Rear Drive Seal

[dlaing]

which way does the axle seal (number 10) face?

One side of the seal is flat and the other is grooved and presumably has a retaining spring embedded in the groove.

Does the flat side face towards washer (number 32) or the other way?

[grossohc]

which way does the axle seal (number 10) face?

One side of the seal is flat and the other is grooved and presumably has a retaining spring embedded in the groove.

Does the flat side face towards washer (number 32) or the other way?

 

 

Yes i would put the flat side towards the washer, the drawing shows the groove on no. 10 going the other way.

Gary

[dlaing]

Yes i would put the flat side towards the washer, the drawing shows the groove on no. 10 going the other way.

Gary

Thanks Gary, that jives with what someone else on the SoCal forum said, that the groove and spring side should face the oil, and thus the flat side towards the washer.

[Guest ratchethack]

Dave, the spring you're referring to is not a retaining spring. It serves to "clamp" the lip of the seal tightly around the contact area of the shaft it's sealing against. As mentioned, spring side is always on the inside. If you had it in backwards it can be expected to leak (not seep) like a failed seal.

[dlaing]

Dave, the spring you're referring to is not a retaining spring. It serves to "clamp" the lip of the seal tightly around the contact area of the shaft it's sealing against. As mentioned, spring side is always on the inside. If you had it in backwards it can be expected to leak (not seep) like a failed seal.

OK, clamping spring, not retaining spring.

The first time I had the leak I bought both seals of the axle not knowing which would fix it.

As it turned out it was the larger seal that went bad, but I had knocked out the number 10 seal and figured I should replace it.

The leak was much slower, but it still leaked.

I lost track of which side should go in or out, but I flipped it(I think but in the middle of doing the flip I lost my 100%certainty ) and switched to shockproof heavy and it got a little better, but still leaks, and not as bad as the initial larger seal leak.

So it is possible that I flipped it back to what it was when it leaked.

But it is also possible that the new seal was just too old.

Telling if it is a leak or seep is tricky because it has to make its way out through a labyrinth of grease. It builds up after hours of riding and then spins out on to the wheel.

At first it was difficult to tell if it was oil or grease because the grease was washing out with it, but eventually the red line shockproof's tell tale red could be seen.

For some reason it does not get out through the needle bearing side.

I am going to get a new seal (not expensive) and put it in the right way.

Thanks

[dlaing]

Soooo....

The first time I replaced the seal, apparently it was in backwards, this caused leaking I flipped the seal and apparently got it facing the correct direction, flat side towards washer, grooved side towards oil, but seating the seal appears to be where I went wrong.

I seated the seal fine, but then I drove the large bearing home into the seal.

When the bearing turned, it chewed on the seal.

So, this time, armed with the knowledge of the right direction for the seal to point, I seated the seal with groove toward oil and then drove the bearing only part way home, leaving space between seal and bearing.

120 miles on it today and no leak.

But I am not sure I did it right, nor am I sure I have the right seal.

If the Outer Diameter of the seal were smaller, it might seat further from the bearing and the bearing could be driven fully home, but then I am not sure the seal would seal what it is supposed to seal at it's Inner Diameter.

I am going to simply live with it, but if you have knowledge to share, it could help the next person with this problem, and me when I finally get around to doing it right!

[Guest ratchethack]

. . .I am not sure I did it right, nor am I sure I have the right seal.

If the Outer Diameter of the seal were smaller, it might seat further from the bearing and the bearing could be driven fully home, but then I am not sure the seal would seal what it is supposed to seal at it's Inner Diameter.

Uh, just a coupla thoughts, Dave.

 

I don't mean to be unkind. Really. But my God, man. . . (!)

 

Before replacing a seal, even if never having replaced a seal before -- one can see that the seal has distinctly different sides -- It's the same on every seal -- if you failed to notice which way the old seal came out, wouldn't it be considered -- just generally speaking now -- a pretty good idea to get credible confirmation on which way it goes before you commit to installing a new one? Along the same lines, wouldn't it also -- just generally speaking now -- be a pretty good idea to do wotever it takes to gain credible confirmation that the part number you're installing is the correct one -- up front?

