Cornering on a V11 - techniques?

[raz]

The feeling I had when cornering is strange, like the bike wants wobble when I'm in a lean (and not a low lean at that!)

 

I had that sympthom after winter. It felt as "controlled wobble" but it was not a good feeling. Low amplitude, low frequency. At first I suspected the pattern of the new front tyre.

 

During winter I had counted clicks on rebound and compression screws, and then set them to lower damping. Apparently somewhere in the process I counted from the wrong end on one of the screws, from fully in instead of fully out. This apparently produced a very bad setting, with much higher damping in one of the directions. After fixing that it was rocky steady again. I was amazed it made such a big difference.

[waspp]

I would agree with the others here, check your suspension settings and your tires. I have noticed when a tire gets squared off in the rear it feels clunkey (technical term), but you should feel real confident in the coners and notice the absence of chicken strips on those skins!

[Baldini]

What tyres? Are they worn?

 

KB

[slowkitty]

What tyres? Are they worn?

 

Metzlers Z6s both front and back, not worn, though 2 years old. So far the check list is:

 

a. Rear wheel bearings ???

b. Steering damper (mine is on lowest or least resistance setting)

c. front spacer whether correct side ???

d. suspension settings (front ohlins (replacement direct from Germany), used to be soft, have adjusted it to harder). Have not touched the rear stock ohlins settings

e. clip-ons - stock narrow ones

f. tire pressures - I reckon within range? 37, 39

g. bent rims ???

 

Did I miss out anything? Thanks for the help, guys, looks like a busy weekend with the V11!

 

Cheers

 

Cat

[raz]

 

Metzlers Z6s both front and back, not worn, though 2 years old. So far the check list is:

 

a. Rear wheel bearings ???

b. Steering damper (mine is on lowest or least resistance setting)

c. front spacer whether correct side ???

d. suspension settings (front ohlins (replacement direct from Germany), used to be soft, have adjusted it to harder). Have not touched the rear stock ohlins settings

e. clip-ons - stock narrow ones

f. tire pressures - I reckon within range? 37, 39

g. bent rims ???

 

Did I miss out anything? Thanks for the help, guys, looks like a busy weekend with the V11!

 

Cheers

 

Cat

I'm just a dilettant amateur so this is merely random input for you:

I love my Z6 front and my Z4 rear will be switched to a Z6 next time, that's for sure. Front spacer should sit on rider's left side. Pressure is fine. If you have bent rims you'd notice in the straights too. There are threads here somewhere dealing with swing adjustment so the rear is in line. You might want to check that. You might also want to check steering head bearing, and play. Pretty easy check. Stuff some grease in it when you're at it, it is always needed.

 

My way of checking wheel bearings is take wheel off, put finger in bearing and turn around. Any un-even sensation is bad. Bearings are cheap. I don't know if this method is the Right Thing™ but it works for me so far.

 

Last... if you haven't owned the bike since new, just consider the possibility the frame's been bent. Let's hope you don't even have to go there, but it may be next thing to check. There are ways to determine this, like triangle measuring, or loosening engine mounts and see where the subframe wants to go. There are threads on this too.

[Ouiji Veck]

Yup...

Start with the front end. Just grab the front tire 180 deg.apart and give it

a few good shakes. See if it pivots at all on the axle That would be the best news.

front wheel bearing.

If the bearrings seem fine, get the front end off the ground..(various methods..none pretty)

Grab the forks and give 'em a yank for and aft and side to side. (may need extra hands)

to check the steering head bearings..there should be absolutely zero slop.

 

If nothings suspicious yet check the rear wheel bearings by same primitive methods.

(Hey..it's a Guzzi)

 

The wheel bearings are mercifully easy fixes and the stearing head bearings may just need

tightning and grease.

 

These are first because they're the quickest things to check...and most suspect.

Next ..suspension. .. fore and aft. Not so quick but should be cheked any way.

I direct you to the "search" feature here...there's VOLUMES..to much info really but

you'll be an expert when your done.

Good luck...we're all rootin' for ya.

