Brake lights are out

[jrt]

Jason, Show us how you end up wiring in the relay. I'm guessing you can activate one relay with either switch.

 

That's my plan-I was going to use the original brake light wire to activate the relay. I did something similar with the horn a while back.

I've ordered some relay sockets and some more fuse holders, so I was hoping to put them in near their comrades and then it'll look like I knew what I was doing. That's it- that's as far as I've thought it out. If it doesn't work out, I'll probably try to tuck everything (except the fuse) up under the tail section so's it looks neat and clean. I might use some of John's advice and wire in a power distribution center, just so it'll be easier on whomever adds electric fringe in the future.

 

 

Ben..

The good, known hot that I ran through each switch pretty well confirms that the switches are bad. I did check the fuses though. Twice.

[jrt]

OK, I've got new switches and bunch of wiring stuff. So far, I've got the brake switch relay wired in and while I was at it, I put in a power distribution center and a couple new ground wires (that's "earth" to you Triumph guys).

Boy, the fluorescent lights and camera flash sure do something to the color saturation.

This is a prototype of the power distribution center. I broke it, lol, so I made another with 4 outputs. It's rated for 30 A which is way more than necessary.

 

here it is installed. Looks worse in the picture than on the bike. Looks like guts here. The tailpiece will cover everything up. I put a main's fuse on it, then the accessories (taillight power and relay, headlight power and relay, horns power and relay) are run off this.

 

For the life of me, I couldn't find a decent place to mount the relay for the tail lights. The area under the seat is very congested. At least here it will be both accessible and out of the way. The tool pouch and a few spares still fit under the seat. The original brake light switch and ground activate the relay. I ran a new ground to the light. You can see it (it's the single black wire).

 

Here's one of the new ground wires. This one will proved an auxiliary ground for the front forks and anything grounded through them, as well as a direct ground for the headlamps.

 

Next up is new relays for the headlight. Do ya'll just tap into the existing headlight receptacle with spade connectors or did you cut the wires and solder (or crimp) the pigtail onto that?

[mike wilson]

You're correct Mike. I had at first attributed it to the cheapo DVM I was using. The rear switch actually does read 0 Ohms when closed- but.....

 

It's definitive- both (!) switches are bad. I passed a good hot line through each switch and checked them with a test bulb, which only dimly light. So, they probably have dirty points from arcing or something like that (I'm conjecturing). Anyhow, a quick chat with the boys at MGCycle, and $35 worth of new switches are on the way. I'm now going to take John's sage advice and wire in a relay, and wire up the headlight through relays as well a la Gary Cheek. I've been putting that one off, but in light of this issue, I think it is well worth the effort.

Thanks for the help and advice, ya'll.

 

The actual problem is likely to be contamination of the switch contacts. On every occasion that I have had to do emergency repairs, I have found that seepage of lubricant from oiling the lever pivots has contaminated the switch contacts and been burned, causing the switch to gradually go bad. This is especially prevalent when the owner is a "spray with WD40 (or whatever else)" type of chap....

 

Apart from sourcing cheaper versions of brake switches for when they need replacement, I am now also very careful with lubrication. You may also find it helpful to find some way of improving the weather resistance of the area.

[jrt]

I'm definitely a "spray liberally with lubricant" sort of person. That's a very good point, Mike- thanks.

[Guest ratchethack]

The actual problem is likely to be contamination of the switch contacts. On every occasion that I have had to do emergency repairs, I have found that seepage of lubricant from oiling the lever pivots has contaminated the switch contacts and been burned, causing the switch to gradually go bad. This is especially prevalent when the owner is a "spray with WD40 (or whatever else)" type of chap....

I'm definitely a "spray liberally with lubricant" sort of person. That's a very good point, Mike- thanks.

Agreed. It's a point that probably needs repeating. There's a place for different kinds of "spray lubricants", and "everywhere" is not necessarily the place. Despite popular delusion, none is a magic cure-all. Since WD40 is primarily a SOLVENT (very close to Stoddard solvent, which is very close to kerosene, with trace amounts of penetrating oil added) it's no substitute for grease or oil in most applications, and in fact it actually works in many situations to flush out grease and oil lubes and leave the joint dry, inviting corrosion and accelerated wear. Also, contrary to popular delusion, (Part II) WD40 is NOT a proper electrical contact cleaner, as Mike mentioned. It can wreak havoc on switches.

 

Hey Jason -- I just noticed in your last photo above, it looks like the upper socket button-head screw on your bracket that's in the place of the oil cooler mount is backing out.

