Warm Fuzzies?

[Baldini]

Keith, I'd be sincerely interested in your response to the following....

 

Had a look at the test, not sure what you want a response to?

 

R1 etc - lots more HP, far less wt than V11. Dyno or fast racetrack: V11 is nowhere.

 

Torque figs., hence; useable, twisty road performance - much closer.

 

HP is as much a liability as an advantage in the twisties, where tyre choice probably has as much impact.

 

Ratchet (you don't mind my calling you by your first name I hope?) On a twisty road with all it's variables, if I am kept from keeping up by the V11's abilities rather than my own - that is faster than I want to be going on open roads. The pace at which that feeling occurs would be similar whatever bike I was riding. Therefore a V11 is as quick as anything else - for me. I think you are not saying anything different?

 

Your concern re people hurting themselves riding V11 beyond it's abilities to stay with R1's etc..Do you think they'd be any safer on a R1? or anything else for that matter?

 

Gotta go, I only booked the 5 minute argument .

 

KB

[Guest ratchethack]

a V11 is as quick as anything else - for me. I think you are not saying anything different?

 

Your concern re people hurting themselves riding V11 beyond it's abilities to stay with R1's etc..Do you think they'd be any safer on a R1? or anything else for that matter?

 

Gotta go, I only booked the 5 minute argument .

 

KB

Keith, I don't think you're saying much of anything different than the point I'm making. But it seems you've attached the way an individual rider chooses to ride the machine to your perception of wot "performance" means. The discussion has been about performance capabilities of machines ONLY.

 

Yes, of course I THINK that (regardless of rider now) chasing hyperbikes overall would be safer on an R1 than on a V-11. You've asked me what I THOUGHT, and this is just MY OPINION. But a few basics would seem to back this up from an objective standpoint:

 

1. The R1 carries at least 100 lb. less weight, as you've pointed out.

 

2. The R1 has a rear wheel assembly that weighs in the neighborhood of 15 lbs. The V-11's rear wheel assembly -- including bevel drive -- weighs in the neighborhood of 40 lbs.

 

3. The R1 is far better balanced fore-to-aft in it's weight distribution. NOTE: I've carefully measured my V-11 in this regard and posted the results on this Forum. The R1's weight dist. was measured along with the others in the previous year's (2006) evaluation as noted above. I won't copy them here, but the V-11's balance numbers are considerably less desirable than any of them -- again, along with overall weight, the V-11 isn't in the same category as far as chassis balance.

 

Now I don't think I'd be alone with an objective choice for safety purposes alone in believing that in any kind of challenging terrain (mountain roads like the kind discussed above, for example) that the far lighter machine with far more sophisticated rear suspension, not hamstrung with a whopping extra 25 lbs. of UNSPRUNG weight in the rear, at the end of a relatively short swingarm, further burdened with a significant rear weight bias adds up to anything like parity from a safety standpoint when negotiating uneven terrain approaching the maximum lean angles of the machines in question.

 

As I noted previously, I've seen the unpleasant results of wot happens when the rider of a heavier bike tries to keep up with a lesser-skilled rider of a much lighter machine by out-braking him into a curve. For many people, it seems that some lessons must be learned the hard way, or they aren't learned at all. . .

 

I've made a choice for my V-11 for likely the same reasons you have. I don't care much about any of the performance disparities noted above, because I'll never be chasing hyperbikes. But of course others will, and do. Yes, I believe they'd be far better off -- and safer -- with a bike that actually has performance capabilities in the same category with wot they're attempting to ride with.

 

That's all.

[dlaing]

Keith, I don't think you're saying much of anything different than the point I'm making. But it seems you've attached the way an individual rider chooses to ride the machine to your perception of wot "performance" means. The discussion has been about performance capabilities of machines ONLY.

 

Yes, of course I THINK that (regardless of rider now) chasing hyperbikes overall would be safer on an R1 than on a V-11. You've asked me what I THOUGHT, and this is just MY OPINION. But a few basics would seem to back this up from an objective standpoint:

 

1. The R1 carries at least 100 lb. less weight, as you've pointed out.

 

2. The R1 has a rear wheel assembly that weighs in the neighborhood of 15 lbs. The V-11's rear wheel assembly -- including bevel drive -- weighs in the neighborhood of 40 lbs.