[dlaing]

The bikes you are comparing it to are more stable, but the V11 should NOT be unstable.

 

HUH?

I've switched with 3 of my Bmer buddies this season...1 RT and 2 R1150s

Everyone came away amazed at how sure footed the LeMans was in comparison.

Especially me who couldn't wait to get back on it after those wallowing buffalo's.

I'm a big fan of the R1150 too. Looks, power, utilitary simplicity but after riding 2 of them

they're scratched off my list directly because of the wishy washy handling.

Maybe it's the 25 yrs. of clipons. Anything else feels "wrong".

Heck I don't know.

I have never ridden a telelever beemer.

The pre-telelever Beemers that I have ridden seemed very stable, near to the point of boring.

But sitting on the telelever Beemer, they have a riding position that I find more stable feeling.

I find the V11 to be a combination of top heavy and flickable that would eat non-Ohlins equipped Beemers for supper on the race track.

I can only imagine the Beemer being slower handling and more stable in all aspects other than wallowing from being under-sprung and lacking rebound damping.

But that type of wallowing is a different type of instability than the nervousness that a V11 can have.

This review and others that I have read prior to buying the Guzzi led me to believe the BMW was more stable

http://archives.motorcycle-usa.com/2004BMW...ziBallabio.html

And in high-performance situations, the front end of the Guzzi exhibited a nervousness that left us uneasy about how close we've come to the finding its limitations, even with the stock steering damper cranked down. Its 25-degree rake with 103mm of trail is much more radical steering geometry than the Rockster's generous 27-degree rake and 127mm of trail.

Of course these reviewers are often full of it. After all, we know that cranking the steerin damper down tight can ruin the handling.

IMHO a poorly set up V11 can be a bad thing. I fully agree that a V11 can be more stable than your average BMW, but I don't think it is the nature of the Guzzi as it comes off the showroom floor, unless your dealer is extraordinary and drops the forks in the triples, sets the sag, etc.

[WitchCityBallabio]

FWIW, I've never experienced the "nervousness" that they described in that review and I push my Ballabio pretty hard, often with two up.

[Baldini]

Metzlers Z6s both front and back, not worn, though 2 years old. .....Did I miss out anything?..

 

2yrs old? part worn? How much left on them? worn even? Uneven wear can cause very unsteady steering (eg: BT020's cup bad on front = very uncertain tracking). Dunno Metzelers, tyres vary.

 

another thing to check is s/a bearings - no play?

 

wandering at low speeds/not much lean, sounds to me like a tyre or bad bearing, loose wrong fitted part, st damper etc. rather than suspension tuning (having said that, Ohlins 've got so much range of adjustment they can be set up really bad as raz noted) or somethings bent/broken?

 

Like they say V11 is pretty stable, but has to be ridden s-m-o-o-t-h-l-y. Harsh inputs w/ throttle, brake, wt transfer or steering can get it very flustered. V11's very back end heavy - as mDude said you need to get as much wt forward as possible. Cornering is more planted if you can get your wt onto the front wheel. Raising forks in triple clamps half inch improves things (Mine's Scura w/Ohlins, you have Ohlins? watch for clearances) & obviously getting suspension tuned for you wt etc. When you say you hardened front Ohlins - you mean damping? Scura came w/ soft springs & I had to replace front & rear w/stiffer to get it to work. You shouldn't need vast preload or damping. Dunno your forks/springs? or your wt? but it may well be you need do same? What are Ohlins for/off, they didn't come w/ bike?

 

What bars you got on? With rear wt bias, tall/wide bars can give lot of unwanted rider input, making steering feel vague/unsteady - also luggage/screens etc can unsettle steering.

 

KB

[JoeV11]

Just to add my opinion to the many here, the suspension settings are key. Even a few clicks/turns makes a big difference. I had my V11 set up soft because the roads here in CT suck, and the bike would want to stand up in bumpy turns. When I went for a trip to upstate NY, I found the bike would wallow on long sweepers. I only added three clicks to the rear and half a turn to the front dampers and it made the bike real stable. Of course when I returned to CT it was back to soft. Joe

[nigev11]

I concurr witht everything posted but want to add one thing; make sure you have the right sized tyres!

