Newbie Intro - Newbie Question -Tip Over Valve

[JackBoots]

Hello!, Newbie here, my name is Jack, from the Boston area, riding bikes of all sorts since 1985. Mostly BMW's. Motorcyles are my main transportation. I ride every day I can.

 

I just put a deposit down on my first Guzzi, a 2002 Lemans. It has Guzzi pipes, Hepco bags, bar risers, loud horns and best of all the previous owner painted it BLACK. When I 1st saw it, for a second it honestly took my breath away. Just gorgeous! I don't think I've ever seen a bike that I like the look of more.

 

I've been reading alot about the tank suck issue. Can anyone direct me to a photo of the tip over valve? I'm not sure what it looks like. If and when this happens to me, I'd like to be ready. Either that or, are there any diagrams on line?

 

Also, could anyone direct me to place where I could buy a good service manual for the bike?

 

Thanks, this forum has already been a wealth of information for me.

 

-Jack

[waspp]

Hello Jack,

 

Congrats on your LeMans purchase thats a great bike! If you get the time ride out to Sturbridge on Sep 9th for the IMOC rally, there will be lots of Guzzis to drool over! As for your questions you might try EBAY for a owners or shop manuel, I managed to find a nice owners manuel for the Rosso a while back and the price was right.

 

The tip over valve is a small black plastic fitting in the vent lines which attach to the underside of the tank. You shouldn't have running problems if you have the internal fuel pump the tank will simply build pressure. Before i zip tied mine in the upright position my tank would shink dramatically under the tank suck. Until you get to it just open the cap once in a while, especially on hot days with low fuel level.

 

 

Hal

 

 

http://www.imocusa.com/rally2007.htm

[JackBoots]

Hello Jack,

 

 

The tip over valve is a small black plastic fitting in the vent lines which attach to the underside of the tank. You shouldn't have running problems if you have the internal fuel pump the tank will simply build pressure. Before i zip tied mine in the upright position my tank would shink dramatically under the tank suck. Until you get to it just open the cap once in a while, especially on hot days with low fuel level.

Hal

http://www.imocusa.com/rally2007.htm

 

 

At this point I have noticed an occasional swooosh when I open up my gas tank. Not all the time but sometimes after sitting for a while in the heat on the side stand. Is this an issue or normal? I have had no running problems and usually when I stop riding, I have no swoosh.

 

Also, with 10k miles on the bike, do you think that the tranny spring that breaks is ok on my bike? I would think it would have broken by now no?

 

Thanks!

[JackBoots]

Hi Jack--

 

With an '02 Le Mans you should have an external fuel pump mounted ahead of the frame near the oil cooler & horns. I've not had any fuel flow problems, with either vacuum or pressure inside the tank. According to the factory V11 Sport Shop Manual, my rollover (tipover) valve was indeed inverted. If I remember correctly, it was originally installed long end up and should be the opposite.

 

One thing you should check, though RE fuel flow is the main braided steel fuel line above the LH cylinder going from the petcock to the fuel pump. As delivered new, mine was touching the cylinder head = hot. I held it up 1" or so off the head with an additional cable tie.

 

I've got ~22K on my '02 V11 Le Mans Tenni and it's been a great machine! No shift return spring breakage.

 

So your valve was installed by the factory upside down?? Wow, I will find that and check it out.

I'll also check on the fuel line. Thanks for the advice.

 

500 miles over the weekend, and so far loving it!

[huub]

 

Also, could anyone direct me to place where I could buy a good service manual for the bike?

 

Thanks, this forum has already been a wealth of information for me.

 

-Jack

 

On this site http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/loopframe.htm you can find several workshop manuals.

 

Huub

[Ryland3210]

So your valve was installed by the factory upside down?? Wow, I will find that and check it out.

I'll also check on the fuel line. Thanks for the advice.

 

500 miles over the weekend, and so far loving it!

 

This topic has been discussed at length before, but I thought it worthwhile to share something I learned just now.

 

When I had my bike in to a dealer for service, he did me the favor of taking off the tipover valve. It had earlier caused the dreaded "tank suck", even though tie wrapped in the correct position, although it was better.

 

Out of curiousity, I tested it by finding which way it would permit flow into the tank to prevent a vacuum from forming.

 

I could only get air to flow through the valve one out of four possible ways. That is with the end which has the hose barb farthest from the valve body upwards, with air going downwards through the valve. It means that not only does the valve have to be held vertical with the long end upwards, but the tank connection has to be to the bottom of the valve, and the vent hose to the top, the opposite of what my intuition would have told me, and nothing like the way the bike was delivered to me.

