed over ground, and you'd be well within all bounds of correctness IMHO. As far as I'm concerned, the way I ride, the kinds of performance differences we're referring to here don't mean anything at all -- EVER. But by no means do all riders ride as carefully or safely as I do. Riding high performance bikes safely doesn't erase their performance capabilitles, Keith, nor is it correct -- or by any means safe -- for many kinds of riders I've seen on a regular basis to confuse the capabilities of wot they're riding on with bikes of dramatically superior performance capability.

 

I'm amazed when people can't understand simple facts and deal with them logically, and then make flat-out false statements with no basis in reality whatsoever. This is the source of my sarcasm with Dave. I don't care WHY Dave insists on making false statements that he can't back up with evidence. But to continue to repeat such foolishness against all reason, all logic and all facts is worse than childish, and IMHO this kind of false information shouldn't be allowed to stand unchallenged here, and most vigorously so. IMHO we can do with lots less spreading of childish, false, and yes, DANGEROUS notions about Guzzi's on a public Forum.

 

As riders, IMHO we could do with a lot less childish behavior by adults on the road also. It gives all motorcycling a bad name, and worse than this, the statistics lately are driving insurance rates up for older categories of riders, many of whom these days are new to motorcycling and behave as unsafely as children on the road.

 

This weekend we had two deaths that I know of on the roads I'm familiar with, and 2 more bikes -- both V-11's -- went down on famous local mountain roads not far from me, putting both riders in the hospital, and totaling both Guzzi's. The two deaths were single-vehicle accidents that were evidently due to rider error. As I've posted many times, the meat wagons and tow trucks with extra-long cables roll the local mountain roads all Summer hauling off the results of childish behavior -- and dangerously mistaken beliefs about performance -- back up the cliffs and back down to local hospitals, sometimes by-passing the hospitals -- straight to the morgue.

 

If Dave or anyone who mistakenly believes that their V-11 can keep up with "enthusiastic" riders of UNKNOWN ABILITY on bikes with a 270% power-to-weight ratio advantage over a V-11 (in the case of the aformentioned R1), and brake with bikes in this class on mountain roads, he's asking for a hard lesson that could well be fatal. The woods hereabouts are full o' idiots loopy enough to do just that, and I've seen enough evidence of this in aftermath up close and personal to've made an impression I'll not soon forget. We don't need any encouragement of bad behavior based on false beliefs from those who damn well ought to know lots better.

 

Best nip all such foolishness well in the bud early and often.

[Guzzirider]

Keith

 

I fully concur! My tweaked Ducati makes just over 130bhp at the back wheel and weighs much less than my 79bhp V11. Although I can ride the Duke faster (and its a lot of fun!), I feel more at ease thrashing my fat V11 around the tight bumpy moorland roads that surround me.

 

The truth is that our roads are too small and crowded to make the most of the power of more modern sportsbikes, so a rider on a Guzzi can often keep up with a big fast modern Jap bike, even if the riders are of similar abilities. This is because there is simply not enough space to allow the Jap bike to use its poke, and the rider may be intimidated by highsiding and wheelies, whereas on the Guzzi you can thrash the tits off it without spinning up.

 

Saying that if anybody wants a race, I tend to politely wave them past- I much prefer riding on my own if the pace is hot.

 

My friend who had an accident last week, in which he lost a leg, has just had a successful operation on his shattered pelvis and is being weaned off sedation- he was a good rider and when shit like that happens its a reminder that anyone can make a mistake and get into bad trouble.

 

Guy

[Baldini]

..Keith, with all due respect, I don't believe YOU'RE listening...

 

I need to be a bit quicker w the edit button!

 

My point is that in reality V11 performance is so usable that it can "keep up" better than it has any right to if you just look at paper figures.

 

V11 performance is good enough for most, most times. At extremes it does not have "performance" (measured as HP & weight) of modern sports bikes. V11's limited HP is always accessable via good torque, so that it's "performance" is enough to "keep up" on slow/medium (& not too bumpy) roads when ridden at reasonable pace & most other roads if you're not riding too **** fast . Replacing parts with better/lighter will improve "perfomance" to a point where, with enough dedication & no original parts remaining bar tank stickers, it will match a stock R1...possibly.

 

I don't see an argument, I guess it is semantics. I think the fellow who originally posted has not come back? Perhaps he felt he would be intruding on a private squabble?

 

KB

[dlaing]

I've repeatedly asked you for credible EVIDENCE of the existence of a V-11 in anything near the same performance category with the current crop of performance hyperbikes. You have yet to provide ANY whatsoever.

 

A photo of YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE of a non-V-11 (above) is not helping your case. . . [sigh]. . .

Perhaps I am not being clear enough.

The Guareschi MGS01 that one this year's BOT did not use the 8Valve MGS01 engine, but instead used the BigBore engine. You, yes you, Ratchet, can buy the Big Bore engine kit for your V11 engine. From what I understand it uses the engine, but completely replaces the top end and converts the engine to water cooling.

Was the engine that Guareschi modified a V11? I don't know, but it could have been.

Obviously Guareschi is using the MGS01 frame, that may very well be superior to the spine frame.

As for the bike in that photo, no it is not a V11, it is Paul's Fast Guzzi, but it does have the following V11 parts

* 6 speed gearbox.

* V11 swingarm.

* V11 reardrive with drive shaft.

* V11 tacho cable and angle drive, i

* V11 clutch master cylinder , clutch line.

* V11 gearshift rods

* v11 rearframe between engine and swingarm from >2001 model

The main frame is not very different from a V11, so comparison is valid.

The only significant difference between Paul's bike and what a V11 could be is the engine. He has an awesome ~1200cc 8valve.

But considering you could take a V11 and do all that Paul has done and then do the engine kit that Guareschi has used, the answer is yes, a V11 can be competitive with a Hyperbike on just about any road.

Ratchet, assuming you understood this simple plan to convert a V11 into a Hayabusa eater, why do you doubt this modification plan would work?

FWIW I think this 130HP Dynotec bike is probably a pretty competive bike, and it did not even need water cooling.

It looks to me like a V11 is the base bike for this Guzzilla.

 

As I said before, I agree with your concerns about unsafe riding, and go even further and think that "the PACE" is pushing speed too far. But to each their own.

[g.forrest]

hey guys! what happened to global warming.

[Guest ratchethack]

Replacing parts with better/lighter will improve "perfomance" to a point where, with enough dedication & no original parts remaining bar tank stickers, it will match a stock R1...possibly.

Keith, this sounds exactly like Dave with the exception of the last word. I think we've learned enough about wot Dave believes to understand that he wouldn't have used that word.

 

Look. I don't believe you can show me any credible evidence of the existence of a V-11 Guzzi -- that is, a motorcycle with a V-11 Guzzi motor in a Guzzi V-11 chassis -- that can begin to match the performance of a showroom stock R1 on any road or track, assuming riders of equal ability -- or better yet, the same rider on each. If you can provide any credible evidence that I'm wrong, I'd love to eat my words. No one's provided anything close yet. Based on mfgr. published performance numbers, and the fact that BOT was created so that twins didn't have to face the boredom of consistent humiliation at the track against the likes of R1's (generally not a big enhancement to gate numbers) I don't believe it exists.