Lemon Laws & Moto Guzzi

[cycdude6]

CycDude:

 

I have an 04 Billy Bob, too. I also work at a Guzzi dealership. I'd encourage you to keep the bike, for the following reasons:

 

1) They're extremely satisfying motorcycles once sorted out. They're a combination of looks, handling, durability, and real-world street performance that many of us like enough that we will grow old with it.

 

2) The problems you are experiencing are typical of the model but easily fixed. Age also is part of it. It has sat a dealership or in a warehouse for nearly 4 years before you purchased it. The fork seals, for example, are likely victims of sitting around too much. I'm not trying to escuse MG's part in the problems, just to point out that age has likely contributed to them.

 

3) Lemon Law claims are ultimately unsatisfying to the consumer in many cases. Our dealership (Moto International, in Seattle) has experienced 3 or 4 such claims and we have even assisted the customers in filing them in two cases when Moto Guzzi or Aprilia (the brands we carry) was clearly not trying to solve the problem in good faith. These latter two claims were "successful" in that the consumers got refunds. Even so, the process caused more anguish than they ever thought it would.

 

4) If you decide to keep it, you will find plenty of help here. It sounds as if your dealer is willing to do his part, too. I can help, too, if you need it.

 

 

Thank you all for the outpouring of support. I am cured. No more whining from me!

 

John S.

[Ryland3210]

Thank you all for the outpouring of support. I am cured. No more whining from me!

 

John S.

 

Two ideas. It's a real long shot, but perhaps your dealer will give you a complementary demo to borrow while you're waiting for the repairs, if he has one. In comparison, bike rentals don't come cheap, typically $100-$140/day. My guess is that MG would not reimburse him for this, so it could be a burden to him because of insurance issues.

 

Second, I just installed a Sigma bicycle speedometer, model 1606L, while I'm waiting for a speedo cable. $25 for this upscale version at Richard's (the real name is the commonly known contraction of that name, but evidently the software censorship program views it as foul language!) Sporting goods. They also sell units for $15!. The difference is features and backlighting. I went for the extra $10 in case I need the backlighting. The backlighting turns on for 3 seconds when you push any button on the unit. It took about an hour to install. Battery powered, no need to connect to the bike's electrical system. The Sigma website has a dealer locator. There seem to be lots of them. It's so neat, I plan to keep it even after the speedo cable is replaced. It has a clock, trip time, trip distance, total distance, average speed, maximum speed, etc. It has a programmable wheel circumference, so the accuracy can be dialed in. FYI, mine is 1820 mm. According to Sigma, it's good to 300 MPH. If you decide to go this way, I can help with installation hints.

[Van]

Thank you all for the outpouring of support. I am cured. No more whining from me!

 

John S.

 

And another Guzzista is created.........

Great work form.....

Cheers

Van

[pete roper]

Whining can be very therapeutic . The good thing is to not STOP at the whining stage but to pull one's head out of one's arse and actually DO something about problems.

 

Having a disinterested dealer or one who won't admit he doesn't know can be a real issue. None of us know everything! Good God! I'd be completely stuffed if I didn't have a network of people I could bounce gnarly problems off! You aren't alone there. the local Guzzi *dealer* near me sells just about every other Italian brand and KTM. His interest in Guzzi is virtually non-existant! and I've seen some true horrors come out of his workshop but he has a big, shiny, showroom with lotsa motorbikes in it while I have a work area full of busted up old roundfin parts, oil drums, fag-ends and broken 16M computers I also tend to fart and swear a lot which upsets some of the more delicate souls in the motorbike world

 

I only wish I could convince the importer to give me a dealership, but there again at the moment I work four or five hours a day and am effectively semi-retired. Why would I want to get into something as thankless as selling Guzzis and bust my arse 60 hours a week to compete with some chinless twat in a tiny market?

 

Nah. I'll stay being the fat bastard you take your Guzzi to when nobody else has managed to get it to work. I also don't have to be polite to dropkicks and can behave like an irracible when the mood takes me, which is most of the time

 

pete

[Ryland3210]

Whining can be very therapeutic . The good thing is to not STOP at the whining stage but to pull one's head out of one's arse and actually DO something about problems.

 

Having a disinterested dealer or one who won't admit he doesn't know can be a real issue. None of us know everything! Good God! I'd be completely stuffed if I didn't have a network of people I could bounce gnarly problems off! You aren't alone there. the local Guzzi *dealer* near me sells just about every other Italian brand and KTM. His interest in Guzzi is virtually non-existant! and I've seen some true horrors come out of his workshop but he has a big, shiny, showroom with lotsa motorbikes in it while I have a work area full of busted up old roundfin parts, oil drums, fag-ends and broken 16M computers I also tend to fart and swear a lot which upsets some of the more delicate souls in the motorbike world

 

I only wish I could convince the importer to give me a dealership, but there again at the moment I work four or five hours a day and am effectively semi-retired. Why would I want to get into something as thankless as selling Guzzis and bust my arse 60 hours a week to compete with some chinless twat in a tiny market?

