Warm Fuzzies?

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .considering you could take a V11 and do all that Paul has done and then do the engine kit that Guareschi has used, the answer is yes, a V11 can be competitive with a Hyperbike on just about any road.

[. . .sigh. . .]

 

Once you've built castles in the air and then MOVED IN, Dave, isn't that first step out the front door a bit of a whopper by the time you hit terra firma?

 

I hope you appreciate how often I have to get out my lasso to pull you back from drifting off into never-never land every time your feet leave the gound. . .

 

Dave.

 

If you take a V-11 and make it into something that's no longer a V-11, no rational, sane person on THIS PLANET would expect to use this as a basis for determining V-11 performance capabilities.

 

Once again, Dave -- Until you brought other motors to this thread, the topic was V-11 motorcycles and their performance relative to the latest crop of performance hyperbikes. You've repeatedly attempted to attribute the performance of other motors than a V-11 to the V-11 -- even after I've clearly pointed this out, attempting as best I can to disabuse you of your horrific confusion -- you're STILL DOING IT!!!

 

It appears this must actually be spelled out in even simpler language.

 

If you replace a V-11 motor with an 8-valve motor or a motor without any V-11 parts, it's no longer a V-11, Dave.

 

Similarly, if you replace a V-11 chassis with something other than a V-11 chassis, it's no longer a V-11.

Ratchet, assuming you understood this simple plan to convert a V11 into a Hayabusa eater, why do you doubt this modification plan would work?

Errrr, Dave. Most of the occupants of this planet are not willing to place beliefs of performance on wishful thinking and photographs alone. Now you've repeatedly demonstrated in this thread (again!) that your sense of reality is based on the "It COULD BE, it SHOULD BE, I WANT IT TO BE, therefore IT IS!" principle, but generally speaking, adults on this planet outgrow this behavior around the age of 12 or so. . .

 

The objective, rational question that most level-headed adults would ask, Dave, is this: Since THERE IS NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER of a "V-11 Hayabusa eater", how is it that YOU have come to insist to this Forum that such a thing exists?

 

There's more solid, credible evidence of Bigfoot (and lots more of it -- not only photo's, but footprints!) than there is of credible, objective, independently derived performance capability of a "V-11 Hayabusa eater".

 

If I showed you a photo of a V-11 Guzzi with wings and jet aircraft engines bolted to it and called it a "V-11 F22 Raptor Eater", Dave, would you believe that V-11's can fly?

 

FWIW I think this 130HP Dynotec bike is probably a pretty competive bike, and it did not even need water cooling.

. . .It looks to me like a V11 is the base bike for this Guzzilla.

Yes indeed. "Probably a pretty competitive bike" -- based on WHAT EVIDENCE, Dave? A photo?

 

Dave, I have some prime real estate available for sale. It's reclaimed swampland in hurricane territory in Florida. The photo's of flamingos sure are nice & pretty. I can make you a deal. How many acres would you like?

[badmotogoozer]

Still trying to unload that Florida land ya got suckered into?? I'd be skeptical about everything too if I fell for that one!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2h1xiroQXw

 

Rj

[dlaing]

 

If you take a V-11 and make it into something that's no longer a V-11, no rational, sane person on THIS PLANET would expect to use this as a basis for determining V-11 performance capabilities.

 

Yes, you are correct that if you don't modify a V11 it won't become better than a V11.

Sorry, I thought modifying and engine was an acceptable form of improving an engine.

I mentioned earlier if you had rules about modifying and you said you did not.

So, if putting big bore cylinders is not an acceptable modification, what other rules do you have to narrow your vision?

No turbo? No Super Charger? 1100cc Maximum? No twin plugging? No enhanced cooling?

You are re-defining the rules of modification when there are no rules.

This is not land speed record chasing where you have to stay within a class.

In my opinion if the frame with serial number stay the same and the engine and serial number stay the same, it is a modified V11. Maybe it should be renamed a V14, but it is a modified V11.

I fully admit that if you don't add a turbo or super charger, or bore it out, or go to multi-valves, or nitrous, you will not get hyperbike performance, but I did not think that those were unmentionable options on this forum.

Sorry for the misunderstanding

[Admin Jaap]

This ridiculous argument doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling...

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

This ridiculous argument doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling...

 

Try this then maybe this thread will not seem so ridiculous!!

 

[Guest Mattress]

Check the Sportbike Track Time shedule. Great bunch of folks. I did one of thiers at Barber's.

