Throttle Position Sensor

[thebronze]

 

All that I can say about this is my base TPS setting is about 250mV, not 150, and I've had my A/F ratio monitored on a dyno and it is right where it should be.

 

You've probably seen this thread before but here's where the "Micha method" was first discussed on this forum:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13188&hl=Micha

 

I would only advocate it for people like me who can't get their bikes to run right using the posted method.

 

Tom, my bike does not run right with the 150/520 tps settings. It ran slightly better at 165/520mv baseline with air bleed closed. I'm going to try your recommendations, can you list your settings for me? The micha method doesnt summarize the settings as clearly as the TPS FAQ.

 

1. Baseline tps (250mv?)

2. Idle speed and idle tps reading(?)

3. Air bleed screw settings(1 turn out?)

[Tom M]

Tom, my bike does not run right with the 150/520 tps settings. It ran slightly better at 165/520mv baseline with air bleed closed. I'm going to try your recommendations, can you list your settings for me? The micha method doesnt summarize the settings as clearly as the TPS FAQ.

 

1. Baseline tps (250mv?)

2. Idle speed and idle tps reading(?)

3. Air bleed screw settings(1 turn out?)

 

Ignore the baseline setting altogether and follow the steps below. Make sure your right side idle stop screw is backed all the way off and the high idle cam isn't touching the throttle linkage before you sync the TBs and set the idle. When you set the TPS it may change the idle so you might have to go back & forth once or twice to get the idle & TPS settings right.

 

Hope it works for you...

 

Step one - Set your valves to world settings (.15mm/.006" intake, .2mm/.008" exhaust)

Step two - Set your air bleed screws to 1 full turn open.

Step three - Synch throttle bodies at just off idle (around 1800 rpm)

Step four - Set idle to 1100 using left idle screw adjuster only

Step five - Loosen TPS screws and rotate TPS to 3.6 degrees (530mV)

Step six - Ensure idle trim is set to zero. This requires an AXEONE dealer tool or VDST software.

[68C]

Best set the 530Mv (or whatever setting you want) with the engine running/idling , it will change from a static engine due to the vacuum pulling on the butterfly, about 10Mv higher in my case.

[thebronze]

Tom, were your problems with the hiccup ONLY when the bike warms up? My bike runs perfect for about 10-15 minutes and then it starts the hiccup and bucking. I'm starting to think this isnt a TPS problem, its more of a sensor that isnt working.

 

The PO deleted the airbox and ziptied the air temp sensor to the outside of the case behind the air filter. I cant see that its any hotter there then where it was inside the air box but it might be worth looking into putting it somewhere else

[Tom M]

Tom, were your problems with the hiccup ONLY when the bike warms up? My bike runs perfect for about 10-15 minutes and then it starts the hiccup and bucking. I'm starting to think this isnt a TPS problem, its more of a sensor that isnt working.

 

The PO deleted the airbox and ziptied the air temp sensor to the outside of the case behind the air filter. I cant see that its any hotter there then where it was inside the air box but it might be worth looking into putting it somewhere else

 

When my bike was lean it didn't cough until it was warmed up. Correcting the TPS cured it. It doesn't sound like yours is as far off as mine was so maybe the TPS isn't your problem.

 

As long as you note what your air screws and TPS are set at now it wouldn't hurt to try the Micha tuneup. If you aren't happy you can return to where you're at now.

 

As I said a while back, the easiest way to see if you do have a sensor problem is to connect your bike to a factory Axone reader or VDST. You could bench test the sensors according to the tables in the shop manual, but even if they test OK you won't know if the ECU is seeing their outputs without hooking up to a diagnostic tool. If you connect to the ECU you could check your idle trim setting at the same time. If the idle trim is way off that can really screw up your attempts to set the TPS.

 

Chances are that means a trip to a dealer unless you can find a local Guzzisti with VDST. Where are you located?

[thebronze]

When my bike was lean it didn't cough until it was warmed up. Correcting the TPS cured it. It doesn't sound like yours is as far off as mine was so maybe the TPS isn't your problem.

 

As long as you note what your air screws and TPS are set at now it wouldn't hurt to try the Micha tuneup. If you aren't happy you can return to where you're at now.

 

As I said a while back, the easiest way to see if you do have a sensor problem is to connect your bike to a factory Axone reader or VDST. You could bench test the sensors according to the tables in the shop manual, but even if they test OK you won't know if the ECU is seeing their outputs without hooking up to a diagnostic tool. If you connect to the ECU you could check your idle trim setting at the same time. If the idle trim is way off that can really screw up your attempts to set the TPS.

 

Chances are that means a trip to a dealer unless you can find a local Guzzisti with VDST. Where are you located?

 

Im 30 minutes north of Dallas, TX. If anyone local has the software and could take a look i'd buy them a case of beer. I do have an appointment at the shop next week. I was trying to get things worked out by then and save some money. But my mechanic has O2 analyzers and I would hope he has the VDST. He actually worked at the guzzi dealership here in town and is familiar with the lean map and the "hiccup". I think i'm going to focus on the multiple oil leaks and let him solve the FI issue.