[dlaing]

The actual problem is likely to be contamination of the switch contacts. On every occasion that I have had to do emergency repairs, I have found that seepage of lubricant from oiling the lever pivots has contaminated the switch contacts and been burned, causing the switch to gradually go bad. This is especially prevalent when the owner is a "spray with WD40 (or whatever else)" type of chap....

 

Apart from sourcing cheaper versions of brake switches for when they need replacement, I am now also very careful with lubrication. You may also find it helpful to find some way of improving the weather resistance of the area.

I don't think overspray or seepage of WD40 at the lever pivots should cause switch failure.

Maybe Chain lube would cause a problem.

I would recommend disassembly of pivot levers to apply grease, rather than relying on penetrating lubricants.

[dlaing]

Next up is new relays for the headlight. Do ya'll just tap into the existing headlight receptacle with spade connectors or did you cut the wires and solder (or crimp) the pigtail onto that?

You can get socket connectors that fit the existing wiring.

Or you can get a pre-fabbed harness from Eastern Beaver.

But doing it with spades or solder is fine, too.

Maybe someone else has advice about crimping and soldering.

I did not want the permanence of solder, and I am no good at crimping, so I got Gary Cheek to help me with that.

You will love the difference in brightness!

[Guest ratchethack]

I don't think overspray or seepage of WD40 at the lever pivots should cause switch failure.

No professional electronics Tech worth his salt would ever get WD40 anywhere near any kind of electrical/electronic component. The long-term effects of WD40 on electrical contacts are well known, generally very detrimental to electrical/electronic gear, and it's never recommended by Pro's. Electricians and electronic Techs use stuff specifically designed for the task, such as Caig DeoxIT: http://www.caig.com/.

 

NOTE: Caig Laboratories is located within miles of where I live, but I have NO interests in, or associations with the company. It's just one example of many providers of contact cleaner. I've used many kinds of contact cleaners for years, primarily CRC: http://www.crcindustries.com/catalog/image...asers/02130.jpg

[dlaing]

No professional electronics Tech worth his salt would ever get WD40 anywhere near any kind of electrical/electronic component. The long-term effects of WD40 on electrical contacts are well known and generally very detrimental. Electricians and electronic Techs use stuff specifically designed for the task, such as Caig DetoxIT: http://www.caig.com/.

 

NOTE: Caig is located within miles of where I live, but I have NO interests or associations with the company. I've used many kinds of contact cleaners for years, primarily CRC: http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/

Is that what you recommend for brake lever lubrication?

I'll stick to grease, but maybe I should switch to using dielectric grease if I am so close to electrical contacts.

But in a pinch, the DetoxIT may be a better choice for the lever lubrication

Ooops, just looked it up and it appears to be a product for stoners to pass drug tests

I did find Deoxit but it does not appear to be a lubricant.

[Guest ratchethack]

Is that what you recommend for brake lever lubrication?

No. I use and recommend BTWBG (boat trailer wheel bearing grease) for brake lever pivots.

 

I did find Deoxit but it does not appear to be a lubricant.

Per the Web site, it's not a lubricant. Caig DeoxIT is an electrical contact cleaner. It would be suitable for use on brake light switches, much like CRC and similar products.

[dlaing]

No. I use and recommend BTWBG (boat trailer wheel bearing grease) for brake lever pivots.

OK I guess the WD40 may seep over to the electrical contacts under that non-waterproof rubber boot, but water proof grease should not seep over there.

I still find it a little hard to believe it would seep over there, but I guess so if you combine it with over-spray reaching above the connectors, it could seep in there.

I know painters hate WD-40 because a little overspray can cause problems if you try to paint where the WD-40 went.

I have used WD-40 on Stainless Steel Convertibars, but I spray on to a rag and then rub it in, especially into the weld that have been showing hints of rust

I should probably use some navy jelly and protect it with something else.

[Guest ratchethack]

Per previous threads on the topic, IMHO, WD-40 does have its place, but this tends to be a lot more limited than the way most people use it. IMHO, its marketing genius is that WD-40 has successfully created a "Spray & Pray Voodoo Sub-culture" that magically absolves the consumer of all responsibility for proper maintenance of anything, and by some kind of religious "leap of faith", makes it's devotees believe that it works as a magic potion to drive out evil spirits. Apparently, it's most frequent users believe it's good for such things as car batteries when the motor won't start, generally anywhere and everywhere under the hood (like sprinkling holy water in an exorcism) when it still won't start, and that it can make anything bad that the the idiot light on the dashboard might represent go away. Further, it seems to be well accepted for just about anything else, including use as elbow-joint liniment, as a cure for erectile dysfunction, as a window cleaner, as a cold remedy, birth control, fish attractant, ant killer, after shave lotion, charcoal lighter, mosquito repellent, etc. .