 

Road America at Elkhart Lake, WI isn't too far... and Autobahn Country Club is near Joliet...

 

http://www.sportbiketracktime.com/schedule_midwest2007.html

 

 

Thanks! Also, Gingerman and Grattan aren't too far away in Michigan. I kind find the idea of a track day intimidating but I guess if the company running the event is patient and understanding of neophytes it could be fun and educational. I just want to become the best rider I can be.

 

anyhow this thread seems out of control. If you go to youtube there is a nice video of a breva or griso and a suzuki or some other sportbike. At times the guzzi gets in front and nearly disappears in the distance through the corners.

[dlaing]

Try this then maybe this thread will not seem so ridiculous!!

 

[img snip http://www.ericberne.com/images/warmfuzzy.jpg [/img]

I suspect Ratchet may be right...no matter what you do to a Guzzi, it won't give you the warm fuzzy feeling of a Japanese motorcycle

And cruiser can benefit even more from modifications

But if we can't modify are V11 to make warmer or fuzzier, maybe we can get helmets with more warm fuzzies to help us keep up the the Japanese hyperbike riders

http://www.roadkillhelmets.com/index.html

[Guest ratchethack]

. . . yes, a V11 can be competitive with a Hyperbike on just about any road.

Ratchet, assuming you understood this simple plan to convert a V11 into a Hayabusa eater, why do you doubt this modification plan would work?

Dave! I do believe you're right after all!

 

This is even better than the famous "Patterson footage" of Bigfoot!

 

Here it is!

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uaHDa3gd8Qk

 

And now, the "Bigfoot" of all motorcycling:

 

The mythical "V-11 Hayabusa Eater" actually EXISTS!

 

But, but . . . is it REAL?! "It COULD BE, it SHOULD BE, DAVE WANTS IT TO BE -- therefore, IT IS! "

 

Dave! It's obviously a "simple modification plan" with REAL Hayabusa Eater aerodynamic performance behind it -- by your standards of judging credibility, the photo proves it!!

 

Why, who could doubt that such a modification plan would work?! Surely only those with narrow minds!

 

Dave, I think this V-11 Hayabusa Eater modification plan is just PERFECT for YOU.

 

It was obviously created by someone who shares your grasp of reality, and who really knows how to LIVE THE DREAM!

[dlaing]

Now you are catching on, and maybe have gone too far. I think there are more reasonable fairing options available. Magni

But then again maybe it was a streamlined Guzzi that Slim Pickens was riding when he helped us escalate "win" the cold war????

[Guest ratchethack]

Hey Dave!

 

Here's a way to make transport to and from the "castles in the air" where you live less painful when you hit bottom after that scary first step before you make hard contact with terra firma!

 

Now those with "open minds" can bypass the nasty, "narrow minded" rules of Earth Gravity and power-to-weight Physics altogether on their V-11's -- just as you do in your most vivid and wildest hallucinations!

 

It seems that not only does the mythical "V-11 Hayabusa Eater" EXIST (see above), but those who aren't burdened with "narrow minds" can indulge their fantasies even further!

 

Here's a kit that (by your "logic" -- as long as the motor has a V-11 serial number on it) can make a V-11 FLY!

 

At $19,800 USD, this "simple modification plan" might well give the Big Bore motor some serious competition!

 

http://www.flightnest.com/2005/09/29/kit-m...motorcycle-fly/

 

So not only is your statement TRUE, "a V11 can be competitive with a Hyperbike on just about any road" -- It seems that a V11 can be competitive IN THE SKY -- ABOVE ANY ROAD!

 

In other words, Dave -- you now have "PROOF" that THERE ARE FEW LIMITS WOTSOEVER to the capabilities of a V-11! A V-11 literally IS a "magic carpet" that can do ANYTHING you can dream up! Unlike any motorcycle on THIS PLANET, with a V-11, your wish is TRULY a V-11's command!

 

Next on the fantasy dream list for wot a V-11 can do: Intergalactic space/time travel.

 

If you're a betting man, Dave -- you can surely use the enclosed photo as "evidence"!

 

Er, good luck collecting. . .

 

NOTE: If anybody has a photo of a motorcycle passing through a WORMHOLE that could have a Guzzi serial number on it, -- by all means, please post it here! This would be all the "proof" Dave needs that a V-11 can do the intergalactic space/time travel thing.

 

Let's get this nailed this down once and for all!

 

"A man's gotta know his limitations" -- Dirty Harry

 

Could it really be true that A V-11 DOESN'T HAVE ANY LIMITATIONS A-TALL?!