 

Without doing either of these , aren't you just shootin' in the dark and taking a very high risk of having to re-do the work? You've evidently re-done it once already! And now you're asking if you've done it right the second time -- after the fact -- without providing a part number to boot, for wot you used, in case you were interested in making it simple and easy for confirmation purposes at this late date even -- where there's at least some chance of getting it credibly verified?!

 

I have many many struggles, being a simple mortal man....There are SO MANY things that happen in this world that are so far beyond me comprehension. . . Thankfully, when it comes to Guzzi's, at least there are many others, right here on this Forum who possess deep level knowledge backed by decades of credible experience, upon whom one may depend (with all due discretion), with confidence, based upon one's own elementary logical, rational analysis and practical behavior . . .

[dlaing]

Uh, just a coupla thoughts, Dave.

 

I don't mean to be unkind. Really. But my God, man. . . (!)

 

Before replacing a seal, even if never having replaced a seal before -- one can see that the seal has distinctly different sides -- It's the same on every seal -- if you failed to notice which way the old seal came out, wouldn't it be considered -- just generally speaking now -- a pretty good idea to get credible confirmation on which way it goes before you commit to installing a new one? Along the same lines, wouldn't it also -- just generally speaking now -- be a pretty good idea to do wotever it takes to gain credible confirmation that the part number you're installing is the correct one -- up front?

 

Without doing either of these , aren't you just shootin' in the dark and taking a very high risk of having to re-do the work? You've evidently re-done it once already! And now you're asking if you've done it right the second time -- after the fact -- without providing a part number to boot, for wot you used, in case you were interested in making it simple and easy for confirmation purposes at this late date even -- where there's at least some chance of getting it credibly verified?!

 

I have many many struggles, being a simple mortal man....There are SO MANY things that happen in this world that are so far beyond me comprehension. . . Thankfully, when it comes to Guzzi's, at least there are many others, right here on this Forum who possess deep level knowledge backed by decades of credible experience, upon whom one may depend (with all due discretion), with confidence, based upon one's own elementary logical, rational analysis and practical behavior . . .

 

The first leak occured many months ago. It was the large seal not the small seal, but I figured it was better to replace both seals as a preventive measure.

After reading This Old Tractor's Greg Bender mention how it leaks if you put it in backwards, it seemed like it would be easy to fix if it started leaking again.

When it leaked after the first install, I needed verification and I asked. Greg Bender's writing that I read had not mentioned which way was the correct way was.

I got the verification, thank you, but not one tip about how to install so that the seal does not hit the bearing, other than which way to face it.

So, I pull it apart and discover the bearing hit the seal or the seal hit the bearing.

So, now I ask and your response is what I get, useless insults. BRAVO!

Now if someone who was knowledgeable, unlike Ratchet or I, could tell how to install it, life could be wonderful.

Perhaps, someone could also tell me how to verify that the seals are correct.

The original seal I have lost or tossed, so I cannot compare.

The second and third seals are identical, and were both ordered using part number 90 40 38 50 Dimensions are 38 mm ID x 50 mm OD x 7 mm thick. Brand is SACO.

 

There are several ledges where things seat, the outer ledge of the widest diameter seats the bearing with a 55mm OD.

The next ledge is where I seated the 50mm seal and it fits nicely but protrudes into the 55mm area. Maybe if it was 5mm and not 7mm it would not protrude.

There is another ledge where I suspect a smaller seal could seat. I am guessing it the diameter there might be 45mm.

And then one further ledge, with a still smaller diameter, where the washer, part 32, sits.

FWIW, in the diagram it looks like the C clip could retain the bearing, but it does not.

Thanks in advance, someone.

[Guest ratchethack]

The first leak occured many months ago. . . .[many more words, seemingly scrubbed clean of logic, common sense, and rational thinking]

Hmm.

 

Sounds like an absolutely pointless succession of unnecessarily convoluted excursions and repeated wastes of time, effort, and expense to me. . . But then, I'm just a simple man lacking comprehension of the labyrnithine complexities of "advanced" behavior. . .