 

This valve's designed orientation is very strange for its application. Now I know how to put it back on so it can do its job. That is, assuming it is working properly.

[FalcoLion]

This topic has been discussed at length before, but I thought it worthwhile to share something I learned just now.

 

When I had my bike in to a dealer for service, he did me the favor of taking off the tipover valve. It had earlier caused the dreaded "tank suck", even though tie wrapped in the correct position, although it was better.

 

Out of curiousity, I tested it by finding which way it would permit flow into the tank to prevent a vacuum from forming.

 

I could only get air to flow through the valve one out of four possible ways. That is with the end which has the hose barb farthest from the valve body upwards, with air going downwards through the valve. It means that not only does the valve have to be held vertical with the long end upwards, but the tank connection has to be to the bottom of the valve, and the vent hose to the top, the opposite of what my intuition would have told me, and nothing like the way the bike was delivered to me.

 

This valve's designed orientation is very strange for its application. Now I know how to put it back on so it can do its job. That is, assuming it is working properly.

 

 

If anyone wants to chime in on important subjects like this it would be a good idea to attach pictures. What you are saying contradicts with Kevin H info as well as V11 manual pictures. If I misunderstood what you're saying its because no pictures where attached.

 

In any case I have checked my Tipover/Rollover valve and if I refer to V11 Manual (see attached image) it was installed upside down from the factory . I guess Luigi who was screwing my bike together had too much grappa that day.

 

Question for anyone who disconnected Carbon Canister (#4 in the above picture). Did you just put a platic T and conected the the hose that is coming out from the bottom to the T or did you just completely threw it out and just connected the hose that is coming from Tipover valve to Intake manifold coupling straight?

 

The only question I have (if someone can suggest/help) is about those f*ed up clips. Can these stupid clips be replaced with regular worn type hose clamps? If they cannot (I don't know why they wouldn't be) is there a tool I can get to put them back on and where can I get it?

 

Thanks

Vlad

[Ryland3210]

 

If anyone wants to chime in on important subjects like this it would be a good idea to attach pictures. What you are saying contradicts with Kevin H info as well as V11 manual pictures. If I misunderstood what you're saying its because no pictures where attached.

 

In any case I have checked my Tipover/Rollover valve and if I refer to V11 Manual (see attached image) it was installed upside down from the factory . I guess Luigi who was screwing my bike together had too much grappa that day.

 

Question for anyone that disconnected Carbon Canister (#4 in the above picture). Did you just put a platic T and conected the the hose that is coming out from the bottom to the T or did you just completely threw it out and just connected the hose that is coming from Tipover valve to Intake manifold coupling straight?

 

The only question I have (if someone can suggest/help) is about those f*ed up clips. Can these stupid clips be replaced with regular worn type hose clamps? If they cannot (I don't know why they wouldn't be) is there a tool I can get to put them back on and where can I get it?

 

Thanks

Vlad

 

There is no reason I can think of why ordinary worm clamps cannot be used. In fact I have been doing that with no problem. There is a tool for the cheap clips, but personally, I wouldn't bother. It's a nuisance to get them off as well.

 

According to my test results, the valve as shown in your drawing is connected properly. However, it must be oriented upside down relative to the drawing.

 

I would have been glad to supply a picture, except that my dealer took the valve out.

[FalcoLion]

There is no reason I can think of why ordinary worm clamps cannot be used. In fact I have been doing that with no problem. There is a tool for the cheap clips, but personally, I wouldn't bother. It's a nuisance to get them off as well.

 

According to my test results, the valve as shown in your drawing is connected properly. However, it must be oriented upside down relative to the drawing.

 

I would have been glad to supply a picture, except that my dealer took the valve out.

 

How did your dealer connected two ends of your hoses? Did he use plastic connector?

 

Thanks for the answer about the clamps. The drawing is not mine but its from MG V11 Workshop manual. So again your answer is somewhat contradicting to the picture. If its going to be oriented upside down then it will be connected wrong. Besides the hoses are to short to allow to loop it upside down. I have traced the line to the canister and I clearly saw it connected the wrong way. Can someone else who doesn't have problems with tank suck shoot the picture?

 

Here is my picture and how its connected now. It was reversed before. Can someone chime in and confirm if its connected properly

 

[Ryland3210]

How did your dealer connected two ends of your hoses? Did he use plastic connector?

 

Thanks for the answer about the clamps. The drawing is not mine but its from MG V11 Workshop manual. So again your answer is somewhat contradicting to the picture. If its going to be oriented upside down then it will be connected wrong. Besides the hoses are to short to allow to loop it upside down. I have traced the line to the canister and I clearly saw it connected the wrong way. Can someone else who doesn't have problems with tank suck shoot the picture?