 

I bought my 01 v11 about 6 months ago (after 10 years with a mkv). I found its handling quite peculiar at first. adjusted a few thinsg and got it better.

 

The riding style you need is abit different to what Ive experienced before. You have to steer these things from your arse and with your knees as someone else said. Relax and let the bars goa bit. Feel the bikes COG and use it. Mine starts to feel nervous and harsh of i try to steer it too much.

 

Replaced the tyres and discovered the rear was oversized and squared off. The difference was nothing short of astounding; re-adjusted all the suspension, overhauled the forks and hey presto.

 

nuetral, (like a beigist)

on rails (like a junkie?)

smooooooth (like a puddin)

 

 

nigev11

[slowkitty]

Like they say V11 is pretty stable, but has to be ridden s-m-o-o-t-h-l-y. Harsh inputs w/ throttle, brake, wt transfer or steering can get it very flustered. V11's very back end heavy - as mDude said you need to get as much wt forward as possible. Cornering is more planted if you can get your wt onto the front wheel. Raising forks in triple clamps half inch improves things (Mine's Scura w/Ohlins, you have Ohlins? watch for clearances) & obviously getting suspension tuned for you wt etc. When you say you hardened front Ohlins - you mean damping? Scura came w/ soft springs & I had to replace front & rear w/stiffer to get it to work. You shouldn't need vast preload or damping. Dunno your forks/springs? or your wt? but it may well be you need do same? What are Ohlins for/off, they didn't come w/ bike?

 

What bars you got on? With rear wt bias, tall/wide bars can give lot of unwanted rider input, making steering feel vague/unsteady - also luggage/screens etc can unsettle steering.

KB

 

Thks, will try to answer ...

 

The bike is a Scura that I had the Ohlins replaced because the old forks were slightly bent after the ex-owner went down. The tech told me that the frame alignment is still good (it runs true when travelling straight ). The hardening I referred to was the adjustment of the pre-load with the hex nut on top of the FG43 Ohlins forks. Off the stock settings I twisted it just a notch. I weigh about 160 lbs.

 

Bars are stock; no luggage or screen yet. Tyres are not worn nor squared. Will try the forward weight theory this weekend. On weekdays I go around on my scooter.

 

BTW, when I told my Jackal fren the feedback that the V11 corners like on rails, eh .... he went bananas.

 

Cheers

 

Cat

[Murray]

Never had a good experince with the metzlers especailly when they get old and worn athough not familar with the Z6's. I'd be getting rid of them Scura's had a reputation for pretty stiff shoocks especailly in the rear's might be worth getting looked at as you are probally much lighter than the average lard arse V11 rider (me included). With suspension start with your static sags first everthing works off the suitablity of the springs if they aren't right you're pretty hard pressed to get the suspension right. Find out if its got a steering dampener and back it right out this can cover up other problems and with the conservative geomerty of the v11's they are of dubious value.

 

Genral riding be smooth sort out the braking and then tip in and power out just before the apex.

[Ouiji Veck]

Anyone thats got a nervous feeling V11 better set it up like mine.

Feeling extremely stable at 80mph in posted 50mph turns is my watermark of a decent

motorcycle. My 02 LeMans I love because it's even more confident feeling than my last

2 CBR 1000s and my Ducati SS. which were pretty decent bikes in their own right.

How do I have mine set up? In a word, STIFF.

[Baldini]

... the ex-owner went down. The tech told me that the frame alignment is still good (it runs true when travelling straight )....

 

Was the bare frame checked visually/on a jig for alignment? It does seem it's pretty easy to bend these around the headstock/top spine with fairly minor impacts. Motor mounts in timing chest should align fairly well with sub frame when bolts removed (motor supported), if not, could indicate damage. Any oil leaks around cases?

 

Has the bike always had this problem since you got it or has it just cropped up?

 

KB