Throttle Position Sensor

[guzzijack]

My apologies. I missed your point. It definitely looks like you have a defective TPS. Even though 10mv isn't much, there may also be to large a deadzone where the wiper contact is rubbing on the end of the resistor's span.

 

It's not 10mv that it's out - it's 160mV <_ he can get it to go lower than with the tps removed from bike and in rest zeroed position.>

 

Phil, that TPS is screwed and you need to get another one. BTW whatever TPS values you have been given or have measured on your Sport1100i they don't really apply to this thread as the V11Sport with the WM15M is totally different from the WM16M setup - idle is 2.1degrees Sport1100i v 3.6degrees V11Sport - quite a difference.

 

If you want the PF3C TPS and not the PF4C Harley one and don't want to shell out megabucks at a Guzzi dealer, then locate a Webcon dealer or order direct from Webcon (Weber) themselves in the UK - should run at about £78 inc vat.

 

GJ

[raz]

BTW whatever TPS values you have been given or have measured on your Sport1100i they don't really apply to this thread as the V11Sport with the WM15M is totally different from the WM16M setup.

Well the ECU "black-box" inside is different but the TPS, throttle bodies and basic setup (including the mV figures) is exactly the same. The only step that's different is you can set CO with a screwdriver instead of software.

[guzzijack]

Well the ECU "black-box" inside is different but the TPS, throttle bodies and basic setup (including the mV figures) is exactly the same. The only step that's different is you can set CO with a screwdriver instead of software.

 

Er, since when is a 16M the same as a 15M? And I make 2.1degrees a bit different from 3.6degrees and their respective mV conversions. I never mentioned the basic setup procedure as being different but the idle mV readings, (apart from the 150mV base setting), are way different.

 

GJ

[raz]

 

Er, since when is a 16M the same as a 15M? And I make 2.1degrees a bit different from 3.6degrees and their respective mV conversions. I never mentioned the basic setup procedure as being different but the idle mV readings, (apart from the 150mV base setting), are way different.

 

GJ

I never said the 16M is the same as the 15M, just that the TPS and its setup are the same. I was confident about that but apparently I was wrong about the higher mV readings, sorry!

[Ryland3210]

It's not 10mv that it's out - it's 160mV <_ he can get it to go lower than with the tps removed from bike and in rest zeroed position.>

 

Phil, that TPS is screwed and you need to get another one. BTW whatever TPS values you have been given or have measured on your Sport1100i they don't really apply to this thread as the V11Sport with the WM15M is totally different from the WM16M setup - idle is 2.1degrees Sport1100i v 3.6degrees V11Sport - quite a difference.

 

If you want the PF3C TPS and not the PF4C Harley one and don't want to shell out megabucks at a Guzzi dealer, then locate a Webcon dealer or order direct from Webcon (Weber) themselves in the UK - should run at about £78 inc vat.

 

GJ

 

You misinterpreted my comment.

 

The 10 mv I referred to is the difference between 160 and 150 mv. The point I was making was that even though that degree of error might not seem so much, the TPS should be replaced because the sensor was against its internal stop at that point. For example, suppose it stayed at 160 mv for another 3 degrees of opening before finally entering the proportional range of the sensor: not an acceptable situation.

[dlaing]

dlaing,

 

The link to the valve adjustment does not work on my computer. It should either be fixed, if possible, or deleted.

 

With that change, and your pictures, I think it's useful. I see nothing to lose in placing it in both How To and FAQ. Both of these make sense, and will be places people will look for this kind of guidance.

 

I'd like to submit it to Guzzitech as well, with suitable credit to ourselves as authors and acknowledging contributions by others.

I posted the how to here http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12204

Check out the photos!!! Could be better, as lighting was not good. In retrospect, I would have used more text colors and have the color of the text in the photo match the text in the instructions. Feel free to re-do the photos. Numbered steps might be another good option.

If Jimbemotumbo or Jaap want to "pin" the topic in the how-to forum, that would be appreciated.

Please try to keep comments on the how-to here, and then I will edit the how-to in the how-to section. If anyone wants there names taken off the how-to, please post or PM the request. We might edit the list down a little as not everyone contributed substantially....

I also plan to post it here http://www.geocities.com/rcdlaing/

I too noticed the broken link. The product of too much copying and pasting and how this forum abreviates links. The link is fixed. If there is a good how-to on valve adjustment here or at Guzzitech, we should use those instead, not because there is anything wrong with Lex's how to, but just for consistency...Maybe we should do one for valves, too????

[docc]

Dlaing, Ryland:

 

Thanks for taking the time to see this through while patiently considering all the input and comments.

[Guest Phil_P]

Looks like my TPS is probably OK. I had been using the Power Commander software to look at the TPS voltage, and it would seem that the results that it produces are not accurate. Resorting to the simpler expedient of the Digital Multi-meter resulted in much better results.

 

If anyone is interested in using a Harley TPS in the UK or environs, I believe I have found a good source (Three Spires) here in the UK. Could hardly believe it, but I posted an enquiry to the firm, and the owner turned out to be a long time friend of mine that I had lost touch with. Two birds, one stone, cool.

[Ryland3210]

I posted the how to here http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12204

Check out the photos!!! Could be better, as lighting was not good. In retrospect, I would have used more text colors and have the color of the text in the photo match the text in the instructions. Feel free to re-do the photos. Numbered steps might be another good option.