[Baldini]

..To suggest that a V-11 IS, or CAN BE competitive with the current crop of hyperbikes from any performance standpoint imaginable is patently absurd.....

 

No it isn't.

 

KB

[Guest ratchethack]

No it isn't.

 

KB

[. . . sigh . . .]

 

OK, Keith. I'll bite. We've seen Dave's best "evidence".

 

Wot evidence have you, praytell?

 

Enquiring minds (well, you know)

 

NOTE: I DO hope we won't soon be subjected to parrying back and forth over context, inflection, and syntactical relationships of "competitive" and "performance"? I can (and will) go there if you insist. But I'd much rather stick with common sense, common use of the words as used in discussing motorcycles, and the most common objective parameters for measurement by which manufacturers rate their products and evaluators rank them in comparisons.

[badmotogoozer]

This ridiculous argument doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling...

 

More like warm and stinky. <_ ratshit in the air...>

 

Rat - take your sarcasm, innuendos, and insults and stuff them up your arrogant ass.

 

Rj

[Guest ratchethack]

To suggest that a V-11 IS, or CAN BE competitive with the current crop of hyperbikes from any performance standpoint imaginable is patently absurd.

No it isn't.

 

KB

Keith, I'd be sincerely interested in your response to the following.

 

First off, just to repeat wot I've posted many times, I consider myself nothing more than a Road Geez-category rider. I have neither any interest in "Hyperbike performance" bikes, nor do I aspire to riding skill levels of those who are capable of riding this class of machine to their full performance capabilities. Neither do I believe that I suffer many illusions about either my riding skills or the performance capabilities of my Guzzi -- though I regularly come across those on the roads I ride who, IMHO, DO suffer dangerously inaccurate opinions of themselves and their machines. I also occasionally come across the tragic results of such misunderstanding, as previously mentioned.

 

I haven't looked at many moto-journo evaluations of hyperbikes for decades. But I find it very interesting to observe that lately, many poorly prepared and inexperienced riders read these things to find out wot the moto-journo's consider the "biggest, fastest, and best in class" as a basis for a purchase of their first or second bike (or even their 10th), then go out amongst riders of anywhere from formidable to novice skill level with their shiny new "TOP O' THE LIST" bike, only to make their poorly-informed foray into motorcycling into a very short one, occasionally at the expense of their lives.

 

Two people that I know of died in single-vehicle motorcycle accidents very close to where I live just last weekend. It's just a sad sad thing, but it does happen regularly, all season long, on my favorite riding roads. Wot I've tried to do in this thread is expose the worst of wot seems to be ill-founded false dreams in the hopes that SOMEONE might gain an understanding that wot we're riding on should NOT be mistaken for a toy for the purpose of playing around far outside of its performance capabilities. Again - despite how common such false expectations may be, a V-11 IS NOT anywhere near the category of the current crop of hyperformance machinery available. Not by the aforementioned inter-galactic chip-shot.

 

I've been somewhat surprised at the feedback in this thread that would attempt to deny reality and put the V-11 in the same class as the aforementioned. I would've expected lots less of this here, believing this Forum in general to be better informed and more sensible than this. Again, I believe it's a potentially dangerous mistake.

 

Now then.

 

There's a publication called MotorcycleUSA.com, that conducts evaluations of the latest hyperbikes every year. DISCLAIMER: I know next to NOTHING about this organization, nor do I endorse them in any way. I've read their latest stuff and last year's evaluation of the top hyperbikes, and it seems credible enough to me, and I suspect that their findings are consistent with findings of other credible organizations who conduct these kinds of evaluations, which I've skimmed enough of to know that there's at least a level of consistency and credibility here.

 

Last year MotorcycleUSA.com tested the latest & greatest hyperbikes on many roads, including one of my favorite local riding roads within easy striking distance of where I live. It's the East Grade of Mt. Palomar. The photo below shows last year's tested bikes at one of the stops I often make overlooking Lake Henshaw, on the lower 1/3 of the grade. Bikes regularly reach speeds well in excess of 100-120 mph on and between these sweepers, and IMHO, too many riders have been either maimed for life or died here. It's a truly unique and very special road, with some interesting history behind it. At more moderate speeds, it's one of my all-time favorite stretches of tarmac.

 

Here's a link to MotorcycleUSA.com's latest 2007 - just published evaluation of the "Big 4" hyperbikes from Japan.