 

3. The R1 is far better balanced fore-to-aft in it's weight distribution. NOTE: I've carefully measured my V-11 in this regard and posted the results on this Forum. The R1's weight dist. was measured along with the others in the previous year's (2006) evaluation as noted above. I won't copy them here, but the V-11's balance numbers are considerably less desirable than any of them -- again, along with overall weight, the V-11 isn't in the same category.

 

Now I don't think I'd be alone with an objective choice for safety purposes alone in believing that in any kind of challenging terrain (mountain roads like the kind discussed above, for example) that the far lighter machine with far more sophisticated rear suspension, not hamstrung with a whopping extra 25 lbs. of UNSPRUNG weight in the rear, at the end of a relatively short swingarm, further burdened with a significant rear weight bias adds up to anything like parity from a safety standpoint when negotiating uneven terrain approaching the maximum lean angles of the machines in question.

 

As I noted previously, I've seen the unpleasant results of wot happens when the rider of a heavier bike tries to keep up with a lesser-skilled rider of a much lighter machine by out-braking him into a curve. For many people, it seems that some lessons must be learned the hard way, or they aren't learned at all. . .

 

I've made a choice for my V-11 for likely the same reasons you have. I don't care much about any of the performance disparities noted above, because I'll never be chasing hyperbikes. But of course others will, and do. Yes, I believe they'd be far better off -- and safer -- with a bike that actually has performance capabilities in the same category with wot they're attempting to ride with.

 

That's all.

That is your first somewhat sensible post so far. Way to go!

Now, if we could just get you to recognize that it is OK to take a well set up V11 and keeping up with hyper bikes that are going THE PACE, you might be on the road to recovery from bitter humbug disorder

But somehow I suspect you will always equate BigBore with BigFoot, despite the photos and track records of Guareschi, you hang on the belief that the BigBore kit cannot be used on a V11.

I have asked repeatedly why you know it would not work, but you would rather write a thousand word essay on how I am not grounded by Earth's gravity.

Certainly makes entertaining reading for juvenilles.

[Guest ratchethack]

OK, I'm just about done here. I was hoping to flush out the last of the True Believers in Fantasy so's we could at least have 'em all identified, but it looks like they're all spoken for.

 

One last post and I think we can gratefully wrap this up and consider the stake well driven thru the heart of yet another popular delusion.

 

. . .yes, a V11 can be competitive with a Hyperbike on just about any road.

 

Dave. What if I said that a Ford Mustang can be competitive with a Porsche 911 GT3 RS on just about any road.

 

Now, THAT oughta wake up some of our friends all across Germany -- or at least from Zuffenhausen to Leipzig!

 

Why Dave, I'd expect to get objections to this backed by credible, readily validated performance numbers, starting with simple power-to-weight ratios, pointing out the obvious absurdity of the above statement and its sheer impossibility from an Earth Physics standpoint -- just for starters, mind you. . . .

 

So then , Dave, faced with overwhelming HARD, VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE that my statement is obviously and overwhelmingly false and absurd, I THEN paste the torque curve of an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MOTOR than a Ford Mustang motor over the torque curve of the Porsche motor, and suggest that my Ford Mustang could have a Roush 402RI motor in it! Now for the uninitiated, this is a motor based on a stock Ford block with all-Roush parts and engineering from the block out, producing 500 bhp and 500 lbs./ft. torque.

 

Would you THEN concede, Dave, that my statement that a Ford Mustang can be competitive with a Porsche 911 GT3 RS on just about any road was truly an accurate claim?!

 

This is EXACTLY what you've asked this Forum to believe, Dave, by insisting on confusing a V-11 motor with a Big Bore motor. Both Big Bore and Roush offer racing engine kits of their own design. Now you may actually be confused enough to fall for your own delusion. But most of us aren't in the slightest, and this is really entirely too silly and boring, isn't it, Dave?