If Jimbemotumbo or Jaap want to "pin" the topic in the how-to forum, that would be appreciated.

Please try to keep comments on the how-to here, and then I will edit the how-to in the how-to section. If anyone wants there names taken off the how-to, please post or PM the request. We might edit the list down a little as not everyone contributed substantially....

I also plan to post it here http://www.geocities.com/rcdlaing/

I too noticed the broken link. The product of too much copying and pasting and how this forum abreviates links. The link is fixed. If there is a good how-to on valve adjustment here or at Guzzitech, we should use those instead, not because there is anything wrong with Lex's how to, but just for consistency...Maybe we should do one for valves, too????

 

On the subject of whose names to include, the guideline I suggest including only those who added accurate factual data or insights which turned out to be valid. Others which asked questions or posed alternatives which turned out not to be valid should be left out. However, all comments should be retained in this thread with a link to it in the How To section.

 

The less references to other procedures, the better, especially if they have not been subjected to a thorough, non-biased analysis. They should be addressed the same way this one was. Case in point: Taking your own comment on valve adjustment as an example, which one should be used? If there is any doubt, a thorough analysis like the one we have done here should be the subject of a separate thread. If a good procedure is the outcome, then post it in its own thread in How To section.

 

These are the reasons why I was not in favor of posting a link on valve adjustment or any other procedure in this thread. I was OK with raising the possibility of doing a valve adjustment. Actually the TPS procedure has value whether or not a valve adjustment is done, but I got a little tired and chose not to argue the point. I regret that now.

 

Bottom line is, given the question of which valve adjustment should be referenced in the TPS procedure, I would like to see the link deleted.

 

Then, let's go to work on the valve adjustment analysis and head bolt torqueing procedure. We may be reinventing the wheel, but it's worth it if there is no already existing thread in the How To section that is truly accurate and credible.

[Dimitris]

Hi,

 

I know that many things have been written and believe me, I tried to read and understand all the previous posts about this topic (TPS adjustment). My knowledge on these things are very poor and I started reading the book named "Guzziology" some time ago so as to start understanding better. To cut a long story short, I read on the Guzziology book the paragraph about the TPS adjustment and since I haven't got the VDST yet, the only way is to use a multimeter, which my mechanic possesses. So on the Guzziology book things appear to be easier (or it seems to me). The following are written:

 

Locate the TPS and pull back the protective rubber cap without disconnecting the multipin wire connector. This will expose three wires. Connect a negative lead of a digital multimeter to the battery's ground. Attach the sharp probe tip of the positive lead to one of the three wires as follows: Negative--Ground, Positive--Black/Purple.

With the ignition on and kill switch in the run position, the reading should be 500+/-25 millivolts.

 

 

As far as the indication, since I read the forum's previous posts, I know that it would be better to be positioned at 521 mV.

 

My Questions are:

1) Since the engine is stopped, according to the forum's draft, shouldn't the TPS show 150 mV, instead of 500+/-25, that is written in Guzziology?

2)If I follow the Guzziology procedure, is it enough? Will it be complete?

 

 

Thank you!!

 

Dimitris

[Guest ratchethack]

Dimitris, my version of Guzziology (First edition, ver. 5.3) is pretty clear on this (p. 7-50). It says:

"...attain a reading of 150 millivolts with the throttle plate completely closed (not just against the idle speed stop screw) and the linkage between throttle bodies disconneted."

This means that the throttle "cross rod" linkage is disconnected, and the idle speed screw on the RHS throttle body is fully screwed out.

 

The 500 +/- 25 mV setting refers to the reading with the throttle linkage connected at idle -- regardless of engine running or stopped, and at an idle setting that will give (IIRC) 1150-1200 RPM. This is the way I set mine after first establishing the base setting above. For consistency, I always recommend engine not running.

 

NOTE: The reading at the TPS is taken at top and bottom pins. It will vary within 10-20 mV with the state of the battery.

 

Hope this helps.

[Dimitris]

OK, understood. My Guzziology version is 6.0 As it is written in my book, the first thing to do is balance the cylinders (won't describe the procedure) and afterwards comes the TPS adjustment, as I described it above. So, in my description, nothing is said about disconnecting the rod or about the idle screw. So, assuming that my cylinders are balanced, do you think it will be enough if I follow the procedure I described above? (ignition key open, kill switch open, engine not running, connect the multimeter to the TPS, set to 521mV)

[Guest ratchethack]

Without knowing the history of the bike and how it was set up previously -- or understanding exactly how it's running now, I would not presume to say if setting the TPS "connected" as you've described, would be "enough".

 

Anything I say about what I'd do is going to automatically be WRONG according to Guzziology (but then, I think Guzziology might be WRONG according to Guzziology!), according to nearly everyone (likely many here), according to Aunt Alice, and also according to Aunt Alice's dog, Faucher.

 

But if it were my '03 V11 and it was running well after properly setting valves and balancing TBs, and pulling strong from bottom up without hesitation or hiccup, and if the plugs read a nice even tan-to-chocolate (with the characteristic V11 black "shadow" on the exhaust valve side of the heads on each plug tower), I'd set the TPS to ~525 mV (connected) and see how she runs for a few days. If she runs as well as mine does after every time I've done the above, I'd be about as happy as a clam, and I'd be unlikely to fret about it, possibly -- nay! probably -- for years. But o' course, that's just me.

 

Have fun.

[Dimitris]

Thank you! You were explicit.

[Guest ratchethack]

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