 

Somewhere in the course o' the aforementioned many months is more'n likely a great walloping sloppy leaking mess, flinging gear lube all about the landscape, which is generally wot's expected from screwing up a seal installation. . .

 

Ain't much to a seal. They have a part number and an orientation, and that's just about all there is to 'em.

 

I b'lieve most of us (myself included) would've verified both -- UP FRONT, before ordering replacement seals in the first place.

 

More'n likely, that would've been the end of it many months ago -- before it blossomed into such an ordeal . . .

 

But I can't speak for others. That's really just me.

[dlaing]

Hmm.

 

Sounds like an absolutely pointless succession of unnecessarily convoluted excursions and repeated wastes of time, effort, and expense to me. . . But then, I'm just a simple man lacking comprehension of the labyrnithine complexities of "advanced" behavior. . .

 

Somewhere in the course o' the aforementioned many months is more'n likely a great walloping sloppy leaking mess, flinging gear lube all about the landscape, which is generally wot's expected from screwing up a seal installation. . .

 

Ain't much to a seal. They have a part number and an orientation, and that's just about all there is to 'em.

 

I b'lieve most of us (myself included) would've verified both -- UP FRONT, before ordering replacement seals in the first place.

 

More'n likely, that would've been the end of it many months ago -- before it blossomed into such an ordeal . . .

 

But I can't speak for others. That's really just me.

Could I please get some help from someone without major issues?

[Guest ratchethack]

Could I please get some help from someone without major issues?

Sorry, Dave. I apologize. Sincerely.

 

I must admit I'm a little frustrated lately.

 

I don't mean to take it out on you, Dave. But doesn't ANYONE take pride in makng a logical, conscientious effort to do ANYTHING properly these days THE FIRST TIME AROUND -- even when working on THEIR OWN STUFF?!?!

 

I have an on-site warrantee contract on my business laptop. I'm sitting here today, one week and 4 days after I opened a Service Request, still dead in the water. The on-site Tech (from a major US Tech Service contractor) arrived one day after the end of the 3-day window I was given last week. He had the wrong replacement mother board with him. We had to start all over and re-order the mother board. More promises were made and violated. A critical part of the new order was never entered. Great unnecessary delays piled on top of numerous missed opportunities to deliver as promised. . .

 

This particular ordeal got launched in the first place when some as yet still unknown somebody failed to verify a correct part number up front. Now everyone has to do the same job they just did over again on the off-chance they might get it right this time around. It's costing me dearly. No accountability. Everybody has excuses, says they did their job, and everybody in the "Chain o' Grief" has fingers pointing elsewhere.

 

We used my well-documented, detailed log of exactly who (by Emp. ID) said wot to whom and when, which details all the commitments given and when they were successively not met on a timeline. It's a clear-as-day string of failed processes and unkept promises. We used my service record log to open a direct line to a VP of the laptop Co. in question yesterday (not tellin' which one, but it's a biggie) -- doesn't seem to matter who it is these days anyway, this seems to've become the accepted norm for sevice delivery no matter where one goes, no matter wot business , The VP has re-re-committed to elevate my case and to handle our Corporate Service Contract personally.

 

Meanwhile, this morning we've just closed yet ANOTHER window of expectation they gave me, with nary a sign of wot was promised. . .

 

[sigh] Is the whole planet sinking into a 3rd World cesspool of abject mendacity?

[raz]

Could I please get some help from someone without major issues?

You two really make me laugh at least once a day!

 

I feel for you Ratch. I get so frustrated dealing with computer sales and support, I'd often rather throw away a faulty computer than try to claim any warranty. With a price on my own time, I figure it's even worth the money in the long run.

 

I come to think of the fax machine slaughter ritual in Office Space

 

I'm sorry for the noise, I can't help with the original question

[dlaing]

Sorry, Dave. I apologize. Sincerely.

Ditto.

Hey, maybe if you help Dan Coronado with his rear leak, you might grasp where I am coming from and have some tips.

I'd be happy to observe and share my experience(experience from learning from mistakes is priceless!), and we could figure out where the seal goes and where the bearing goes and all that.