 

A Ford Mustang is NOT the same as a Mustang with a Roush 402RI motor in it, and almost no one on this planet with a moderate level of experience with reality would be so confused as to claim otherwise.

 

A V-11 Guzzi is NOT the same as a V-11 Guzzi with a Big Bore motor in it, and almost no one on this planet with a moderate level of experience with reality would be so confused as to claim otherwise.

 

By past experience, I've learned that it's necessary to spell this out AGAIN -- v-e-r-y c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y:

 

When Jack Roush & company (or anyone else) builds a Roush 402RI motor, Dave, it's NOT a Mustang motor.

 

When Big Bore (or anyone else) builds a Big Bore racing motor (again -- without ANY V-11 parts whatsoever!) it's NOT a V-11 motor.

 

Capice?

 

Your statement above is false, Dave, and you've provided NOTHING WHATSOEVER to back it up here.

 

I'm all done here. See you on the next thread -- ready, willing & able to shoot down your next delusion. . . [sigh] . . .

[dlaing]

snip

You would be making an excellent point if you had not pulled the quote ignoring the full context of that quote.

Here is the original, with what you quoted in italics:

Perhaps I am not being clear enough.

The Guareschi MGS01 that one this year's BOT did not use the 8Valve MGS01 engine, but instead used the BigBore engine. You, yes you, Ratchet, can buy the Big Bore engine kit for your V11 engine. From what I understand it uses the engine, but completely replaces the top end and converts the engine to water cooling.

Was the engine that Guareschi modified a V11? I don't know, but it could have been.

Obviously Guareschi is using the MGS01 frame, that may very well be superior to the spine frame.

As for the bike in that photo, no it is not a V11, it is Paul's Fast Guzzi, but it does have the following V11 parts

* 6 speed gearbox.

* V11 swingarm.

* V11 reardrive with drive shaft.

* V11 tacho cable and angle drive, i

* V11 clutch master cylinder , clutch line.

* V11 gearshift rods

* v11 rearframe between engine and swingarm from >2001 model

The main frame is not very different from a V11, so comparison is valid.

The only significant difference between Paul's bike and what a V11 could be is the engine. He has an awesome ~1200cc 8valve.

But considering you could take a V11 and do all that Paul has done and then do the engine kit that Guareschi has used, the answer is yes, a V11 can be competitive with a Hyperbike on just about any road.

 

So, it would be kind of like me saying, if you put a Roush 402IR engine and suspension and brake modifications into a Ford Mustang, that a Ford Mustang can be competitive with a Porsche 911 GT3 RS on just about any road.

 

We obviously agree that an extremely modified V11 can keep up with hyperbikes. Now we can all just get along right?

 

If you want to argue that it is no longer a Mustang or no longer a V11, fine, whatever, it is absolutely whatever you want it to call it, "A Roushtang" or a "BigBoreV14", even though my registration will still list my bike as a V11.

 

FWIW the Roush is a complete engine replacement, while the Big Bore kit retains the bottom end, as has been mentioned over and over. The Roush upgrade might better parallel putting Paul M.'s 8 valve V12 in a V11, not that it makes any more power than the BigBore modification of the V11...

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Daves new car!!

 

 

Daves new motor!

 

 

Rock on Dave!!!!!

[dlaing]

I love it!

Now, if bigbore.it would just answer their email <_>

[rocker59]

All I can say is that on my ride last Saturday in a group of eight motorcycles, it was me and a Gixxer 600 up front in the tight twisty stuff. By far... And we weren't even pushing it too hard...

 

The whole crewe was "surprised with the Guzzi". There were a 900SS, a Sprint ST, a Ballabio, an SV650S, and a couple other "fast bikes" in the group...

 

On the street there are many more variables than what a spec sheet would have you believe...

 

The Z6 Roadtec tires performed flawlessly on the Nero Corsa, BTW...

[dlaing]

 

Daves new motor!

 

 

Rock on Dave!!!!!

DARN!!!!

I wanted to be the first kid on the block!!