 

Nah. I'll stay being the fat bastard you take your Guzzi to when nobody else has managed to get it to work. I also don't have to be polite to dropkicks and can behave like an irracible when the mood takes me, which is most of the time

 

pete

 

Hey Pete,

Are you braggin' or complaining?

John

[badmotogoozer]

There seem to be two groups of Guzzi's - the ones who never have any problems at all and the ones who have everything go wrong.

 

Sadly mine belongs in the latter group. I've had more go wrong with my bike than I've heard of anyone else. This time she held together for 1700kms before splitting both header pipes a month ago.

 

It is likely that my Guz and I will be parting ways in the spring. I've had enough. I'm already loooongggg past my tolerance for "sorting".

 

Hope yours sorts better than mine has...

 

cheers,

 

Rj

[cycdude6]

Sorry to hear that, but I do know how you feel....Will you get another Guzzi?

 

John

 

It is likely that my Guz and I will be parting ways in the spring. I've had enough. I'm already loooongggg past my tolerance for "sorting".

 

Hope yours sorts better than mine has...

 

cheers,

 

Rj

 

 

An update on the Ballabio: from Wagner Motorsports Service Dept.

 

Fuel tank suck ----improperly installed vent filter

Bad kill switch ---replaced

leaky forks ---seal replaced

battery drain in 45 mins of operation ----battery replaced (I hope that's it and not the rectifier)

parts fell off kickstand ---parts replaced

low fuel light doesn't work. ---broken wire, not connected to harness

[Ryland3210]

That's good progress!

If the battery was the original, and has been allowed to discharge God knows how many times, and for heaven knows how long, it would not be surprising that it has lost its capacity. Now the questions are: what is the date code on the replacement battery? Is it fresh? was it charged properly? If it's been hanging around a shelf and allowed to stay in a discharged state for months, it will have diminished capacity. Some batteries will be damaged if charged at more than 1/10 the amp-hour capacity. That's why Yuasa recommends only factory prepared batteries for this application.

 

Get ready for the speedo cable to fail, unless it's been replaced with the updated version. Maybe Wagner will be kind enough to get one on order and put it on his shelf so he has one the next time someone needs it. It's a real quick replacement, but I'm still waiting for Branchville Motors to get one. Not a huge investment for Wagner to make, until he gets reimbursed by MG for the warrantee cost when it happens.

 

As for me, the Sigma electonic speedo is working great while I wait. I can now confirm it works at least up to 89 MPH on the local back roads. I hope to test it over the ton this weekend!

[badmotogoozer]

Sorry to hear that, but I do know how you feel....Will you get another Guzzi?

 

John

 

It is likely that my Guz and I will be parting ways in the spring. I've had enough. I'm already loooongggg past my tolerance for "sorting".

 

Hope yours sorts better than mine has...

 

cheers,

 

Rj

 

 

Another Guzzi??? Not a chance. There's quirky and then there's POS.

 

The only big question is what the Hell I'm gonna replace it with...

 

Starting to think it's time to liquidate the bikes and get into a big sailboat before I end up married with ankle biters. This bike has not only put me off MG, but bikes in general.

 

Rj

[JackBoots]

I've had my 2002 Lemans for a month. I picked it up with 10,000 miles and now I have 12,000 miles.

I love the way the bike looks more than any other bike and it seriously puts a huge smile on my face every time I ride it. (when it decides to start that is)

I did my research and knew 2002 wasn't a good year, but I kind of hoped that by 10,000 miles the bugs had been sorted out by the previous owner. ( consignment sale, I never got to talk to him)

 

Problems in 2000 miles

 

Top over valve problems, yes..

rear shock leaking.. yes...

Odometer failure.. yes..

intermittently get nothing when I hit the start button... yes ( and I updated all the relays)...

pinging on hard throttle ..yes

leak on the right front side of the motor ..... yes ( that one REALLY bums me out)

 

Now I'm just waiting for the tranny spring and speedo cable to break.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do love this bike, but it really is unacceptable in this day and age for Guzzi to ship bikes like this, as a "kit bike to be sorted out" as someone here said. I read these posts and I feel like I'm reading about AMF Harley's. I keep waiting for someone to say "if I had to explain why, you wouldn't understand"

 

I feel really bad for cycdude6, all excited to have a beautiful new bike, and then to run into all those problems. I would be sick at heart. When you put your hard earned money down on a new bike, you have the expectation that it's new, your baby and if you take care of routine maintenance, will serve you well for a long time. I think if he's like me, he works many hours and doesn't want to wrench his own bike. Sure I do it whenever I can to save money, but I don't like doing it. I buy a bike to ride and enjoy and not worry about breaking down in the middle of nowhere. At this point, on a trip, I'd trust my old 1966 BMW more than the Guzzi.