 

Neither brake lever pivots, or brake light switches are the right places to use it, IMHO. In fact (as with many, if not most ways it's actually used) it can (and does) do a lot more harm than good in both.

I have used WD-40 on Stainless Steel Convertibars, but I spray on to a rag and then rub it in, especially into the weld that have been showing hints of rust

Dave, have you tried sacrificing a chicken, smearing it's blood on an altar, reciting ancient sacred Hatian magic chants by candlelight, and invoking the Great Spirit of Rust Protection with ritual incense? If you do all of this while spraying mouthfuls of rum on the candles by the light of a full moon, many "believers" swear that this helps.

[jrt]

Wow, I go away a couple hours and you guys leave more notes than I ever did.

 

Dave/Ratchet- I don't use WD-40 for much of anything other than penetrant and sometimes lubricant for drilling. I use a teflon-embedded lubricant for the levers. When I have them off, I clean and grease them.

 

Hey Jason -- I just noticed in your last photo above, it looks like the upper socket button-head screw on your bracket that's in the place of the oil cooler mount is backing out.

 

It's an elliptical optusion. They are fully in and tight. Thanks for the heads up though- I just went down and checked them. They are holding in the oil bracket as well as a set of crashbars (that's the silver part).

 

 

 

You can get socket connectors that fit the existing wiring.

Or you can get a pre-fabbed harness from Eastern Beaver.

But doing it with spades or solder is fine, too.

Maybe someone else has advice about crimping and soldering.

I did not want the permanence of solder, and I am no good at crimping, so I got Gary Cheek to help me with that.

You will love the difference in brightness!

 

And if I had any sense, I would have done the same. Gary has been very generous to members here, but I can solder, so I don't think it's right that I let him do my work (although I'm sure he's cool enough not to mind). I think I'm just going to use spade inserts- the current is so small and this way if there is an emergency, then it can be put back to stock.

[dlaing]

Wow, I go away a couple hours and you guys leave more notes than I ever did.

 

Dave/Ratchet- I don't use WD-40 for much of anything other than penetrant and sometimes lubricant for drilling. I use a teflon-embedded lubricant for the levers. When I have them off, I clean and grease them.

It's an elliptical optusion. They are fully in and tight. Thanks for the heads up though- I just went down and checked them. They are holding in the oil bracket as well as a set of crashbars (that's the silver part).

And if I had any sense, I would have done the same. Gary has been very generous to members here, but I can solder, so I don't think it's right that I let him do my work (although I'm sure he's cool enough not to mind). I think I'm just going to use spade inserts- the current is so small and this way if there is an emergency, then it can be put back to stock.

 

I too can solder . But I can't crimp multiplex connectors , so Gary offered to help. I probably should have went with solder and crimped spades. It is not as pretty, but should work just as well, and it will take up less space inside the lamp.

 

As for the teflon embedded lubricant, I imagine that would be about as good for your electrical connection as WD-40, but you are not spraying it there, right? I am not sure why Mike and Ratchet find it to be such a threat to your contacts when you are using it on the lever pivots. But as usual, my disagreement has resulted in another endless dialog.

SORRY.

I'll try to shut up now before someone demands a moderator

[mike wilson]

Per previous threads on the topic, IMHO, WD-40 does have its place, but this tends to be a lot more limited than the way most people use it. IMHO, its marketing genius is that WD-40 has successfully created a "Spray & Pray Voodoo Sub-culture" that magically absolves the consumer of all responsibility for proper maintenance of anything, and by some kind of religious "leap of faith", makes it's devotees believe that it works as a magic potion to drive out evil spirits. <_ apparently it most frequent users believe good for such things as car batteries when the motor won start generally anywhere and everywhere under hood sprinkling holy water in an exorcism still that can make anything bad idiot light on dashboard might represent go away.>

 

I once borrowed a car from a friend. When I returned it, I pointed out that there was a roadspeed-related vibration and that I suspected there was a problem with the (remember these?) propshaft. He said he would look at it that afternoon. A couple of hours later, I called round. Sure enough, it was up on ramps and there was a pair of legs sticking out. I heard "hiss, hiss" "hiss, hiss". He then shuffled out from underneath clutching a can of WD-40. _That's_ a believer.......