But BFG beat me to it

from http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...=11299&st=0 "Keep the home fires burning"

[WitchCityBallabio]

All I can say is that on my ride last Saturday in a group of eight motorcycles, it was me and a Gixxer 600 up front in the tight twisty stuff. By far... And we weren't even pushing it too hard...

 

The whole crewe was "surprised with the Guzzi". There were a 900SS, a Sprint ST, a Ballabio, an SV650S, and a couple other "fast bikes" in the group...

 

On the street there are many more variables than what a spec sheet would have you believe...

 

The Z6 Roadtec tires performed flawlessly on the Nero Corsa, BTW...

 

 

I had a similar experience last Sunday. We went on a ride with about 10 other bikes (all Ducati's). After lunch, a couple of guys on a Ducati 998 and and 800 and my wife and I on the Ballabio went and took a little side trip on a nice 10 mile stretch of twisty road leading to the top of a small mountain (VT Rt. 9) with a vista lookout at the top.

 

When we were leaving, the guys on the Ducati's told me to just look for their bikes when I got to the top because they were going to do the road at speed and naturally I wouldn't be able to even keep them in site.

 

You can't imagine how aggravated they were from looking in their mirrors all the way up and seeing me right behind them. And they checked their mirrors a lot ! And me with my wife on the back. They too I think (although I don't think they would ever admit it) were impressed with the Ballabio's acceleration and handling.

 

This proves my point again, that with average riders (not race track guys), the Goose can hang with most bikes and most riders in the twisties.

[dlaing]

I love it!

Now, if bigbore.it would just answer their email <_>

They answered!

 

yes,on your V11 you can have an engine with over 140 hp!

if you have a good mechanic we can send you the parts.

it goes from 5.000 to 8.000 euro depends on how many titanium internal

parts.

 

regards

 

Il giorno 16/mag/07, alle ore 17:55, David Laing ha scritto:

 

> Hi,

> Your website says the big bore kit is for 850 and 1000cc engines.

> Can you make it work on a V11 Sport?

> If so, how much would it cost?

> PS Congratulations on the Guareschi BOT Victory!!! (this inspired

> me to

> investigate this engine in the V11 Spine frame)

> Yours truly,

> David Laing

SWEEEEEET!!!!!

Now I just need a few thousand Euros, some track lessons, some talent, and then I can eat R1s for Breakfast

140HP is a bit much for me, so I might get a restrictive exhaust, something like the QuatD, but more restrictive and in STEREO( 2 into 2 ). Combined with the stock airbox, probably make the final output a much more reasonable for street, 120HP, but still with PLENTY of torque!!!!!!

[Pierre]

They answered!

yes,on your V11 you can have an engine with over 140 hp!

if you have a good mechanic we can send you the parts.

it goes from 5.000 to 8.000 euro depends on how many titanium internal

parts.

 

regards

Ah David, David, David. You persistent bastard, you. I fear this will prompt a new round of unflattering sobriquets directed your way from the resident flat earth contingent.

I hope you're happy with "wot" you've done.

 

[Guest ratchethack]

Ah David, David, David. You persistent bastard, you. I fear this will prompt a new round of unflattering sobriquets directed your way from the resident flat earth contingent.

I hope you're happy with "wot" you've done.

 

So sorry to disappoint, Pierre. This festival of folly surpassed my tolerance threshold on its way past too silly for further interest long ago.

 

If you and Dave can capture any more easily led and self-deluded Space Travelers with your butterfly nets, by all means proceed whither the Fairy Wind doest blow without me. . . [sigh]

 

But by all means, be sure to continue to provide your best evidence of the existence of that "V-11 Hayabusa Eater", won't you?

[Pierre]

... I fear this will prompt a new round of unflattering sobriquets directed your way from the resident flat earth contingent.

 

So sorry to disappoint, Pierre. ...

NOT!

 

If you and Dave can capture any more easily led and self-deluded Space Travelers with your butterfly nets, by all means proceed whither the Fairy Wind doest blow without me. . . [sigh]

Hack, when it comes to personal invective and studied ignorance, you never disappoint.