 

How did the Guzzi marquee get its reputation for longevity anyway?

 

I don't think I could sell my Guzzi. I do love it and want to give it a chance. I guess it's like going out with a beautiful model with a drug problem. If she gets through rehab, everything will be OK

[steffen]

Just to share the opposite experience...

I have a 99 v11 sport (green). I got it this winter with 11000 km on the speedo. I now have put + 6000 km on it, and it has performed perfectly.

Not a single problem - except I had to buy some new tires (metz z6), because the old ones were worn out. I can live with that

 

Steffen, Denmark.

[Ryland3210]

I purchased my new leftover '04 at a huge discount. The timing was right. I knew about some of the reliability issues because I had researched this forum, so I was prepared for all the bugs except the seat interference with the battery, which I discovered myself. The dealer took care of that under warrantee. The only failure I've had in the year and one half I've owned it is the speedo cable, and low fuel warning lamp, which I knew were coming.

 

With the forward foot position controls I designed and made, I can ride all day in comfort, and the bike has always started without any problem. One thing I learned about starting is that it starts much quicker with the throttle opened slightly.

 

Since synchronizing the throttle bodies and calibrating the TPS, economy has jumped from 38 up to 41 mpg, which is not too bad.

 

I put an oil pressure gauge on as well. When warmed up, oil pressure will drop to 20 psi at an idle speed of 1150 RPM, and that is with 20W50 oil. When I took delivery, the bike was set to idle at 600, which is bad for the clutch, and oil pressure dropped practically out of sight. I would not go below 15W40 even in winter.

 

If you are worried about starting on a very cold morning, and have the bike in an unheated area, here's a trick from an old-timer: Back in the 70's, when it was not unusual for it to be minus 15 in the morning, I never had any problem starting my '63 Olds. I would put a 60 watt drop light under the oil pan controlled by a standard timer. The timer was set to turn on an hour or two before I needed to drive to work. That worked wonders, and the engine warmed up much faster as well. If the weather prediction was for 10 below or less, I would add a blanket draped over the engine. By the way, I used straight 40 weight all year round, and the engine had a 10:1 compression ratio. I still use the light bulb heater to help get my Jeep started to plow the driveway. It's amazing how well it works.

[mznyc]

Hi Cdude,

Sorry to hear about your problems.Hopefully you can resolve this directly with the dealer.

I have been one,sometimes it feels like the only one,who has been a naysayer of the indifference we get from Guzzi and some of the dealers in general(they all cant be MI or MPH)with problems that are related to lack of QC or design flaws from the factory.For the price we pay for these beauties,there should be no excuses for any of the multitude of problems that have occurred with the V11,too numerous to mention.It should be "sorry sir,we'll fix it right away,at no cost to you".I have a Scura that has had several bikes flywheels let loose and explode.Luckily no one has been hurt yet,but should it be addressed only when someone gets killed?Guzzi has known about the problem for years and hasn't even acknowledged it.

I just bought a VFR VTEC and it has had a history of electrical problems that Honda has recalled and fixed quickly,at no cost to the owner.Ive owned many Hondas with hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems.

Though some of us have had no problems with our bikes,way too many of us have.Unfortunately this may turn off a lot of us faithful to the brand if Guzzi doesn't wake up and respond to us.

[JackBoots]

Interesting Ebay item......

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Moto-Guzzi-...sspagenameZWDVW

[v11cafe]

Things can go bad to every motorcycle or car maker.Others react fast , and others like MG ...slooooow.

Guzzi is a small firm, and a very big name in motorcycle history. At 2004 they made 3800 bikes I think (Aprilia), and they celebrated 10000 bikes this year with help from Piaggio.

"There seem to be two groups of Guzzi's - the ones who never have any problems at all and the ones who have everything go wrong."

That is a true statement, but does not only apply to Guzzi, it"s true even for Hondas!!!!!!

My riding life is full of models by BMW and Guzzi.Most were super, trouble free, some were Lemons, but I was always

willing to fix them, because I love them so much, and I enjoy the special character they have.

Only two times, I bought a Yamaha and a Honda, and both were lemons.

The Yamaha TDM 850 93 model( bought it 1 year used) was leaking gas on my lap from the seams of the tank, and was weaving like hell at 160 km,

the sidestand valve that controls the engine start up decided when I was permited to ride the THING.....etc

Next lemon case the HONDA a Transalp V 650, bought it new at 2003 to save my Guzzi..s from city riding.

Second day in my garage there was a big oil stamp on the floor, haven"t seen such thing from any bmw or Guzzi.

Under warranty they fixed the front cylinder base gasket.

Fisrt time I rode the THING to a highway, it was burning unleaded like a V8 truck at 150 km!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I sold it in 4 months,....and don"t want to see it again.

Shit happens, but I prefer to be on a Guzzi when it happens, than paying money to fix a THING....