 

http://www-origin.motorcycle-usa.com/Artic...4683&Page=1

 

Now if there's REALLY anyone reading this who believes that a V-11 performs in the same category with the machines in this evaluation, I'd be sincerely interested in understanding UPON WHAT BASIS they've placed this belief, and I'd be even more interested in ANY EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND they think may support those beliefs.

 

I found this year's "shootout" to be an interesting read. It helps me understand even more about the horrific DELTA in performance that exists between my limited abilities and the abilities of those who actually push these bikes to their limits. It ALSO helps me understand exactly why neither my Guzzi nor any other V-11 would EVER be able to perform with the likes of these kinds of bikes on any road at any time, and why any attempt by most riders to try to "keep up" with seriously talented riders on this class of machine (which I have NO DOUBT exist in and amongst the rest!) could get a V-11 rider in WAY over his head.

 

Keith, I hope you enjoy the link. I'll be interested in your response.

[WitchCityBallabio]

What makes a bike go fast is mostly rider.

Learning to ride a Guzzi fast takes longer than other bikes.

Track school will help Zagato keep up with the "modern sport Japanese bikes"

But yes, assuming riders are of equal ability, and the "competition" is are sport bikes typically ranging from 375 to 475 pounds and anywhere from 60 to 160HP "competition",as if they are competing on the street...Nobody said Zagato was competing with them, he is just trying to keep up with them, on the street, not the track.

A stock V11 is not much slower than a VFR on most roads.

The VFR has a slight weight advantage, a big HP advantage, unsprung weight advantage at rear. But the Guzzi has a nicer power band and the direction of the engine turning does not increase the gyrosopic rigidness the way a transversally mounted bike does. This gives the Guzzi an advantage quick switch backs.

If Zagato is losing ground on them in the straights, he needs more power, and for that he can either make small improvements, or he can think big and bore the engine out with the aforementioned bigbore kit which is all standard hot-rodding technique except for the conversion to water cooling. Sorry if that breaks your narrow minded rules

But with the power that that conversion allows, I don't there is not a stock Japanese bike that could "compete" with that in a straight line, until you hit redline at about 150MPH.

But now the bike would be up in weight so you would have to drop the weight.

The rear subframe is an excellent place to start.

Next would be the wheels.

Ceramic brake rotors and bearings.

Titanium wherever possible.

Billet and or forged brake components.

It might not be a bad idea to redo the pork chops and triple clams in billet and maybe the rear brake carrier.

Kevlar brake lines.

You could mill out some of the rear drive to save a few grams as JediOne did.

You probably could not put in lighter battery because the engine modifications will probably require a lot of juice.

Plastic headlight.

Replace the ECU, speedo and tach with that one that Paul M. uses.

How much will that drop the weight? I don't know, Zebulon's G&B weighs about 425#wet. And Paul's bike is sure lean.

So it is possible to get the weight down to that of a heavier "hyperbike" if you have the time, money, resources, etc.

And it is possible to make it MORE powerful.

Combined, that is certainly "competive"

Not to mention, after the investment, the brakes and suspension are superior to the "modern sport Japanese bikes".

I am spending enough time and money just trying to keep it running, and track school is the best investment I could make to go faster and safer.

The limitation is mostly rider.

Put me on an R1 for a few months and I'll get from point A to point B only marginally faster. But put me on a heavilly modified Guzzi and you will get about the same result, but the bike would be much more pleasurable....and that is what a silk purse is all about.

 

 

Just to add my ....

 

I used to have a 2002 VFR. I rode it pretty hard (did a cross country trip on it and put tons of miles in the saddle) and besides the bike being a bit "soul-less" enjoyed it well enough. I do have to say though, that even though the VFR had a horsepower and weight advantage, I believe I ride the V11 a bit faster and cleaner through the twisties. I think the power band on the V11 is much more usable in real world driving. I'm not saying the Ballabio is faster than the VFR, just that I think I ride it better for whatever reason.

 

Do I think that a V11 will ever be in the realm of the likes of a CBR1000RR for the average rider? Not likely. But the thing is, I don't really care. I can ride the V11 fast enough to stay with all the folks I ride with, and that's fine with me. I didn't buy the Ballabio to compete with the sport hyper bikes. I bought it because I loved the driving experience and character of the V11 regardless of it's competitiveness with the hyper bikes. If I wanted a bike to compete with a CBR or 'Busa, I would have bought one of those.

 

Why try to make a perfectly sound and enjoyable street bike into something it's not?

 

 

Doug