 

Here is my picture and how its connected now. It was reversed before. Can someone chime in and confirm if its connected properly

 

 

1. My dealer used a simple male to male brass hose barb connector, and didn't bother with clamps of any kind. I recommend using clamps.

2. According to my test results, you have it connected properly, same as shown in the workshop manual, but it needs to have the connection to the tank pointing straight down. I can see that the hose to the tank is too short to do that, so it should be replaced with a longer one. I cut the hose to the canister and spliced in another hose barb connector with two hose clamps near the throttle bodies. This was so the next time I wanted to take the tank off, I would not have to go through contortions to detach it from the valve up under the tank.

[FalcoLion]

1. My dealer used a simple male to male brass hose barb connector, and didn't bother with clamps of any kind. I recommend using clamps.

2. According to my test results, you have it connected properly, same as shown in the workshop manual, but it needs to have the connection to the tank pointing straight down. I can see that the hose to the tank is too short to do that, so it should be replaced with a longer one. I cut the hose to the canister and spliced in another hose barb connector with two hose clamps near the throttle bodies. This was so the next time I wanted to take the tank off, I would not have to go through contortions to detach it from the valve up under the tank.

 

Pictures would speak a 1000 words. Now you are saying that you cut the hose to the canister and spliced another piece in. That still would not help to mount Tipover Valve straight because the hose to the tank would still be the same. Did you mean to say that you have added length to the portion of the hose that goes between the tank and the Tipover Valve? If you did wouldn't you have a problem with kinking the hose?

 

Also it would be nice if someone else can chime in. My question about the canister is still unanswered (see my above post).

[Ryland3210]

Pictures would speak a 1000 words. Now you are saying that you cut the hose to the canister and spliced another piece in. That still would not help to mount Tipover Valve straight because the hose to the tank would still be the same. Did you mean to say that you have added length to the portion of the hose that goes between the tank and the Tipover Valve? If you did wouldn't you have a problem with kinking the hose?

 

Also it would be nice if someone else can chime in. My question about the canister is still unanswered (see my above post).

 

Yes, I believe you would have to add length to the portion of the hose that goes between the tank and the Tipover valve.

 

You might also have to add length to the portion of the hose that goes between the Tipover valve and canister.

 

I think it would be possible to avoid kinking the hose if you route it carefully. It has a small diameter compared to its outside diameter, so it should easy to avoid kinking. This type of hose is readily available at auto parts stores.

 

It may be that no one else has come up with this analysis and therefore there are no pictures out there. Later this week, when my camera is back in service, I'll take a picture of a diagram for you.

[FalcoLion]

Yes, I believe you would have to add length to the portion of the hose that goes between the tank and the Tipover valve.

 

You might also have to add length to the portion of the hose that goes between the Tipover valve and canister.

 

I think it would be possible to avoid kinking the hose if you route it carefully. It has a small diameter compared to its outside diameter, so it should easy to avoid kinking. This type of hose is readily available at auto parts stores.

 

It may be that no one else has come up with this analysis and therefore there are no pictures out there. Later this week, when my camera is back in service, I'll take a picture of a diagram for you.

 

Pictures would be nice. I see that you are located not too far (relatively speaking) from me. I do ride in Bear mountains all the time and go thru Warwick all the time. If the weather is good I will be riding this Sunday. Give me a call or email sometime and maybe we can ride together. I have a riding buddy who lives in Slothburg so we meet at Orange top dinner in Tuxedo all the time on Sunday morning. We used to meet at Red Apple but I am sure you know that this dump closed last year

 

Vlad

[Ryland3210]

Pictures would be nice. I see that you are located not too far (relatively speaking) from me. I do ride in Bear mountains all the time and go thru Warwick all the time. If the weather is good I will be riding this Sunday. Give me a call or email sometime and maybe we can ride together. I have a riding buddy who lives in Slothburg so we meet at Orange top dinner in Tuxedo all the time on Sunday morning. We used to meet at Red Apple but I am sure you know that this dump closed last year

 

Vlad

 

Great!

 

I know the Orange Top diner. If you're coming west from there, we could also meet in Edenville at the Country Dream just north of county route one on at the intersection with Blooms Corners Road. This Sunday, the Polar Bear Club meets in Port Jervis. I plan on getting over there late morning. I'll find out where it is and send you an email.

[Ryland3210]

Here are pix of the tipover valve layout and the splice I put in to make tank removal easier. You can see the two hose clamps I used on the brass male to male hose barb connector. It's in the center of the picture, just below the gas hose with the red plastic "quick" disconnect. Hope this helps.