[Tom M]

Good luck with it and please let us know what the problem was once you get it sorted.

[thebronze]

Good luck with it and please let us know what the problem was once you get it sorted.

 

Well I tried your method and damn if it didnt almost work perfectly. 1 full turn out on the bleeds, 250mv baseline tps, idle at 530mv/1100. I can now hold a line at 3-4k rpm and it will idle at stop signs and lights. There's still a little hiccup but lower in the rpm range. Its around 2k instead of 3-4. I may need to synch the TB's at a higher rpm and run in the bleeds just a tad but this is the best its run in a while. I'm usually by myself so i'm having a hard time synching the TB's at 1800. I still have some massive oil leaks coming from the top of the case behind the oil cooler to contend with. Thanks again everyone for all the help.

[Tom M]

Good luck with it and please let us know what the problem was once you get it sorted.

 

Well I tried your method and damn if it didnt almost work perfectly. 1 full turn out on the bleeds, 250mv baseline tps, idle at 530mv/1100. I can now hold a line at 3-4k rpm and it will idle at stop signs and lights. There's still a little hiccup but lower in the rpm range. Its around 2k instead of 3-4. I may need to synch the TB's at a higher rpm and run in the bleeds just a tad but this is the best its run in a while. I'm usually by myself so i'm having a hard time synching the TB's at 1800. I still have some massive oil leaks coming from the top of the case behind the oil cooler to contend with. Thanks again everyone for all the help.

 

That's good news. At least it's rideable now. If you can't get rid of the sneeze it still might be worth it to check your idle trim.

 

The timing sensor in front of the left cylinder is a common oil leak source. If it's oily in that area you can easily remove it (2 screws) and either replace the o-ring or do what I did; add a little silicone gasket sealer around the ring and on the case.

[thebronze]

Mechanic just called with bad news. My tps settings were correct and if anything a bit too rich. He said that the stock computer will only work with the stock air box. The pod filters are creating the problem. I guess the factory map was a bit on the lean side and now the filters are making it a lot worse. He said the only real fix was to find a new fuel map, or ECU designed for pod filters. Or just put the stock air box back on. I believe the PO tossed the stock air box so I'm stuck with the ECU option. Can you guys please let me know where to look now? Is it possible to flash the ecu and load a new image or are my options limited to a new aftermarket ECU?

[luhbo]

Best option in my eyes is to get you an airbox online.

 

Second best probably were to let things as they are now. Your last comment 'sounded' as if you were quite happy with the bike now.

 

Third best would be to cheat the air temperature signal by using a resistor instead of the sensor. Air temperature has not much effect on the mixture what on the other hand makes cheating easy. Besides that, pods usually restrict air flow, so your actual mixture might rather be rich than too lean.

 

Hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

 

The PO deleted the airbox and ziptied the air temp sensor to the outside of the case behind the air filter. I cant see that its any hotter there then where it was inside the air box but it might be worth looking into putting it somewhere else

The air temperature sensor would measure the temperature around the front of the bike because that's where the stock air box intakes air from. I cut my sensor apart and extended it to the front of the tank but I doubt it makes much difference.

 

With pods you need some form of velocity stack or you will get a flat spot.

 

Note the beuties on Dave's bike

[Skeeve]

...

With pods you need some form of velocity stack or you will get a flat spot.

 

Note the beuties on Dave's bike

 

Good point, Kiwi!

 

Usually, when deleting the airbox for pods, the mod'er will reuse the velocity stacks from the stock airbox. If the PO didn't know to do this, then a pair of the spiffy alloy aftermarket jobs will look a lot better and probably be easier to find than an unmolested stock airbox to pull some plastic ones from.

 

As far as the ECU question goes, AFAIK your only options are the Dynojet PCIII, one or two aftermarket reflash options, or a MyECU from Jeffries.

 

The PCIII is easiest, because it's plug & play & there's a wealth of maps for V11s w/ pods already done up for you to download. Downside is electrical gremlins from the extra connections, but a little extra prep & dielectric grease should solve that for you.

[Tom M]

Airboxes turn up on ebay fairly often. I got one for $10 a few years back because nobody else bid on it. I don't think there's a big demand for them.

[thebronze]

Airboxes turn up on ebay fairly often. I got one for $10 a few years back because nobody else bid on it. I don't think there's a big demand for them.

 

Cool, i'll look into that. I just tested the air temp sensor and it works really well. It was reading something like 1.35. I put the heat gun near it and watched it drop down to .35 in a few seconds. I relocated it under the seat away from the motor. I'll take a test drive later tonight and see what happens.

 

At this point i'm thinking the tuneboy software is the way to go. I had plans on putting an exhaust kit on there so at some point in time i'll need to look into the fuel map. A friend of mine with a triumph told me about something called tune ecu freeware. It works with ducati so it might be worth a shot. I just need to figure out what kind of cable I need.